Gangrel_EU

Should have played the games a bit more... there was magic, orcs, trolls, elves, shapeshifters, dragons, vampires.

And that was in just the SNES version

*edit* I would actually like to promote Anne McCaffrey as the "this is how you write fantasy in a Science Fiction" setting. Most people actually call the Pern series of books (at least at the start) definite fantasy... however, you then discover the whole history of the planet and the people, and then it becomes a science fiction novel with *huge* fantasy overtones.

So how would you categorize Earthdawn and Shadowrun? Does the fact that they *are* in a shared world just at different "era's" make a difference into how you perceive the two?

Shadowrun by itself is *definitely* Science Fiction/Cyberpunk
Earthdawn by itself is *definitely* Fantasy

Yet they both cross over, have links back and forth and are part of a "cycle" with Earthdawn being the Fourth World, and Shadowrun being the Sixth World. They are only split by time.

To be honest, i kinda shot myself in the foot with that one... My 1st response when i thought about it was Shadowrun/Earthdawn (which sorry, does predate City of Heroes by MANY years)

Although no flying really in it... for that its Trinity/Abberant for me >.>

But then I guess that shows just how wide ranging the "comic" genre can be... it can hit everything it wants, and basically say "screw the rest, this is how it works *here*", with a lot of handwaving...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKekAjoLdI

trailer for the original....

Oooh yes, the magic influenced, western/asian art cross over, attacking with harps and riding unicorns.

They still kept some of it in the game...

Fantasy sells among the younger generation... i know i was a big buyer of fantasy books when i was younger, but i also read a of Science fiction (Anne McCaffrey, Harry Harrison spring to mind, although that expanded when i got to uni quite a lot)

Just keep an eye open for Shadowrun Online, and Cyberpunk 2020. Yes, there is also Shadowrun Returns, but that is a follow on from the original Shadowrun computer games (and apparently it aims to wrap up the plot lines from the SNES and Megadrive/Genesis original games).

Cyberpunk 2020 is being done by CD Projekt RED (of Witcher fame) as an MMO (oooh yes please), and there are others coming out.

The hard thing though is that players (maybe not you and I) seem to prefer the "semi AFK style" of being able to tab-target for MMO's. Yes, there are 3rd/1st person shooters out there, like Planetside, Tribes, Global Agenda but they hit a different niche (the shooter fans).

*shrugs*

Oh, and lets not forget that Anarchy Online (11 years old) is *still* running (somehow) and that is a sci-fi MMO.

One of the problems that at least my friends have with science fiction is that because it is normally set in "our universe", people want to know how stuff works. Yes, we can keep on handhaving it away with unobtanium and the like, but it is then when you need a *very* well written MMO.

However, with fantasy when asked "how does it work", if you say the special words "its magic"... people let it slide. Why? Because its *magic*. Something that you cannot describe easily (nor choose to).

Can magic and Science fiction co-exist in the same world? Quite possibly; it does in Guild Wars 2 and World of Warcraft...

One sci-fi game to keep an eye out for that is also on the horizon is Defiance (from Trion). It is a sci-fi MMOFPS style game, that will also be running with a TV series.

((actually, come to think of it, why arent there more Science fiction live action shows on TV running? or if they do, why do they seem to get cancelled earlier/faster than the generic fantasy ones?))

Like a bunch of whining kids? (j/k)

Bendy Bob and Brain Remover i believe their names were.

Although for me, the real stars were the rats

Wanted, with James McAvoy and Morgan Freeman.

Not a bad film overall. I enjoyed it (not to mention as well that i do enjoy the keyboard smash face scene....)

I was going to post a gif of it up... but i think the swearing would get it removed.

Instead, here is the link http://iruntheinternet.com/057

I will just expand on this one.

Not everyone is an angel and reports everything that they see that is wrong in the game. There are people out there who will keep the "advantage exploit" for themselves, to use and abuse (or even sell) for their own gain later on.

Sure, the internal testing should catch most of the large scale stuff, however, when it gets down to the nitty gritty, then you have to rely on the masses.

*shrugs* Hell, Eve Online had an exploit giving materials away for free for almost 5 years before it was fixed (iwhat caused it, how it slipped through the gaps, how much of an impact it had here)

I dunno, i do feel that it is semi appropriate... especially if you have spent *hours* doing it (some form of punishment should be dealt out)

Darkfall Online (a skill based sandbox MMO, where you had to repeat actions to increase your skill in doing X (so running improved your run skill, swimming improved your swim, getting hit by weapons improved your toughness etc etc)

Players would make their own towns, and then have "blood walls" where you just stood there for hours on end for players to hit you, or you to hit them, all whilst running into a wall.

