FlyingCodeMonkey

You have a team of eight experienced players who are online regularly enough to make this work. I hate you.

</envy>

If "Safeguard" missions are just a big combo of "take X to the exit," "protect the X," and "prevent X from escaping" missions then yeah, they'll tend to be dull or frustrating like the existing ones.

Destruction of villain assets (vehicles, weapons, supplies, barricades, flunkies, etc) is good. Heroes would just have to be more discriminating, careful not to damage police and civilian stuff. Just make sure pets know the difference.

"Safeguard mission" need to find a way to be at least as big as Mayhem missions, if not bigger. Besides the small side stuff (rescue X, prevent Y, protect Z) and attacking villain equipment/personnel for time bonuses, each one should feature something really, really big that needs to be taken out. Things like a gigantic doomsday weapon about to launch, a massive spider walker, a humongous Council war machine, a fortified base complex, communications towers, and so on. I would want the climax of a Safeguard mission to be the collapse of a huge robot, launch gantry, building, Rikti saucer, etc. It still fits the "Safeguard" theme of protecting people, just from progressively more massive threats.

That said, most of my characters would be unable to solo something of that magnitude. But I hate soloing.

Posi, what about this scenario with regard to mission-dropping:

My characters (not alone in this) actively seek Story Arcs over non-story mission series, using resources like nofuture to recognize the first mission in the arc. Often, when you first touch a new contact with the potential to offer an arc, they won't do so until you've performed a nuisance hunt, or something similar. Does the drop system mean that my Arc-seeking character can continually take and drop irrelevant missions from the new contact until I finally find the starter mission I'm seeking? The same question applies to certain important badge missions, like Spelunker.

Since I know you guys want for people to experience the "content" of missions, and for other reasons, I assume that won't (or shouldn't work). But what prevents it? Do you have to fail a mission before dropping it? Or out-level the contact who offered it? Or what? If I drop a mission from an old out-leveled arc, is there something in the system that says "don't offer any more missions from this arc," or do I have to keep continually dropping the old missions until the old arc is finally "finished"?

If the details aren't settled yet, then that's one thing. But I'm still really curious.

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As for players who think they will just be albe to drop every mission they get to PL off a contact... think again; we're crazy. Not that crazy.

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Good to see this on the top list (and good to see the list as a recurring topic) but Posi, you could prevent a lot of confusion and anxiety by explaining what will be the actual mechanics of mission-dropping.

I mainly want that feature for my characters who out-level an old story arc, so that I won't have to spend an hour or so running around doing ancient missions for no xp. I assume (?) it will work for that scenario. And you've asserted that it won't let people skip across TFs, which is good. But how [u]will[u] it work for the general case? You lose nothing by explaining, and someone might even notice an exploitable flaw in the logic that could thus be prevented.

Take five minutes to type it up. It'll be good for everyone.

And fix the trains. Please. Hope to see that on the list soon. As non-destructive QoL bugs go, it's really annoying.

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So, wait...we won't be able to raid bases for IoPs now? Talk about a huge let down.

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So wait ... at least for a while, we can run (and finish) the CoP trial and enjoy an IoP without the hassle of defending against raids? Talk about a pleasant surprise.

Can't please everybody. It's fun to be on the other side for a change.

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SHUUUUUT UP! I've mentioned you in the previous nice folks thread. You, Nebular, YM, the whole lot of Legion of Legends. FANTASTIC folk. You don't need a thread to say it's so.

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I'm not quite so vain. It's that you're about the only one here who has any clue who I am that bugs me a smidge. Why do I never see any of these folks on my teams? Go figure. I'm not that insular, heh.

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I think everyone on Liberty is just grand - you're all nice!

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I must not be very nice. I recognize almost none of these names from teams I've ever joined, and apparently I don't make much of an impression. Ah, well. Maybe at some point.

My latest character, a Tank who is 37 and tired of the 30s, is really looking forward to this event.

My saturday morning and afternoon classes are likely to suffer a bit from my distraction, though.

[edit] Just got the official email, as well.

Phase Shift, including the Warburg temp power version as of some fairly recent patch, automatically shut off after 30 seconds. You may have been the victim of bad timing.

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These numbers are really the kind of thing you only see with Elude, MoG, and stacked bubbles (or highly stacked debuffs).

I get the feeling you'll be protecting your team better in I7 than I6, by a wide margin. Hope that helps.

