Fire_Away

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I don't see it being feasible to change sides without leaving your supergroup.

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That's how I see it too.

Plus, we SHOULD have to leave our group. I mean, a hero base is usually a publicly known place. If a hero turns into a villain, he would have to go into hiding (lair) or be arrested, right?

In my mind, this shouldn't even be a question...switch sides, get in a new SG/VG. It makes total sense to me.

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I'm with you on this one. My take is Going Rogue is about switching sides. It's not really about ambiguous allegience (you can't be a hero and a villain at the same time) or universal content (true heroes heading into villain territory or vice versa). Switch and a SG/VG change should follow suit.

I'm for anything to improve the fun and functionality of bases... including this. There was some speculation before we knew what the MA was that there would be a base/sg tie in but, alas, it was not to be.

Maybe the login tip is right... (paraphrasing) MA, you can't do that...yet.

So... you are in this room (the last room) in an Arachnos base where there's a big flyer. You may know the one I'm talking about. The super powerful ally you have with you sez "Let's defeat all in this room so that nobody sees me fly this thing out of here." [edit add: there is a lot more to the plot than this but you get the idea... the guy doesn't want to be seen leaving]. And you and the super powerful ally quickly and efficiently do a mop up job... mission end.

Of course, this particular arc is stuck in four star land with less than ten plays (due largely to me having no in game friends and my own distaste at promotion... but that is beside the point). The point is, I think you can do the defeat all in the last room thing that's not really a pain and makes sense.

Unfortunately, all arc mission descriptions only say "Defeat All Enemies"... there is no distinction for the last room [edit add: until you enter the mission where you do receive the defeat all in last room proviso]. So, knowing that the flag is an automatic "pass up" to many, my arc's obscurity is all but assured (which is fine with me, just wanted to demo the defeat all thing could be done...but you may not want to regardless).

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My recommendation is that if you're going to share the recipes, you might as well craft the enhancements and store those instead. You can put 100 in each enhancement table.

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It already exists,... it is this.

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I'll send you a pie recipe... you let me know if it's the same as having a pie.



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I want my pie recipe!

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Here you go.

Good discussion btw. Lots of stuff I had not considered before (like the mentality of hoarding, non enhancement recipes, workarounds, etc.). My position hasn't changed (still would like to see base recipe storage) but I can't say recipe storage is a game breaking top priority necessity either.

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My recommendation is that if you're going to share the recipes, you might as well craft the enhancements and store those instead. You can put 100 in each enhancement table.

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It already exists,... it is this.

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Ok so there's no choice right now but to do that with enhancements...but

I'll send you a pie recipe... you let me know if it's the same as having a pie.

And using the same logic...why should anyone be able to carry around, trade, sell, etc. recipes at all? You may as well just [edit add: be forced to] craft the enhancements...Right?

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(2) an explanation of the numbers beyond the single word of "hoarding" (does 30-0-100 really make the most sense?).

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Don't bother hoping to get numbers. They won't give them to us. Hoarding isn't about numbers anyway it's about a mentality.

It doesn't matter how much storage we are allowed in game, no matter the amount we are going to use as much as we can. We aren't greedy little misers, we are just trying to save what we need for when we need it. The end result however is that a lot of stuff ends up sitting in storage unused and forgotten.

Hell, I'm in an SG that still has 10,000+ pieces of base salvage.

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I kind of hear what you are saying and I really do not disagree in principle with most of it but...

We already have numbers for storage...they just don't seem to make a heck of a lot of sense to me. I can't, for example, understand why it's theoretically ok to have up to 1800 enhancements stored in a base but not one recipe (other than the obvious "We are devs and we said so"). I mean, to me it would be better if storage was still "limited" but "universal".

The buzzword I hear elsewhere from the red names is "datamining". Maybe one day some of that will filter down to this and there will be a mod (or at least a better understanding of why things are the way they are).

Hey, what can I say? In spite of all indications otherwise for quite some time I try to remain an optimist.

[Edit add: If they do undertake an analysis and the "answer" is: "Gee Fire_Away, thanks for the tip. There is still way too much storage in bases and we need to cut back more." I guess I would have gotten what I deserved huh? ]

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I would also lean towards anything that has greater utility to the rank and file sg member (not just the base designer).


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What do you mean by that?

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I mean that...when it comes to my personal desires for bases (yours may be different) and there is a need to prioritize efforts I would choose things that impact everyone that uses a base first over new decorative and editing items for a base designer.

Granting all in game functionality (market, tailor, etc.) to bases would be, as I mentioned, a good start and would have the desired effect (good for everyone) . But I'd like to see the effort go much further. For example, I would choose a relook/ modification of base IO/event salvage and recipe storage (global benefit) over say the ability to make a second floor easier. Or, I would give everyone in an sg the ability to make their own apartment in a base (w/o granting base wide editing access) using existing tools over giving one person (base designer) new tools.

