Frosticus
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Posts
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Quote:I just looked at the title of the thread. i didn't notice it stated "in addition to what we know". Incidentally, my opinion of what constitutes a meaningful amount of "end game" probably differs from the devs' view. In fact I know it does.Originally Posted by Oliin
Isn't that a confirmed bit of GR? Silly thing to put on a wish list of features if you know it's coming
Well if those zones fall under the criteria I listed then they are already cold, dead, and decaying.Quote:You can pry the Shadow Shard and Dark Astoria from my cold, dead, decaying fingers
Incidentally WBT DA and Shard revamp!
Look at it another way, the time spent on a zone revamp can do one of several things.
1. be wasted
2. be better spent doing something else
3. further dilute the small player base
4. be so good they create a new hub effectively killing an existing one
Think of it as trimming the fat so that CoX can emerge as a faster, more efficient game.
Finally, I'm pretty sure GR will drop the same time as a new issue, whether it is technically that issue or not is pretty irrelevant from a consumer standpoint, so one or more of the things I listed should be "free", but better dam well be done by the time GR hits heh. -
you know what they say about open mike night right? It's open to anyone.
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Looking at the build you posted I have to wonder why no iceblast or BiB?
Why stone cages and stone prison instead of quicksand?
I also say nay to chilling embrace.
You should squeeze in about another 10% global rech. A single long power activation at the wrong time and your domination will drop with how you have it now.
Powerboost earthquake whenever possible. -
Quote:Ya, I know I certainly brought up that issue regarding Fissure as soon as I found out it was so tiny.Originally Posted by Mid_Boss
Dom fissure is also rather low damage and a small aoe. I've been on missions with it on a team and never hit more than three enemies at a time with it. Very disappointing. If it weren't for the sheer awesomeness of seismic smash I'd consider the set a wash and reroll with another secondary.
It seems incorrect to me, or at least illogical. Doms were just given the once over so everything meshed up nicely and all of their aoe's are quite large. Then came along /earth assault with its tiny Fissure and its tiny mudpots. I could understand if this was i7, but right on the heels of the dom revamp it is just confusing (to me at least).
The bit that I've tried /earth I felt it necessary to corner stack to actually be able to use mud and Fissure. Not only are spawns usually too spread for such tiny aoes, doms don't lend themselves well to compacting spawns (other than plant) as they have so many rooting powers and everything has such large aoes.
But ya, all of the melee attacks are great. Not great enough for me to stick with the set unfortunately, but...ymmv. -
Quote:This. Admittedly, the visuals lead to a perceptually feeling the redraw more, but it has always been there.Originally Posted by BrandX
Quills never negated the redraw of your spines to begin with.
Yes, you always saw your spines, buit your character still went through the "I'm redrawing animationm".
Another thing, Spines never got the treatment of the other sets. So redraw shouldn't be hurting your dps, like it does the other sets. (if memory serves me correctly).
That all said and done. One of the reasons I was happy to make my Spines/WP. I was thinking which set (it was between Regen and WP), and WP won out due to no clickiness of WP's part.
BrandX is exactly right that redraw plays no role on your dps output for spines as each power still retains the baked in draw time. Again, it was a bit easier to overlook with the way quills used to operate, but it really hasn't changed.
I haven't been following that closely, but I thought BaB's said this is the way it is going to be from now on. -
End game content.
Rework of all low level content. Yes I realize there will be low level content in GR, but I'm specifically indicating that they need to revamp all the existing low level stuff too.
More than 2 new powersets - think more like 6-8 new powersets
Finish color customization
Remove upwards of 10 hero zones. Anything with less than 5 visitors per day should be axed.
Finally, nuke the AE and get in your time machine to regain the millions of manhours and heaps of cash wasted on it. IMO of course
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Na, I'm not talking about the expected reductions due to AT modifiers or the expected MM endurance penalty. Those aren't extra balancing factors levied against a set.
If dark was ok it would have had the same heal as corrs, but just cost more end and heal the appropriate MM amount. The change to t-grasp extends beyond the expected measure.
If you were going to apply above and beyond balancing you could cite Soothing aura and how it is regen for MM's as the pulse heal would be OP'd. So in that regard pain was hit in addition to inter AT values. Thermal wasn't though.