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And my personal favorite, Vengeance with some Defense SOs slotted. I actually slotted it that way in anticipation of the 50% base to-hit change in I7, and it doesn't disappoint. If I recall correctly (and read an accurate source), three Defense SOs put Defender Vengeance at almost 45%, plus whatever extra smidge I provide with Shadow Fall. One of the things I like about my Dark def is that although I can't always prevent someone from dying, the combo of Vengeance and Howling Twilight means he's very, very good at preventing disaster.

That does help, and it makes sense. Thanks very much for taking the time.

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The one sentence version: accuracy is fair, tohit is not fair, so in I7 critters trade in their evil tohit buffs for accuracy buffs, but they still get to be more accurate than their near-sighted brethren.

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Hmm, I guess I get it. So the multiplicative Accuracy bonus gives them the same proportional advantage, whereas the additive ToHit bonus didn't.

Fair enough, but I wonder where I got the impression that the change was somehow expected to make higher cons (+1, +2) effectively the same as even cons versus Defense buffs or ToHit buffs, up to +5 or so? I'm certain I didn't make that up, but I haven't a clue what mistaken assertion I read. I remember wondering how that could possibly work given the formula as stated.

I guess I can see why some SRs would be a little disappointed, given that the overall to-hit floor for bosses, AVs, etc. isn't just 5% * (their rank modifier) but actually 5% * (their rank mod) * (their con mod) * (per-power mod). As someone whose current main is a Dark def, I can understand. I can see how it's mathematically fair, but it does mean that I'm still not protecting the team as much as I thought, or hoped.

Oh well. Thanks much for the explanation.

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3. Take result from (2), and multiply by all accuracy terms. If you have one accuracy term, multiply by that. If you have two accuracy terms, multiply by each in turn. Do NOT add accuracy together. If you are dealing with a +2 Boss, multiply (2) by 1.3 (for the boss factor) and then by 1.2 (for the +2 factor). If you are dealing with a +2 Boss that is using thunder kick, multiply by 1.2, then 1.3, then 1.05 (for the martial arts accuracy bonus).

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Wait, and here I thought I understood the new system. Weren't the +con modifiers supposed to be removed up to +5 or so? So a +1 Boss and a +4 Boss would have the same overall chance to hit a person with Defense in I7, and only after +5 would it get abruptly more dangerous again? Wasn't that supposed to be big part of what helped Defense to scale versus higher cons?

Where and how am I getting confused? Thanks to your many other informative posts, I thought I understood how the former +ToHit modifier for con level contributed to making life more difficult for Defense sets compared to the Resistance sets. But if that same exact modifier exists on Accuracy now, and it still begins at +1 con level, then what did we gain? Why did we go through this whole exercise?

</obviously-missing-something>

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What we really need are more effects that can't be gained from Inspirations. Grant Invis is a great example of this. Resist End Drain isn't a bad idea

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Indeed. Years ago, I burned out my loot phase for items and crafting with Diablo 2. I'm still not inclined. So at 47 my newest main has a metric ton of salvage that looks cool, but whose purpose and usage I don't much care about. Now that there are storage bins I'll probably head to the base sometime and drop it all in there for the sg leaders to do with as they will.

But it would be nice if these apparently-useless stations were for building charged temp-power buffs of the utility variety. F.ex, most of my characters are Super Speeders. When I need to get to an inaccessible badge like Ace or Top Dog, I used to have to beg for a friendly Recall. Now I can run to the PvP zone and buy a 30-minute temporary flight pack. That makes me happy. A week ago I needed to run the Mole Point mission in the Shard, so I grabbed a Teleport Pack that was enough to get around for the duration of the mission. Good stuff. Sidebar, why isn't there a station that sells these kinds of powers in the shard itself? Gravity geysers. Good grief. Anyway ...

I would love for these Empowerment buffs to be of that sort of utility, with maybe three or five charges per use. Some of the types that they have (resistances) aren't so bad. If a Psi resist weren't obscenely expensive, I'd gladly keep one around to use a charge when entering a fight with Babbage, CWK, Mother Mayhem, or so on. Three charges would be nice, one would be acceptable if the price was low, for a situational temp power that you can build in advance and use on demand. As it is, the prep time, activation, and short duration are almost as much obstacles as the gross prices.

Charged unenhanceable temp powers that duplicate various pool power effects, unusual resistances, and highly situational abilities would be very nice. The strongest ones could be one-shot. The lesser ones could be three or five uses each. These Stations seem like a good idea, badly implemented, but at least there's potential. As is, I don't expect anyone to use them.

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It's gotten to the point that my TA's battle cry is now "Cover me, I'm agroing!"

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Hey, I know you!

