Tremor using wrong table?


Frosticus

 

Posted

I can't remember where but I'd read a few days ago someone had posted that Fissure was using the dom "cone" table which is why its radius is so small (10 feet). Even though it's a short range aoe.

Was this intentional?

And why does mud pots have such a small radius and damage but huge endurance cost? Is it because it has a bunch of secondary effects that are of NO use to dominators?


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Posted

First off I think you meant fissure. Tremor is correctly using a 15 yard radius that is (now) pretty standard for a dominator pbaoe.

I said that at some point, though I don't know if it's me you're referring to. All dominator sets seem to be balanced around having one cone and one pbaoe attack. With some exceptions that have reasons for those exceptions. This, the target cap and the radius on the ability lead me to conclude that fissure is placed on the cone table for certain calculations.

The ability has the functional range, area and target cap of a mid-sized cone. However it has the ease of use of a targetted aoe. It's damage still feels low, but looking at the set it seems balanced around having three pbaoe attacks and a strong melee focus so this ability being limited in this way doesn't feel (to me) as weak as it looks in a vaccuum. Consider the whole set.

Edit:

The secondary effects are great IMO. Fissure takes disorient sets which means you can slot it with immobilize to fill in somewhat on control gaps in sets like Grav or Mind. Almost all of the attacks in the set take KB sets so you can dump lots of kinetic crash or force feedback procs in em. Also as far as the end cost goes, it's still the cheapest targetted aoe attack in any of the dominator sets.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorlain View Post
Almost all of the attacks in the set take KB sets so you can dump lots of kinetic crash or force feedback procs in em.

SHHH! Don't tell everyone my strategy!

A-hem. Nothing to see here folks. Certainly not any +recharge holy grails. Nope. Move along please.


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Posted

If you find yourself needing FF +rech proc in more than just fissure (maybe tremor) on a decent build then you are doing something wrong.


 

Posted

I intend to put the +recharge proc in all my powers that do knockdown (except for earthquake) because on a dom there's no such thing as too much +recharge


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Posted

I agree that you can't have too much recharge, but FF proc doesn't work that way. It self suppresses and iirc the absolute most you can have it up is 50% of the time.

I have it in fissure on my plant/kin/stone troller and over time it has added ~30% rech to my build. When you factor in downtime between groups I think that is about as much uptime as you are going to get out of it. Well that's not accurate, I could see getting it up closer to 40%.

Putting it in st powers with kb tends to not be a great use of that slot. You'd be much better off putting a kb damage proc in it working on the assumption that you have slotted acc/dam/rech/end up as high as you were seeking in the first 5 slots.

In aoe knock powers it checks every single target hit so it is very good there.

If you are only fighting one foe (ie boss or such) the dam procs in your st powers will still be of more benefit than the FF proc in them.

But ymmv.


 

Posted

Actually I just put one in Tremor and frankly it very rarely goes off even when hitting many enemies. I'm pretty sure they fixed it a while back so it goes off per cast, not per enemy hit. I remember when every bot mm and SS brute HAD to have them and they went for many millions on the market and now they're 100k for a lvl 50


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Posted

Heh, I'm glad that the one I got dropped far enough back that it was still worth something when I sold it.

I think that was less than a month before it was changed.


@MuonNeutrino
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mid_Boss View Post
Actually I just put one in Tremor and frankly it very rarely goes off even when hitting many enemies. I'm pretty sure they fixed it a while back so it goes off per cast, not per enemy hit. I remember when every bot mm and SS brute HAD to have them and they went for many millions on the market and now they're 100k for a lvl 50
hmm I don't remember them changing it per cast, or even if they can do that? I remember them making it so it suppresses because it was easy to get 100% rech out of it and I remember them making it so it didn't fire every single time (ie 100% proc chance).

Maybe I'll check tonight on my plant/kin/stone, but I remember when I was +2 boss farming during last 2x xp event it was generating around 30% global rech for me. I was disappointed at first until I put it in perspective.


 

Posted

I didn't think it was per cast either. The reason it's so cheap seems to be that it's a mob drop that doesn't trigger that often even in an AoE.


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Posted

ya it's only 10% proc chance.