Tarpatch is just a glaring example of poor implementation of pseudo-pets. The crappy job done on it and many others is a large source of dissension when looking between AT's that shouldn't exist. -
Quote:Dude if you can't see in the examples I've shown the numbers for no AAO as well and it is still crushing the aura then I can't help you.Originally Posted by Windenergy21
You obviously aren't getting what I'm saying at all nor can see where each can fit into different situations to their strengths and weaknesses.
And you NEED to STOP adding in AAO to your equations if you're not going to add it to the damage aura side as well. AAO is NOT part of shield charge, its part of SHIELD DEFENSE. Yes they are used in conjunction, but AAO does NOT go into factoring how SC works at all. We are comparing SC to a damage aura, not SC + AAO to a damage aura. That makes no sense. I don't know how i can explain that more to you, or why you don't seem to grasp that concept.
We're not comparing the damage from shield defense to that of say fire or dark, we are comparing SHIELD CHARGE to a DAMAGE aura. AAO is either NOT included in both situations, or IS included in BOTH situations. The fact that you for some reason can't seem to inlcude AAO in your damage aura calculations shows that both you are missing the point, and are not understanding the argument at all.
I've showed my points, and the numbers, multiple times now. You've showed your numbers, which again, do not inlcude equal conditions. So what's even the point of comparing. You also neglected to still factor in the time wasted because you (should) be waiting to use it for the next spawn so you don't waste it, and likewise is not always up exactly at the beginning of the next spawn and have to wait some to use it as well, this is not even factoring what happens when you get in battle with -rech powers. The power is NOT an ideal aoe attack. Its got that BOOM effect yes, but it is nowhere near the holy grail you claim it out to be.
For the exact same reasons that a normal aoe attack has benefits over both a damage aura and power like shield charge. They are both relatively comparible powers, with each having their own particular use. Again, if SC is doing as much damage as proposed, to start, the mob will be dead soon, but then you won't be able to use SC at all for the next mob because it will be recharging. Which shows, that different situations, shine for each power.
I'm not looking at powers in a vacuum because that is stupid, I'm looking at the sets as a whole. AAO is part of shields, most people use it and that is why I give numbers for 0, 3, and full AAO (0 and 3 represent someone who sucks at using it). If you want more I can do that, but it won't make SC any worse than 0 in AAO. I also factor in BU and FE over time for the aura. I honestly don't see how I can be any more impartial. I'm not the one that set BU and SC to be on the exact same timer...
You seriously need to get off the idea that AAO should be added to damage auras, I'll entertain that idea no more than I would the idea that FE should be added to shield charge...Asking for conditions that are impossible ingame is just being asinine. Intentionally or otherwise.
All I can say is that if you aren't experiencing SC drastically outperforming your damage aura in game then it is a case of user error because you need to pretty much intentionally use SC wrong for the damage auras to compete.
Things to remember next time:
16 targets >10 targets
20ft > 8ft
Burst AoE damage > Dot AoE damage in CoX - always has been, likely always will be. -
Quote:yes and no. Burn occurs over 10 seconds. If we assume only a single burn active at a time it isOriginally Posted by Werner
If Mids' is right, you're averaging 341.8 damage in (roundup(2.03/.132)+1)*.132 = 2.244 seconds for 152 DPS.
2.244+10 = 12.244
346.8/12.244 = 28.3 dps
Additionally if you had a build that was producing 150 dps from your single targets you interrupt that for 2.244 seconds meaning you need to make up 2.244*150 = 336.6 lost damage.
If your burn is doing 346.8 damage it isn't until the very last couple ticks that you are even gaining anything and what you do gain is pretty small.
If you have an attack chain gap then burn is great for that. Burn also has tremendous dpe if that is a concern for your build. While FE is up, burn is a much more attractive interjection into your attack chain.
*If your st attack chain is seamless and produces 154 dps or less then burn can be beneficial. If you produce more dps than that you need to weigh the pros and cons.
*154 is just based on the example numbers given for burn.
Edit: whether you resolve burn's damage in its cast time or over the life doesn't really make much difference for whether or not you'd use it in a scenario where a static target is present, but looking at it over the lifetime does help clarify what is occurring. -
Quote:pseudo pets are a mess in this game I have absolutely nothing good to say about their implementation and complete lack of consistency.Originally Posted by Carnifax
It's still an excellent heal. You just can't quite blanket heal with it as much as with a Defenders version, you've to get a bit closer to your pets with it. It's not like Dark is weak or anything with it either.
A Masterminds Fluffy gets the old fashioned, wide AOE heal too. In fact MMs get the Defender and Corrupter version of Fluffy, just on a much longer recharge, which IOs can easily solve for you (-ToHit/Recharge and -ToHit/Recharge/End ones are excellent in it).