The op does not appear to find more decorating capability a pressing need and I agree. And yet some parts of this thread seem to have morphed into a call for that.

Good to see some first time posters weighing in. Welcome, by the way, to the base construction forum (all in all, some pretty helpful and friendly people...except perhaps me when I get cranky).

When it comes to this whole storage thing (salvage, recipes, and enhancements...the works), right now, I'd like to see something like this from a red name: "We have heard a lot from the player community on this issue and we've taken another look at the whole base storage situation. Based on that review we have decided to modify the mix of 30 salvage, 0 recipe, and 100 enhancements to ... because...".

That will, of course, trigger its own controversy (cause there is no way new numbers will please everyone). But in the long run I think it would be beneficial. At least there would be (1) an acknowledgment of player input and (2) an explanation of the numbers beyond the single word of "hoarding" (does 30-0-100 really make the most sense?).

But, unfortunately, such announcements from the devs have been few and far between... and thus the calls for a modification continue.

I'm with the op (been there a long time). More base functionality please... and not just... decorative or editing items. I would choose, as a start, incorporating all in game functional aspects (market, tailor, vendors, trainer, etc) into bases over say...more styles. That would seem to me to be a relatively safe course to undertake. I would also lean towards anything that has greater utility to the rank and file sg member (not just the base designer).

I read Cardiff_Giant's post a couple of times with great interest. It covers a lot of ground. The idea of being careful of asking for "base love" because you may have no idea of the form that "love" might take is something I had not heard before...but if past is prolouge, it certainly holds true.

I too would like to see base raids (sg base related battles) return in some form. Given, C_G's comments (which I fully agree with), I speculate it would have to be even more compartimentalized to a specific area or room(s) than the opt in/ opt out option the dev's have stated would be the case. That is... if raids return ever at all.

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Solo bases are the exception and not the rule in comic books.

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Well, tell that to the super guy with the Fortress of Solitude.

Gotta be careful with those blanket type statements (i.e. Bases are for groups).

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Did you read the rest of what he said or just stop there? Superman is (I think) the only major superhero with a "one-man sg-base" that he didn't mention. Exception doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, it means that it's rare.

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Here we go. Just what I wanted to avoid. Did you read where I said "no one said things in absloute terms" or "Not out to pick an argument" or "may be more solo bases [i.e. it may be less rare...in CoX terms] than ppl might, at first glance, think "?

I give up.

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Solo bases are the exception and not the rule in comic books.

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Well, tell that to the super guy with the Fortress of Solitude.

Gotta be careful with those blanket type statements (i.e. Bases are for groups). While I agree with the flavor of most of the advice given so far (and no one said things in absolute terms), solo bases in CoX are certainly doable (more so with the recent reduction in prices and rent). It does require some effort/patience to raise the necessary prestige capital and there is a significant "hump" between the Oversight Center level and greater things... but it's been done. Also, lots of folks have been lucky (or unlucky depending on your point of view) enough to pretty much inherit a base after the departure of others.

Not out to pick an argument but there may be more solo bases out there than ppl might, at first glance, think.

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When CoV originally came out, one of the pack in collectors items was a poster with a "villains vs heroes battle scene". On the veeery far right hand side of that scene behind Ghost Widow was a character that was a creepy mixture of Tarantula Mistress and Spider Crab. What was that thing, and why haven't we ever heard or seen from it again? It appears to have been retconned out of existence like an out-of -favor member of the Communist party during Uncle Joe's heyday.

Someone thought it might be the once-mentioned and never spoken of again Weaver One.

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Got a link?

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The ad appears in pretty much all the Top Cow comics. I just went to the front page and picked one at random and there it was. Epic Mecha Spider Person, far right side, silhouetted.

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I looked in the inside flap of my dusty old original CoV box and sure enough, she/he/it is there too just as described.

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Wow. Seems everyone admires the ebil marketeer billionarie but nobody wants to talk about where these mind boggling amounts of inf are coming from (or built upon).

There are multiple marketing guides. There really isn't any super secret marketing technique. Nor is anything nefarious going on. It's just a matter of learning the market, making efficient use of your transaction slots, and being patient.

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Grrr.... misunderstood again. This forum 'xplaining is hard. (1) Got no issue with marketing guides. Nothing nefarious going on there. The market is just buying and selling. (2) What about the inf currency supply side that generates the profits that are the rewards of following these guides in the first place? Anything nefarious going on there? [Hint: Check your in game e-mail].

And thanks for the revelation on viability of inf to prestige conversion.

And now, I promise, I really am done.

One last run at this one by me.

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How about all you carpetbagging ebil marketeers out there go back to where you belong? This is the base construction forum lol.

