Forbin_Project

Since when did Valentines day have anything to do with celebrating the day the dead rose from the grave by hiding colored chicken eggs from mutant rabbits?

Yes you did. BaBs is a dev and you said:




You are clearly talking about BaBs response in this thread.


Because it is BaBs job to know whether or not an idea like this is feasible with CoH's game engine. Because he works every day with the game code. Because he has the training and experience to know exactly what he is talking about.

You however, don't know squat. You have never seen the code they use. You have never worked with the game engine. All you have is your opinion.

Repeatedly posting that it would look good because you say it will look good only makes you look foolish.


And yet BaBs has flat out said the animations and VFX would take years to do and the end result will look stupid, you refuse to accept it.

Actually it does because the more you stamp your feet and ignore what BaBs has said the more you look like KittyKrusader.

Is that the best you can do? Please point to the exact part where BaBs said an underwater zone was a silly idea.




Oh that's right, he never said that. What he actually said was that it would take years and the results would be lousy. I wonder who it was that said an underwater zone would look silly? Oh that's right it was YOU.


What's really funny about your posts is that in one breath you extoll the devs for their high standards when creating this game, then throw a hissy fit when one of them tells you that the idea you like would take too long and ultimately not meet the level of quality we have all come to know and expect.

Oh and the reason I mentioned CO is because they have underwater content where they did nothing

ROFL. You obviously haven't seen the extent of Champions power customization.



Then there's ours . . .



We have 180 colors vs their what is it 6? They haven't even figured out how to make the colors black or white. Yeah we'll happily take what we have over CO's anemic system any day of the week.

Their wings and jetpacks don't even work yet.

Yes they should, because that's in their job description. This is their game, not mine, not Bill's, not Sam's, not yours. If a suggestion doesn't fit into the direction the devs want to take their game then it isn't going to be added. People aren't going to cancel their accounts if it isn't added.


Humor. Learn how to spot it when it's being used.


You can't walk 5 feet without running into a player that has a desire they'd absolutely love to see added to the game. Just because more than one person wants it, doesn't make it a good idea. Nor does it mean that the devs should jump and put it into the game.

If you want to see an example of what City of Heroes would look like if they implemented a bunch of bad ideas just try CO.

Here ya go Shark.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Disclaimer

Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively.

The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea.

Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve.

If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. Tongue-in-cheek comments in here are meant as humor, not put downs.

Searching Effectively

1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum.
2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas."
3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed:

+vehicle -"re: "

This will search for anything with the string "vehicle" in the title.The -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.)

Be sure to put the space between the colon and last quote.

4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.

5. Leave Username Search blank.

6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months.

7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit."

The subject at hand: Vehicles.
Vehicles as travel powers. This gets brought up a lot.

Short answer, don't expect it.

Long answer:
There are a lot of problems with the idea.

1. Movement.

Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle. There are also issues such as drift and "realistic" handling. We can go side to side, as mentioned, and make immediate right angle turns. Cars... not so much.

2. Movement, part 2.

Go stand in the road. No, not you personally. Take your character out and stand in the road, if you're heroside. Or even in the path of civilians. What happens? You get pushed. While not as big an issue with a motorcycle, perhaps, a car would have issues. What happens if two cars meet head on - yours and an NPC, or yours and another player's? Do you just pass through each other? Would you be satisfied with that very odd result? Or would you get stuck? How about those NPCs, can they walk and push your car, or are they walking through it? Neither answer is very satisfying, and intelligent, dynamic pathing is too computationally expensive.

3. Terrain.

Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump.

4. Combat.

You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?

5. Customizing.

Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else.

6. Making "sense."

This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid.

That's just a quick overview of why vehicles as generally envisioned aren't a spectacular idea for a travel power.
Further discussion

This I think merits a bit of extra commentary, honestly.

"Vehicles" covers a lot of different ground for different people. Some only consider cars/jets/motorcycles vehicles. Others add jetpacks, wings and the like. Much of the above considers cars and similar sized vehicles, with nods to motorcycle type vehicles.

Jetpacks and such, I don't see happening as travel powers. As costume options for Flight? Or as invented pieces that interact with Fly, similar to wings? Absolutely - but they don't need to be a separate travel power for that. I'm all for more jetpack and wing (or combination) designs. Besides, there are so many "temp" jetpacks, I don't see introducing yet another one as really being feasable - just my opinion.

But vehicles - cars, specifically - as a travel power, have issues.

One way to have them "somewhat" work.

For all that, I know some people *would* still like to pull up in front of a mission. So how do we do it?

A temporary power, based on the same tech from the Mac/Valkyrie pack Mission Teleporter. The temporary power would:

(a) be an invention - dropping from enemies. (A reward, because you saved... well, we'll get to that,)

(b) be a single use each time - you can only hold one at a time, not one of each, one total.

(c) use rarely used salvage, because... it's rarely used, and cheap. No Luck Charms here.

(d) come in multiple varieties.

How does this get around the various issues?


Terrain - It doesn't pass terrain. It just arrives.