Because sets are balanced around the entire set, not just single powers. MMs get Corrupter & Defender versions of Dark Servant and Tar Patch. But in Thermal and Pain all the powers are affected by the MM modifiers correctly.
There is a weirdness when considering Pseudopets in all sets though. Sometimes weaker versions are created, sometimes not. It never seems to be consistant (but I assume it is balanced around it).
Look at it another way. If dark was considered so strong that it needed to be reduced for MM's (seems valid to me at least), but both therm and pain weren't considered too strong that they needed reduction does that mean that corr and def Dark Miasma is OP'd or is thermal and pain too weak for corrs? -
Quote:Umm you already did ~750 damage to the bosses with the initial casting of SC, which means the aura has to run for close to a minute to catch up vs that boss.Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Like i said, single event, yes for SC, but that ALSO leads to issues of use. Damage auras, are being used during the initial attack, and all the way through the rest of the battle, including when killing bosses when SC is recharged, and the damge aura is still helping to damage the boss, while SC just sits thre on the tray recharged. I'm sure your not going to use it on that one or two bosses you're fighting.
Unless you are talking about solo'ing set as one you are going to be casting SC vs groups of enemies. I've already pointed out the very select circumstances that a damage aura can be better.
Oh I see what you are saying, you're saying that group defeat time > SC recharge time. That just doesn't gel with in game experience on virtually and team I've been on with my bs/shield and I rightly suspect will be even less of a factor with 1.5x as much damage on it heh. Far more often I'm wishing for an even faster rech on SC because we defeated the previous group so quickly.
Well you have to sit on SC for a loooong time for the aura to catch up. A long time. -
Not missing the issue, SC is better with or without AAO, I thought that was clear with it being stated several times now. The fact that AAO is an option to boost SC further just makes it moreso.
You can feel what you feel, but the math just isn't on your side here and neither is actual gameplay experience.
You'd have been much better picking a Brute to compare damage aura vs brute SC and even then it would only be closer because so much of fury is wasted on the brute version of SC due to the low damage ceiling of pseudo-pets.
Auras are barely comparable vs a single target you see that right?
So:
which hits more targets?
which hits a bigger area?
bigger area and more targets equates to more targets hit more easily.
If we go back to the SO numbers of blazing aura vs SC (best case scenario for auras as more rech just benefits SC so much more). We have:
Aura
14.9 dps vs st
vs 10 targets (gl w/ that)
149 dps
*gl getting 10 in the aura consistently and gl having constant enemies to stick in the aura.
SC vs 16 targets
w/ no AAO
197 dps
w/ 3 in AAO
219.4 dps
w/ full AAO
251.4 dps
Like I said it is better w/ or w/o AAO by a landslide. You're welcome to show how burst aoe isn't a huge benefit in the way this game is played, but that will prove to be a difficult task. (outside of solo'ing set as 1 hero).
I seriously doubt they are going to reduce SC anytime in the near future on the heels of a massively huge buff, but the position you are taking is not supported by any of the evidence. -
ya it's only 10% proc chance.
So it is clearly going to work a lot better in a saturated troller fissure (16 targets) than compared to a dom fissure with only 10 targets. -
Quote:lame. Hopefully they can fix it.Originally Posted by Gaia
The post I have seen about this before was about it happening to imps from a 'troller - I've definitely seen it on my Dom's imps.
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Very pleased with Darkest grey for the first color and darkest brown for the second color. It is almost invisible with mild while edges for icearmor.
Darkest blue and dark brown worked well too, but rather than the mild white edging you get mild blue.
Still would like a no vfx option for those icecube armors, but it is much better than I had though it would be based on the costume generators representation. -
Oh I pull...taffy.
I haven't tried with a stalker snipe, but unless they are different from other snipes then you are usually better pulling with something that does much lower damage. -
Quote:Two questions:Originally Posted by vinque
How do you use broadcast? I seem to be doing something wrong because I select broadcast channel and there's no chatting. I say things and get no response. Am I doing something wrong?