So it is clearly going to work a lot better in a saturated troller fissure (16 targets) than compared to a dom fissure with only 10 targets.


 

Posted

Dom fissure is also rather low damage and a small aoe. I've been on missions with it on a team and never hit more than three enemies at a time with it. Very disappointing. If it weren't for the sheer awesomeness of seismic smash I'd consider the set a wash and reroll with another secondary.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mid_Boss View Post
Dom fissure is also rather low damage and a small aoe. I've been on missions with it on a team and never hit more than three enemies at a time with it. Very disappointing. If it weren't for the sheer awesomeness of seismic smash I'd consider the set a wash and reroll with another secondary.
Ya, I know I certainly brought up that issue regarding Fissure as soon as I found out it was so tiny.

It seems incorrect to me, or at least illogical. Doms were just given the once over so everything meshed up nicely and all of their aoe's are quite large. Then came along /earth assault with its tiny Fissure and its tiny mudpots. I could understand if this was i7, but right on the heels of the dom revamp it is just confusing (to me at least).

The bit that I've tried /earth I felt it necessary to corner stack to actually be able to use mud and Fissure. Not only are spawns usually too spread for such tiny aoes, doms don't lend themselves well to compacting spawns (other than plant) as they have so many rooting powers and everything has such large aoes.

But ya, all of the melee attacks are great. Not great enough for me to stick with the set unfortunately, but...ymmv.


 

Posted

I got my earth/earth to 40. Where I think he'll sit until they do something about this. Mean while I'm gonna work on my rad/psi blaster and maybe make a ice/psi/mako dom


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
[...] doms don't lend themselves well to compacting spawns (other than plant) as they have so many rooting powers and everything has such large aoes. [...]
*cough* wormhole *cough*

Also: Not everything is about performance. Some might not yet have noticed, but this is a game. It's about fun, and earth with it's shaky brutish feel offers a damn lot of that - and that comes from someone who tends to crunch numbers in Mid's.

Sorry for the off topic but I'm tired of everyone speaking so ultimately low of Earth assault (which I totally like, the single target damage is awesome and if you manage to clump em together, the AoEs can work wonders, too).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgoth View Post
*cough* wormhole *cough*

Also: Not everything is about performance. Some might not yet have noticed, but this is a game. It's about fun, and earth with it's shaky brutish feel offers a damn lot of that - and that comes from someone who tends to crunch numbers in Mid's.

Sorry for the off topic but I'm tired of everyone speaking so ultimately low of Earth assault (which I totally like, the single target damage is awesome and if you manage to clump em together, the AoEs can work wonders, too).
Wormhole used is a specific way can clump. outside of having a corner to push them into it does anything but clump. And while I didn't intend it that would actually be covered by the term "corner stacking" heh cause that is exactly what you are doing.

I've mentioned in other threads that /earth is fun for the exact reasons you state and also mentioned that if you can overlook numbers it can be a very satisfying experience. I also mentioned in this very thread that the 3 melee attacks are great*. However, it would be more fun if the aoes were bigger and in the case of fissure matched the expectation formed from the existing power available to trollers. Then it could be fun in a tactile sense and a numeric sense and please a larger group of players.

*Stating the st damage is awesome is very misleading. The recharge needed for that to be true is beyond what most people ever experience on a consistent basis. The burst st damage is pretty decent though.


I apologize if I'm down about /earth, I had very very high hopes for the set. Not unrealistically high, but I was hoping for the equivalent of shields, wp, pain, or dual blades (relative to other sets) awesome that they have done with new sets. I'm unsure why earth turned out the way it did.


 

Posted

Quote:
I apologize if I'm down about /earth, I had very very high hopes for the set.
I've had the same reaction to it. The melee attacks are nice, but the rest is too clunky. For my highly mobile playstyle two attacks that can't be fired off in the air are a minus, not to mention they are so slow, and one can't be used on enemies in the air either. Add in sloooooow Tremor and the small radius on the other two AoEs...it's a real disappointing set.

It seems like a strange set to be the first new one after the Dom revamp. I don't know if Castle was so concerned about making it too strong that he over-weakened it, or if it was just a matter of expedience.