How to improve your skill fast and easy.

Unfortunately, Aventurin (the developers) didn't do anything about it... and as this was the *fastest* way to improve your skills, it meant that those players were far far overpowered compared to the players who played "normally".

Infact, it could well be called a challenge to play the game normally, and not try to afk exploit stuff (including gathering etc etc). Sure, the game never grabbed me by the nuts to make me play it, but if you *do not* punish people for cheating or exploiting, then players will take the piss.

And they do.

I was going off a UK website (which.co.uk), I knew I should have made that clearer.

Slazenger, it is worthwhile to wait to see what the actual *official* refund scheme will be (and how it will all be treated, when you are due to receive etc etc).

NCsoft have stated that they will get in touch with us.

Ultrahumanite posted up a very similar email reply to what my GF received when she enquired about the refunds (and my GF sent the email the day of the announcement, received it the following afternoon (or thereabouts)

((Side note: I feel that this is the *official* line right now concerning refunds right *now* as it is exactly the same as my GF's email (different GM though i believe))

If you are doing this, make sure that the transaction isnt all that old either... depending on the card company that you are with, you *should* have between 30 and 120 days to dispute a transaction (i believe that this is due to how often statements are sent out etc etc).

If any of the transactions are past the limit according to the card scheme you are with (Visa, Mastercard, Diners Club, AMEX) then you can still try for a chargeback... but the chances of it then working are very very slim.

Depends on how bad the exploit actually is.

Of course, if i managed to swipe all the stuff from other peoples's bank slots with an "exploit" i shouldn't get banned should i... because it is, after all, a developer mistake.

Course, everything that goes wrong in a game, no matter what, is a coding mistake of some form or another...

The reason why i asked, is with which option do you get refunded?

1) All months past the cut off date at a pro rata rate (minus your two bonus months, as they are "free")
2) All months past the cut off date pro-rata (including your two bonus months)
3) The percentage of your unused sub fee (not including your bonus 2 months)
4) The percentage of your unused sub fee (including your bonus 2 months)

I seem to remember reading on the forums earlier on this year about someone who said that they were subbed to somepoint in 2014, due to accidentally buying 2 lots of 12+2 subscriptions on their account.

Now *that* one will be interesting to resolve (well, at least for the 1st 12+2, as the 2nd part is just a complete transaction to refund.).

*shrugs* These things need to be resolved, and i would rather they resolve it *properly* and take their time over it (and with Paragon Studio's trying to get the best for us) instead of just .

Hell, for all we know, it could well be $15/month to be refunded, even if you took advantage of multimonth deals... its a possiblity (and possibly the easiest method to do it)

And that is assuming that there would have been no negotiating on the reimbursement package either between Paragon Studios and NCsoft.

If there had been a discussion between the 2 parties, then it would not have necessarily been a shock announcement on the 30th August.

However, from the developer responses, it *has* been a shock result.

BTW, how do you think the 6+1 months/12+2 (and those who bought multiples there of) should be refunded? How about the monthly stipend. In my mind, they are part of the subscription, and something should be said for that... AFAIK, their system has no way of tracking which set of points you have used to buy stuff from the Paragon Market... so you could have dropped $60 in points at the start of freedom, and just lived on your stipends. Which points did you spend? are you entitled to a refund on the $60 that you spent 10months ago?

THOSE questions to me, require some discussion between the management and the developers to resolve. If had all been in play at the start, then i feel that Zwill and Freitag were liars to the playerbase saying that the game was healthy.

I don't think that you would like that, but that is what they would be.

They have not given us *any* indication that this happened though... so I am very very heavily inclined to believe that the discussions running at the moment, are *not* just to reimburse the subscription fee's but also any unused points.

Personally, i would rather have a single email detailing us everything that is happening, and how it would be happening, instead of getting several emails and wondering if i was missing email 3 of 8....

Just to point out that NCsoft had *no* dealings with the final TR event. That was all arranged by Destination Games. They started working on it when they got the announcement, They wanted to go out with a bang (and the blowing up of a planet). So they did it.

However, the details of that were *not* made public right away... and infact, up until the final day, there was no real information about how the game was going to end, apart from that it was going to be "big".

You cannot blame NCsoft for not saying anything about the TR closure, because it was *not* on their hands. Same with the event that CoX will do. That will be up to the CoX developers and *not* the NCsoft suits (unless of course it involves blowing up the NCsoft head offices.. .then i think they might try to stop that from happening )

In terms of the subs winding down, it was easier for CoX to do... there were however *no* points (nor stipeds) to refund.

Now I take a slightly different view on this one. Due to how the link between us and Zwill et al, they told us as soon as they found out.