1. Where are you when using broadcast? as mentioned if you are in a private instance you are only broadcasting to that instance
2. What server are you on? some of them are so empty you may as well be in an instanced map especially if you aren't in one of the few popular zones. -
Quote:hmm I don't remember them changing it per cast, or even if they can do that? I remember them making it so it suppresses because it was easy to get 100% rech out of it and I remember them making it so it didn't fire every single time (ie 100% proc chance).Originally Posted by Mid_Boss
Actually I just put one in Tremor and frankly it very rarely goes off even when hitting many enemies. I'm pretty sure they fixed it a while back so it goes off per cast, not per enemy hit. I remember when every bot mm and SS brute HAD to have them and they went for many millions on the market and now they're 100k for a lvl 50
Maybe I'll check tonight on my plant/kin/stone, but I remember when I was +2 boss farming during last 2x xp event it was generating around 30% global rech for me. I was disappointed at first until I put it in perspective. -
Ya when they first did MM secondaries /dark was the only set with an aoe heal. It is of course extremely powerful so they greatly reduced the size of the heal aoe. Kinda lame, but acceptable as /dark MM's are still top tier.
However when they added pain they didn't do anything to the heal radius, nor when they added thermal, which just make dark look like the odd man out now.
It is reasonable to ask that if thermal and pain are ok with full sized heals why wouldn't dark be?
I dunno, but it just looks sloppy to me. -
Actually, because SC is a single event and is so easy to hit 12+ targets every second that you aren't feeding 10 targets into your damage aura SC pulls further and further ahead. And considering it already starts out ahead in the race it ends up being like this:
At a glance if you consistently only hit 4 targets with SC it would end up on par with most damage auras when used well (ie good saturation, minimal downtime between groups). -
Quote:Lumi does good work, but imo you play TA for oilslick and you play arch for Rain of Arrows. So hasten is pretty much mandatory for an enjoyable TA experience (at least IME).Originally Posted by Graile
You guys are all making me nervous about whether what little time I have to play will be well spent leveling up an A/TA corruptor. I usually get alt-itis when I get into the 20's so it probably won't matter anyway =). So far I'm a big bad 8th level and I'm tearing the place up!
I get what's being said about the faults of the two power sets but has anyone tried to work around those? I'm hoping that IO slotting might help and was curious what opinions there were on what to slot for. My first guess would be to slot for +Ranged Defense? +Recharge next maybe? I'm planning on taking the Medicine (I hate not having heals) pool along with some Stamina (I hear it's optional according to Luminara's guide though) and I think I'll pass on Hasten in going along with the guide.
Medicine is probably important as arch has little mitigation and TA has even less.. j/k. But, I don't shy away from inspiration usage so I just use greens and purples.
If you don't intend to take the set up to at least lvl 36 I'd probably recommend trying something else. Storm, Rad, and Dark Miasma get great powers very early.
Ranged def on a TA is a great choice. If that is the route you go I'd definitely take Flash arrow, it's auto hit and will give you ~5-8% def depending on what level foes you face. Getting high ranged def might be tough though. I'd actually consider trying to boost s/l def with scorp shield and IO's, but without looking closer at the combo it might be tough to boost s/l very high too.
If you manage to get ranged def up I'd go lev for the sheild and hibernate (could remove medicine with high def and hibernate easily enough). If you go the easier route with s/l def then a 2 slotted Foc Acc (dont run it with this slotted) can add good s/l def via the rectified recticle set. -
I agree that you can't have too much recharge, but FF proc doesn't work that way. It self suppresses and iirc the absolute most you can have it up is 50% of the time.
I have it in fissure on my plant/kin/stone troller and over time it has added ~30% rech to my build. When you factor in downtime between groups I think that is about as much uptime as you are going to get out of it. Well that's not accurate, I could see getting it up closer to 40%.
Putting it in st powers with kb tends to not be a great use of that slot. You'd be much better off putting a kb damage proc in it working on the assumption that you have slotted acc/dam/rech/end up as high as you were seeking in the first 5 slots.
In aoe knock powers it checks every single target hit so it is very good there.
If you are only fighting one foe (ie boss or such) the dam procs in your st powers will still be of more benefit than the FF proc in them.
But ymmv. -
Quote:I think you'd be the first person to actually take and use the snipes that stalkers have access to heh. They are the worst powers in the game.Originally Posted by Darth_Vernon
Slightly off topic, what is everyones experience trying to make a "ranged" scrapper? I know its easier to do a ranged Stalker (snipes in EPP) but havent really tried hero side. Thoughts?
You can make an all ranged claws or spines scrapper pretty easily by adding in the epic ranged attacks. You just end up with a lot of redraw, but if that doesn't bother you then no problem.