Of course, I only remember the Oil Slick actually lighting about twice in that entire outdoor mission when we were teamed this past weekend. Mixed blessing, I guess ... complimentary bugs?

</Necronomaton>

Sort of a reply into the conversation of GS and UberGuy, who both have the interesting distinction of posting most of the things I wanted to post during my months away from the City but couldn't ...

As the owner of a FF defender (50) and a Dark defender (38), I'd certainly like to be the only thing my team needs to roll through missions in total safety. But realistically, it can't be that way. It's not quite proper for one character to be able to max out everyone's defense (FF), floor their chance to be hit (Dark), cap their resistances (Sonic), keep them at 100% health/end all the time (Emp), or whatever. Otherwise us support types run a much worse chance of redundancy.

Sure, there's always been overlap. When SB and Transference are around, there's hardly any need for RA. But for the most part, the way things seem to be now, these sets manage pretty well to be complimentary with two or more very similar AT flavors in a team. If one FF was all we needed for "team elude," then it wouldn't be nearly as fun or as meaningful to combine my Dark def with someone else's bubbler.

I've never been a huge fan of non-resistance sets knowing that defense didn't scale as well to higher cons as resistance. My powergamery nature causes me to think that way. But I7 looks like a step in a good direction, and I think we should preserve the model where two bubblers are better than one, even though that directly means one can't completely protect the group by himself. Even in its current pre-I7 form, defense is certainly a form of mitigation. Just not as overall effective as resistance, but the changes to the formula in I7 (which I like) should ease that. True, higher-rank mobs can't be totally floored anymore. And I'll curse that occasionally when Infernal smacks me or a teammate. But all in all it feels like a welcome improvement to me, for what that's worth.

Considering the bile I spilled over Issue 5, it's a nice change of pace for me to be looking forward to an update.

1. Damage Resistance scales well with higher con.
2. Defense does not scale well with higher con.

With a DR-based set, you don't tend to get hit all that much more often by deep purples ... just harder, but you've got the soak to endure it effectively. With a Defense-based set, you get hit more often and much harder, without the DR to effectively mitigate the damage. Then there's auto-hit powers ... heavy caltrops will melt an SR but barely tickle someone with good S/L resistance.

To say nothing of the effects of inspirations, and the rarity of resistance-debuffing mobs. I really don't understand why these facts don't add up in the City designers minds ... but apparently they don't.

Doesn't have an Ice Tank,
But my first 50 was a FF Defender,
FCM

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In some ways it kinda makes me think stone armor is a prime set since its so diverse

it has resistance and defense and regen all rolled into a nice neat lil package

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Correct. That also includes psi defense and endurance-drain resistance. Stack Health with the regen they already carry, and the results are even more amazing. Slot up Swift (affording the slots is easy when you have Granite), and movement is no problem, either.

Many people are frantically PLing their stoners even as we speak. I almost, almost made my only tank a Stone instead of Inv, but Inv fit his theme better and an sg friend had already started a Stone. Now, my friend has left CoH because of I5, and my Inv (at 37) is watching the sun set on his resistances. C'est la vie.

-FCM

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Why can't they just take an ice tank in the 30s or 40s, and play it, an Invuln tank, a Granite tank, and a Fire tank for an hour each? I know they haven't done it or they wouldn't think that ice was just as good as the others

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Because they have different expectations. The designers of a game always have an extremely different perspective. It comes from being too close to the systems, rather than thousands of hours of real-world gameplay experience with all kinds of pick-up groups.

Until (and probably even after) I see some demos (never will), I refuse to believe Statesman's Grav/Storm gameplay reflects what I personally would consider good control. How could it? But he thinks it is, so what can I do? Nothing. Ice Tanks are faced with the same situation.

Has given up,
FCM

removed

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If you Attack, or are Hit - Critters see you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like this could happen.

Stealth move anywhere, run by one mob group, get spoted by one, as you are near another mob group you get hit by the former mobs attack, all the mobs in the next group see and attack you while you though you were safely out of agro range. Doesn't make sense to me.

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At least as likely:

Empath Defender with SS + Stealth hangs out in the room with his teammates, buffing and healing but not blasting and thus drawing no aggro. Malta mob fires a shot from one of those weird cone-effect handguns they carry, the ones where there's a sudden "smack" sound and you look around trying to figure out how you were shot. Poof! Stealth drops, now you're visible.

Or say ...

Force Field defender with Stealth stands behind the group, trying to keep everyone in Dispersion as much as possible. A Freakshow boss lobs a grenade into the group. Lacking personal bubbles, your defense isn't as good and so smack! You're hit by the aoe damage. Poof! Stealth drops, now you're visible.