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Hope ppl realize I was jk here and great follow up Emberly in both tone and sincerity.

I think Hydrophidian described the base building aspect of market dynamics well.

I am not anti-market. The market is needed. You say you play the market. I say: great. You say you have billions in inf that you are looking to sink into prestige. I say: Wow, how did that happen? and What does creating more and more billionarie marketeers do for the rest of us?

The "high end" of the market has an unseemly underbelly. I am not a "casual" player. I've played CoX for a couple of hours nearly every day for over four years (no RL). I get good drops and I get bad drops. I buy (including say purple recipes) I need and I sell (including say purple recipes) I don't need. I'm not an ebil marketeer... but I'm not a fool on the value of stuff in the market either.

Know what? I've never come close to having a billion inf. And ppl are talking about throwing huge chunks of inf down a prestige rat hole (cause let's face it, given the exchange rate, there are much better avenues to gain prestige)? Wow. Seems everyone admires the ebil marketeer billionarie but nobody wants to talk about where these mind boggling amounts of inf are coming from (or built upon).

In the high end market of today we are rapidly reaching the point where ppl are forced to be an ebil marketeer on the one hand and a farmer (or to buy from a farmer) on the other hand to participate. What does this do to the "health" of the game?

I speculate that the devs have already seen this problem developing and one of their early answers has been "alternate currencies" (thus merits, Vanguard merits, tickets, etc.). Perhaps other measures are forthcoming. I hope so.

You can shrug all this off as me "not understanding supply and demand" or "being just envious of ebil marketeer success" or whatever you like. But that is not the case. Anyway, I gave this issue one last shot. Hope it helped some to some. Enough from me on this topic.

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I can tell you now, "Ebil Marketeers" aren't the ones buying inf from inf farmers. They don't need to. I highly doubt inf farmers use price gouging to make their inf, because farming for valuable drops and selling them on the market is a much more profitable activity than trading (and profitable trading requires offline time).

I'll stop now. I'm definitely off-topic.

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Oh my gosh... you are right about one thing....we are are off topic. How about all you carpetbagging ebil marketeers out there go back to where you belong? This is the base construction forum lol.

Otherwise my friend... you misunderstand. Why of course the ebil marketeer doesn't "buy" from the inf farmer. But...how do you think the ebil marketeer gets to be ebil rich? Where does the billions in inf (which is needed if we are talking meaningful inf to prestige conversion) come from to pay the ebil marketeer? Do you think that some of it might be from City of Farming perhaps? (RL money transfers from inf gold spammers and other exploitive and non exploitive farming perhaps... some stuff that really doesn't benefit the gaming community as a whole? Does that kinda explain when I talk about for "winners"...individual ebil marketeers, to make billions there has to be "losers"?) Geez. I'm no econ wiz and again, this isn't the place for it, but... I guess my points are not coming across very clearly are they?

My goal was to provide some insight on why there may be some disparity between being a "marketeer" and being a "base builder". The two are not necessiarily mutually exclusive activities by any means. However, the truth is: (1) The base building community was forced, with I13, to make concessions to the market and (2) The exchange rate is such that individuals would have to undertake massive amounts of market play for this to be beneficial from a prestige standpoint (With select individuals making billions in inf with all that entails and does to the community at large. If you do not see how gold spammers' sales impact this equation that's ok. I'd rather not muddy the waters with that discussion anymore anyway.)

And I did not see anything "blow up"... at least in what I said.

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This thread was very confusing! Why do people hate the market? I don't understand why there is a huge division between base builders and people who use the market. Is using the market a playstyle now? I just throw things on there, buy things as I need them, you know, use it as intended. Over time I've gotten a sense of what things are worth; does that make me a marketer? I also built my SG base and these two aspects of play did not negatively impact each other. In fact, having a base lets me use the market better (storage of stuff like enhancements and salvage) and having the market lets me build stuff in my base easier (all the crap that you need to build like teleporters). The two parts of the game work great together!

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Please allow me to present a different perspective (and like I've stated before I consider the market to be a necessity).

For every "winner" making billions in the market there is a "loser"... directly or indirectly. And in some cases, the "loser" is all of us. Here's a thought: Do you enjoy the whole inf farmer spam e-mail deluge? Why do these guys exist? Where's all that inf they are selling going? So who gets bothered by what farmers do and who rings up the inf cash register in the end? [Edit add: And this, if I read it right, is what was being touted here: "Despite the exchange rate, make billions in the market to convert to prestige to improve your base."]

The whole market thing is a game within a game. The extent you play it and enjoy it is up to you. I bear no malice toward those that do [edit add: legitimately that is]

But I certainly understand why others choose to use the market for "necessities" only (how you define necessity is really up to you). With I13, the base builder may be forced to play the market for salvage purposes...but that doesn't mean he or she likes the activity.