I much preferred trying to do a ranged build on my fire/ss/pyre tank though cause rage powered epic attacks are really good. Hurl, fireblast, fireball, and damage slotted ring of fire was actually pretty good. -
They have the ability to use indicator hotspots on maps, I'm surprised they haven't at least tried to implement some disasters, or at least something like a plane/bus crash random small scale event.
Hot spot pops up you rush over to find bad guys looting the area, fires to put out, people to save, etc, etc.
I don't expect to be able to prevent the occurrence as that would be a very high degree of environmental interaction, but everything is in place to be able to interact with the event once it has already occurred.
I dunno, that is outside world stuff though and given they spent years developing AE to contain us to one room and have heavily relied on instances all along it probably wouldn't fly at Paragon. But imagine something like the fires in Steel Canyon, but not sucking horribly
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Quote:I read what you said, it was just irrelevant because no sets have AAO+damage aura. What is relevant is what is currently possible in the game.Originally Posted by Windenergy21
You totally didn't read what i wrote. I said shield charge looks so good, cause you are always having AAO boosting it up. I SAID was i'd take the damage aura over it any day, MEANING if it was in place of shield charge, it would be boosted by AAO constantly.
I'll even grant a few recharge bonuses to have SC using every 40 seconds to make this easier and at max AAO, Bu on the same rech.
SC: 200.20 x (1.95 + 1 + .81) = 752.75/40 = 18.82DPS
Blazing aura: [13.76 x (1.95 + .81] = 37.98/2 = 18.98, alone without build up already beating out shield charge.
Now as the fight dwindles, AAO will go down some, we can kinda consider this a wash if we don't consider in build up, but also remember that the damage aura is constantly working, meaning it is working all the time as you are cleaining up what's left as well, bosses, tough LTs, you name it. Also factor in, that you aren't going to USE shield charge, the very second it's up every time. If it is recharging midway through a mob, you are not going to use it just because it's ready, you are going to wait to use it until you engage in the next mob.
Considering most of the mob is around you, and/or can be made to do so, you can really say they're fairly equivalent overall. While true that recharges benefit SC, also true that consistent damage buffs will boost the damage aura higher over time as well, such as the rage scenario)
It can come down to a lot of the way the enemies come about. Close, spread out, how long the fight lasts etc. Oh, and over time damage procs in damage auras are WAY more useful than they are in shield charge. Additionally just as recharge helps, slows will negatively impact shield charge, where they wouldn't affect a damage aura at all.
Edit: With the new proper damage on shield charge it puts it about almost the exact value on par with damage auras, only in a different form as a different kind of use. Seems perfectly fine to me.
Yes AAO + damage aura would be sweet. Not as good as AAO with SC though. Heck I showed well beyond what a hypothetical AAO w/ aura would be with double followup+FE on a high rech claws/fire (the absolute best possible performance you can get out of an aura btw, yes better than double rage w/ high fury brute blazing aura) and it still wasn't as good as equal recharge AAO+SC for scrappers
They are comparable sure, but then that means overlooking the value of extreme aoe burst damage that is a huge radius and makes the assumption that you are constantly fueling your damage aura, which simply is not the case (or very rarely). Every second you aren't hitting someone with your aura makes SC pull further and further ahead.
On top of the huge aoe vs the tiny aoe SC hits 16 targets and auras hit 10. If we pretended it was hard to hit 16 targets with a 20ft aoe then it is almost impossible to fit 10 targets into an 8ft aoe, but in actual gameplay it is very easy to hit 16 w/ SC and only about 7 or 8 w/ auras.
It's also vs Blazing aura which is at least 9% better than the next best aura(s)
Seriously SC is better than any aura w/ or w/o AAO, (even better than the blaster auras w/ aim and bu factored in) the fact that the set has AAO and no sets with auras do just drives another stake into the matter.
I like SC, but the scrapper version is so much better than auras that while I wouldn't put it on par with old PSW for doms it is causing me to reminisce.
Don't get me wrong, I'm using it on my BS/shield and I'm looking forward to when this patches to live and I can trivialize the rest of my team (especially blasters) even more, but come on.
Edit: using your 40 second cycle time the aura costs 20.8 end vs 13.5 for SC. It isn't until you slot ~60% end reduc in the aura that they end up costing the same. So SC is more damage, more valuable aoe burst damage (in most scenarios), way bigger aoe, hits more targets, provides good mitigation, and costs less endurance. Like Nihilli keeps saying, is there any reason to play anything other than shields? (aside from concept or lockedout combos).