Substitute Earth Thorn stalagmites, Nemesis flamethrowers, Malta stun grenades, Tsoo caltrops, Freakshow ball lightning, or any other mob attack which may catch you incidentally without your being targeted directly. I perceive this change as addressing stealthy defender-types who don't draw aggro because they don't attack mobs, even surviving team wipes as long as they stay out of sight. No aggro means reduced risk, therefore Statesman has less fun, and so there you have it.

Dropping stealth when you initiate the attack (rather than when it lands) is probably designed to stop controllers, blasters, etc., from relying on stealth for an effective alpha-strike. Declaration of intent to attack is now sufficient to draw everyone's attention. Thus more risk, therefore Statesman has fun.

Not kidding,
FCM

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Here's what we'll do: Wet Ice will no longer accept Def Enhancements. We'll increase the base def somewhat. Def Enhancements that are currently slotted will continue to have an effect, but players won't be able to slot new Def Enhancements into it.

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I don't want to be the one to bring this up, and maybe it's a dumb question, but ...

Clearly, this means that no one will be able to put new Def enhancements in WI ... but, for those who do already have Defs slotted in WI, can they continue combining new enhancements? In other words, suppose I have level 40 Defs slotted in that power when I5 goes live. Can I still combine those 40s with more 40s, and then when I hit 43 can I combine them with 45s to make +45s?

I don't recall any other situation where the ability to slot X enhancements was taken away after numerous people had already done so ... and so I'm curious how the mechanics would work. I don't actually have an Ice Tank, regardless.

-FCM

Best wishes to your brother, Jack.

You and I disagree on a lot of things with respect to Issues 4 and 5, but some things are more important.

Now about those "less important" things on which we disagree ...

Regards,
FCM

I don't have a fire tank character, though many of my friends do. I have nothing intelligent to say on the topic of fire tanks. That being the case, I'd like to use my one post in this topic to say ... outstanding post, Lodrezzon. If only they'd listen.

Issue 5 is killing my sg. The nerfs to tanks in general and burn in particular are only a few of the reasons. For me, it's the freakish remodeling of Controllers into something ... not controlly. Whatever the case, more and more of us are not hooked anymore. We're drifting away from the City, and it's probably too late to rescue the sg at this point. I wanted to get my Inv tank from 35 to 40 before I5, but I find I'm logging less and less every evening knowing what's on the way. It just doesn't seem as worthwhile. Ah well. Enough angst for now.

-FCM

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I like TA as a defender primary because it means my controller gets it as a secondary.

Basically I get two controller sets.

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Precisely. TA should either be a controller primary, or (like Dark) not available to controllers as a secondary ... for that reason.

Mostly a controller player,
FCM

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Any chance to lower the time it takes to complete these task forces? That and let you start them with just 4 people. In fact, all TF's should let you begin with just 4.

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Amen. All TFs should require no more than four to start.

Shard navigation baby steps are good I guess, but not really enough. I've spent time in the Shard. My flying/recalling bubbler used to ferry scraps and tanks to the Storm Palace. I've done a couple of the TFs, and skipped the others on account of bad reviews from other participants. The Shard is still dead since kora missions were (mercifully) broken.

There are too many Shard zones, and even with jump routes (which many of us have had for a while) navigation is still a royal pain. I think I understand the motivation in making a zone where some folks need flying/porting teammates; I really do ... but it's still a failed experiment. I've taken my speeder around some of the Shard zones with jump-paths marked, and while FBZ isn't too difficult to get around, the others are still miserable. Many of the jumps are tricky (yes, with all movement-enhancing toggles off), and you'll miss, and it will still be pointlessly frustrating. Frustration trumps motivation.

There should be no more than two Shard zones. Collapse Cascade and Chantry into FBZ (eliminating the need for the transporters), and keep the Storm Palace because it's just a very freaking cool zone. Re-route the Mole Point to the SP instead of Cascade. Leave the first three TFs collapsed into FBZ, and add some more mission content so that the Shard is competitive for 40-50 or at least 40-45. Finally, fix the whole "gravity geyser" concept for navigation. It was a cool idea ... it really was, but it just doesn't work in practice. Sort-of like the Shard itself.

My first character to break 40 spent time in the Shard running missions and a rare TF. A later character went there to participate in the kora madness until I got sick of it. One character since then went back to do a TF. That's all the time I've ever spent in the Shard, sadly. It's a beautiful zone.

-FCM