*shrugs* To be honest, there are no real proper ways to announce the shuttering of a studio/company. Everyone gets hurt, some people just dont read the email, others hear via word of mouth.

Hell, for all we know, Zwill/Posi/War Witch etc could have heard rumblings of it a few months ago, and yet 30th August was the actual confirmation date, and they were just hoping for it not to be happening (or it was actually due end of September/October for all we know).

*shrugs* We will never know...

Well, not unless we get a Delorian, hit 88mph and put spy camera's in all the necessary rooms that is.

Definite correlation, but not always true though... I hate the PvP in CoX, although i will PvP in Eve Online and GW....

I would just like to state that the amount of money that CoX brings in is *equivalent* to 55-60K players @ $15/month.

For all we know, it could actually be 30K players, all spending $15/month on sub, and $15/month on points...

You mean, kill off one of their cash cows? Sure, it had a bad quarter, but until we see the next quarter, it is hard to see if it is just a one quarter blip.

And to be honest, would you *honestly* kill off a title that was still bringing in a fair chunk of change, and would more than likely reduce your profits permanently if it wasn't there?

Think about it, if it *wasnt* for Aion, they would have been instead of $6million in the red, they would have instead been quite possibly -$40million in the red (or there abouts).

And there is *no way in hell* that CoX could cover that kind of loss (although the release of GW2 would definately help with the figures next quarter).

To be honest, Lineage 2 would have been a better title to axe, although that only brought in roughly $16million last quarter.

One thing i just noticed though... the increase in Lineage revenue is fairly close to the *decrease* in Aion revenue (give or take roughly $1million)

I thought that Paragon Studios were the ones responsible for the Market place and *not* NCsoft *shrugs* Seeing as it was Paragon Studio's doing the work, why would NCsoft try to force Paragon Studios to ship it outside?

Will give you this one... it was badly done. Especially for the EU players, who ended up loosing a *lot* of play time in comparison to the US playerbase. However, part of that fault can also lay at the feet of Paragon Studios as well.

Hmm, but Trion has the advantage on this one as they are also the publishers. When Paragon Studio's screw up, they will tell us about it. NCsoft also generally try to tell us about when stuff will be down (normally via the launcher granted, but they still try to tell us about stuff...), and to be honest, any news from NCsoft *should* also be posted on the CoX pages/forums if it affects us (because, to be honest, not everyone goes and reads the news on the launcher).

But beyond that? What information have they withheld from us that should have been public? I am sure that there is an incident out there, but i honestly cannot remember what it is.

It has been incestuous for many years, with developers/coders/Community Managers going round in circles over the years.

Scott Jennings (Lum The Mad if you remember who he is) for example... he was a player originally of several different MMO's (ultima Online, Everquest, Asherons Call etc etc).

2001: Started working for Mythic Entertainment (database programmer) on Dark Age of Camelot.
2006: Jumped over to NCsoft a few years later (working on an unnamed MMO... complained about TR over the years etc etc).
2008: Got made redundant from NCsoft during refocusing of the company, then worked on another game.
2010: Went back to NCsoft as a contractor/full time employee (i believe to work on anti RMT stuff for them.
2012: Guess what, just been made redundant *again!*

He is just one person who springs to mind... Sanya Weathers (Community for *many* different games/companies over the years) is another example of how incestuous it can be... Bill Roper is another.

Yep, you tend to see a flow/migration of people between companies with very few actually breaking *into* the industry naturally. It is a clique to say the least.

Stephen "ROckjaw" Reid is another ex NCsoft person who has done the rounds with several companies over the years...He has quite a resume to be honest... although I wish him the best at Gazillion with Marvel Heroes.

The problem is that NCsoft would have already received their monies for the games on the shelf. The typical chain of retail runs like this:

Publisher (NCsoft)
Distributer
Retailer.

So it is up the retailer to pull any copies off the shelf, and then try to get the money back from the distributer, who then sends the copies back to NCsoft for a refund.

*edit* Kitsune is probably right about the store refunding the money you paid for the game back to you... As long as you bought the game recently from them.

*HOWEVER* I do believe that there is also a "shelf life" for the titles, so if the shop bought it in 3 years ago, and it is still on the shelf... chances are the distributer will not take it back. Rules vary according to distributer, but i believe that most will only take them back up to 6 months after purchase... (trying to remember back to when i worked for Gamestation).

Nope, that would classify it was discontinued. If NCsoft just did *nothing* with the game, and let it die a long slow death, and no updates (nor even servers for it) with no official "we are stopping this service" announcement, then yes, it could classify as abandonware.

*HOWEVER* that does not mean that it is now in the public domain. The company and creators still retain copyright over the title, unless they choose to no longer exercise their right.