It follows the same 'rules' as the mission teleporter - it's not indoors, doesn't go to contacts, etc. Just mission doors.

Customizing - It's not "your" vehicle. It's a temp power. You've called a cab, limo, or other transport.

Power animation - since you're skipping the space in between, no powers can be used 'til you arrive anyway.



The varieties?
- Limo: Stereotypical slightly stretched black limo.
- Checker cab: The classic yellow cab.

KittyKrusader?

o.O

An A-School is where a Navy recruit goes for technical training in his specialty after completing boot camp.

Exactly. I didn't get hurt . . . the cars getting repaired . . . Why would I care?

You're advising people to ignore and/or not read what gets said to them in the rep comments. If they do that then the bullies violating the forums rules can run rampant because no one will complain/report them. Bullies should never be tolerated. The mods cannot possibly review every single post/rep comment/tag that gets made. They depend on us speaking up.

You're right. NCSoft has no right to tell us what we can and cannot say on their private forum, or in their game.


You pay $15 bucks a month and no one has the right to tell you or anyone else they don't have the right to make an *** of themselves.

Uhm. It started at suck and went downhill from there. Suck was it's highpoint.


Now that's not to say the game doesn't have some good features. There are features I like about it that I think would go great here, but it's like panning for gold. Ya gotta sift thru a lotta crap for the good stuff.

Let's see, first let me say for the record that I'm not against more slots. Honest. But after seeing 5 years of issues getting released I've come to the conclusion it's better to be pessimistic about what is going to be released. I find it reduces disappointment, and I'm now almost always pleased with what we do get.

It wasn't supposed to be a sliding scale argument. I was trying to say, poorly apparently, that the devs for whatever reason have chosen to place limitations on us. As long as those limitations are there, we have to make choices, sometimes unpleasant ones on how we live/exist/play the game. Before the devs gave us the ability to have 36 slots per server I had 3 accounts. I deleted and remade the characters on my third account as fast as possible when the limit was raised.

Personally I list the number of character slots in with global banks, merged markets, more costume slots, more base items, and combined NA/EU server list. They are all things I would love to have more of.

Well, if they implemented a feature like this I don't think the devs would let us sacrifice every slot on a particular server. I think they'd require a minimum number for each (for example 4), but I think it would be great if we could assign slots to our personal preferences, especially the ones we buy via microtransactions and annual vet reward without having an upper limit per server.

Not a problem. When I read the post I got the impression that you were implying that a person who has played longer has a more significant attachment to their characters and that rubbed my feathers the wrong way and my mulish nature kicked in.

No hard feelings, and I appreciate your responding with clarification.

I never said that players were wrong for wanting more slots. I said I didn't think the devs are going to give us extra slots.

Yes I have seen those requests. I've seen them made by people that have bought all the slots available and by those that don't want to buy any extra slots. It doesn't change my mind on this.

This is no different than the people that start complaining that they have nothing to do in-game a week after a new issue is released because they plowed through the new content already. No matter how many slots the devs make available per server there will always be players that will want more slots because they filled up the ones they already have.
If we are going to indulge in our altitis then we have to take responsibility for our actions and accept that at some point we are going hit the limit and we'll to have to decide to . . .

A. Delete some characters

B. Transfer characters to different servers to make room

C. Start another account

We are very lucky that we have cheap server transfers so we can save characters we don't play as often as others.

"Stupid, unreasonable, and shouldn't happen" Those are your words Sam not mine. I never used them, and again I also never said I was against getting more slots. What I actually said was that I don't think the devs are going to give us more. Big difference there Sam.

If you don't want your financial situation discussed then you shouldn't bring it up in the first place.

I'm all in favor of adding the EU servers to the NA server list. That would give everyone 15 servers to play on, give our EU brothers and sisters thousands of people to play with.

I've have a blast playing lowbie characters during this event.


As to your friend, I'm sorry but I'm not gonna miss a guy that decides not to play a game because he doesn't like an event that only comes around once a year. An event he can choose not to participate when it is occurring.

I hope your friend finds something he does like.

Courtesy of je_saist

Which is why BaB's said they would "ultimately look stupid."


Devs rarely say

about a suggestion. So when they do they mean it.

Naw. I'm grumpy because I'm an ***hole. Always have been.

Oh please living off of savings is a personal choice. Lots of students work jobs and still manage to stay on the deans list. Some even work several jobs at the same time. Students can also get paid for participating in studies.

Heck anyone can sell blood once a month which will net them around $40 bucks, and if you choose to sell plasma which only takes 30 minutes it will net you $35 per session, and you can have 2 sessions a week. That's $70 a week and it only takes an hour of your time. In a month you'd have $280 which is enough to pay for 18 accounts.

Honestly, I'm hoping that is what we'll see happen.

That argument won't fly with me. I'm disabled and live on a fixed income of $770. per month and still manage to live on a budget that pays my bills and covers my accounts.

Actually playing on several servers great, because players are expanding their communities not splitting them up. Private global channels are cross server as well as cross faction. Having characters on multiple servers means those players rarely have trouble finding people to play with.