It's a small step FROM "Yuck, We gotta play the market now for salvage for our base." and "Yuck, a 30 item limit on base salvage storage because of the market." TO "I hate the market". Not everyone takes that step because they rather enjoy the market and market play... but some do.

This really is a cleaver concept. I kinda like the idea of: Step 1 - Put a "box" around "it", Step 2- Name it, and Step 3 - Ready to highlight and move it, copy it, edit it, or delete it.

Fantastic... or still too much to ask for? Ok, skip step 2 (reluctantly cause naming your stuff would be very cool) and just make the box a temporary thing. Still too much? Ok, forget about copy, and just do edits and deletes as they are done now... but keep the highlight and move thing.

In other words, any piece of OP's idea would be great!

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Wrong forum for this, try Mission Architect: Stories and Lore...

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Whoops, you are right. Introvert's nightmare. First time in four years of reading the forums and one year since registering that I have found the nerve to create a thread... and I put it in the wrong place. Yep, that's me! Sorry about that.

Got a decent MA arc? Not a member of a large sg or forum cartel? Has your arc been published for two weeks or more with less than say 15 ratings? Not an "ad-man/woman" promoter? Find the forum "signature" arc ads tacky? Not into long queues for "critical review"?

Take a chance! Tell us the arc number here and watch your rating played numbers go up. What do you have to lose? Your arc right now has been just sitting there ignored for too long. Get in the game!

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It would have been nice if this is what happened to mine. I could have handled it.

BUT, I received ZERO feedback on what was wrong with my arc. And I will repeat ZERO feedback. All I got were 2 star ratings and not ONE SINGLE person gave me any indication as to what was wrong with it.

How is someone suppose to improved their arc if no one leaves feedback?????

So I just unpublished it and gave up.

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I tried your arc and I have to say it is decent but it needs some TLC. I ended up giving a very conflicted 3 stars because I really wanted to give it 4 stars. I would say spend a little more time on it, add more details, make sure the flow of text works and is free of grammar/spelling errors. I think everything visual works and the custom mobs are great! The plot has good pacing and the story is good. Just polish up the text, add more details (descriptions) and I promise to give you a better rating.

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This feedback (and anachrodragon's) is like gold. It's none of my business, but I sincerely hope the author takes these comments to heart. They seem to be given in the best possible spirit. If everyone rated and commented in a similar fashion we would not have a problem. But that, unfortunately, is not often the case in my experience.

I can confirm that the devs cited "market impacts" as the rationale for salvage rack limitations (Incidently, the whole base salvage conversion thing was an "ugly" forum scene during I13 beta... perhaps overshadowed somewhat in scale by the ugliness of PvP changes but still there. I know. I still have the scars [all for naught] from arguing against that one lol).

It's funny you mention bases vis a vis the market. My personal view is that bases are a necessary "good" and that the market is a necessary "ebil" (with no offense towards any particular marketeer and what he/she does).

Bases do (and have SO much more potential if given the attention they deserve to) bring whole groups of players together. It's a pleasure and fun and a means of both utility and self expression.

My market play is an individual cause to get what I need for either myself or now salvage for my base. I'm not out (my choice I fully understand) to make mounds of inf... or make a "killing" off another player. My visits to the market are a "chore" and sometimes a test of patience (not a test in an "anger" sense but a test of my willingness to actually wait for favorable pricing... whether buying or selling).

Anyway, I draw no major conclusions from the above... but it most certainly describes my state of mind.

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Writing missions is like any creative writing endeavor. A good writer has a grasp of what has worked well before (that is, "knows the rules"), and uses that knowledge to put a twist on that to make something that satisfies the same needs in a novel way.

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I hear what you are saying and I bear no malice towards the OP or yourself. It's just that when it comes to the MA in general, I would like to see a whole lot more on the creative side and a whole lot less conformity than what we are currently seeing for arcs to be considered in the "great" class.

A lot of the points in this guide to me are at the "high school English level" (just a step above "check your spelling"). I cannot argue that it's bad advice...just not necessarily a blueprint to greatness (or even possibly "goodness"). I guess my expectations are a bit higher. And, like I said, I'm not a big fan of numbered rules for creative endeavors in the first place.

Anyway, I've had my say and appreciate being heard. I hope that those that need the structure or some insight into the basics find this guide useful. Nothing more from me on this topic.

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I submitted Temple Sinistratus ^_^.


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Total villain at heart here. I sure like the name and look forward to checking this base out in the Scoop.

Meh, not a big fan of the idea that following "rules" will make an arc "great". Cookie cutter rules produce cookie cutter arcs. But will agree that guide has a modicum of common sense that bears consideration.