Evangel

ah, i have started saving the characters costume before continuing (but not loading it up again, just saving as a backup). I'll try it again without the save and see if it makes a difference.

forum:

basic forum is up at

http://infernal.faelkeep.com/phpBB2/index.php

registration requires an email address (admin approval for activation of accounts), which will not be used for anythign other than forum communication and will not be stored anywhere except in the forum DB itself (you can choose to have the email viewable or not to other posters)

anyone not want to use a personal email, PM me here with your SG character name and I'll set you up a mailbox @infernal.faelkeep.com , this can be forwarded to any otehr mail accoutn you want or it can be stored on the server (but if its on the server, its subject to mailbox size limits and general administration).

Once registered, you can check out the different forum styles by changing it in your profile. Once we have a concensus on what style we want, I'll get to work on customisation.

Right now, I'm working on the basics for a front page for http://infernal.faelkeep.com . red and black and flames are the theme I'm working with until we get something settled on.(faelkeep is an old domain I had so I set up infernal as a sub-domain. Fael is an old Irish word for wolf in case you lose sleep over it and the site was originally going to be a repository for my ideas for PnP games but laziness o'erwhelmed me). For those who really arent trusting of posting onto a strangers website, a whois of the domain name will turn up more than enough information about me to be able to contact or report me easily

anyway, enough rambling, suggestions welcome either here, or by PM on this board or by Pm on the SG forum (username LoLth) or at the admin address infernal@faelkeep.com. feel free to suggest category order, forum requests or deletions etc. any help on code of conduct /rules would be gratefully accepted and of course a list of useful links for a links section would be muchly appreciated.

I'd really like to give a scrapper a proper run (I've always played blaster).

so Sword/shield scrapper - supposed to be afire shield but once i logge din it turned to a round bit of wood must see abotu fixing that (anyone got lighter fluid and a match?).

I'll also draw up defender and controller alts to make up any shortfall we have in ATs.

read through to page 7 of this forum but suprised to see no mention of this:

when I create a character (tank or scrapper) and select the shield powerest all is good. I choose powers, I spend possibly longer than I should in teh costume designer and then I change names until I get one that I want and is available

then I start to play and the shield is wrong... instead of my sturdy flaming shield shaped shield I have what looks to be a flattened bottle top made out of wood.... its happened 5 times out of 6 now

have I missed a bug report / post on this ? I've /bug'ed it twice in game (when I13 first got released) but havent heard anything back..

any ideas ?

to anyone else who doesnt know the answers to the above:

no you wont be able to make maps though a level editor has been mentioned but wont be available at release.

as for the second:
Likewise mobs will spawn on the maps at preset points.

so, no, it doesnt answer that one. preset points:

can you choose a subset of preset points ?
is it random ?
is it all of them ?

it is importnat as the pacing of a level , the build to finale or the calm between the storms can be seriously thrown off course by the level and placement of spawns. Hopefulyl the level editor will allow for spawn point placement and possibly a bit of randomness thrown in for good measure.

hey wow. the censored bit in my post above makes it seem much ruder than it was intended to be. Sorry FFM, its not actually a rude word. think of an alternative way of saying intelligent or well dressed pair of buttocks.

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any word on the ability to customise the map or if we can actually set teh spawn point for enemies instead of "front" "middle" and "back" of the map ?

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If you read the linked thread, you'd know the answer to both these questions.

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no need to be p*ssy about it. I'm at work and dont have time to read the whole thing (internet was down over the weekend and is only back today). I asked a polite question but instead of a helpful answer or just ignoring the post you elected to be a [censored]. thank you.

any word on the ability to customise the map or if we can actually set teh spawn point for enemies instead of "front" "middle" and "back" of the map ?

I'm concentrating on two toon this weekend.

Melvin (lvl 35 MM - ITF anyone ?)
AlwaysUltra - lvl - 25 emp fender.

melvin will be the main focus so if anyone is arranging anything redside and fancies some robo goodness as company, give me a shout if you see me online

you need to sort out your dates

monday 19th
tuesday 20th
wednesday 21st

would love to have a go at these but have already made alternative plans....

well , FIFTH would appear to be a slip of the start of fifth column but that would be a bit too obvious and is most likely exactly the conclusion players are expected to jump to.

my question would be , what other groups are there that are currently divided into 4 factions ?

or, Rikti , rikti traditionalist, peacebringer , warshade = 4 alien types. the 5th to appear was the shivan was it ?

was my first time doing the trial and had a great time. thanks for the team! hydra killed me twice... one shot kills and purple rikti spawning into melee range = not good for blaster . thanks for the rezzes and thanks for organising sarg.

@Techbot : oi! hands off my beanbags!

slotted with accuracy, duration and a knockback proc this is one of my staple powers, gives you plenty of time to finish off the rest or, if its a lone lieutenant/boss, gives time to get off a sniper shot followed swiftly by ... another beanbag

I'll be bringing along Evangel lvl 50 AR/Elec Blaster. Thanks for the heads up Nightmarer.

hey sarg,

any chance you can stick me down as a sub ?

Well, I for one will happily take par tin the next rikti rage on defiant. I had great fun on this one.

However, I think we shoul dset a very ambitious goal, to completely stop a rikti invasion force.

gather 100 heroes, get to a zone as soon as the warning is sounded, take up positions and destroy every single ship passing through.

now that would be a challenge.

thats them... just realised my typo in my post. perhaps electromegantic grenades are the bigger versions

/signed but with one condition. cost.

they should cost a good bit because say you know your next mission is against mechmen and hover bots, you go and buy tons of electromegantic grendaes (i think thats the name, you get it in villain side during a mayhem mission). These would make the mission much easier, if the inf reward fo rthe mission outweighs the cost of the power you could end up with a form of farming (not to mention the XP earned).

But generic things like the stolen SMG power should be cheap enough. it doesnt do a huge amount of damage lowers defense by an amount comparable to current powers.

a blaster that always fails every pull attempt and gets his group swamped in mobs ? blastard ?

The ability to modify and set gravity and inertia on a zone or instance basis.

this would allow for underwater zones (low gravity "pulling" toward surface unless you weigh a lot (or you've drowned!) , space (zero gravity, zero inertia reduction), space station: artificial gravity of .5 , how about a map based on a huge derelict Rikti ship orbiting the earth where the first part of the mission is to access a portal to the ships teleport room via an underwater passage you then teleport to the ship and have to find your way to the gravity control room through a zero-g environment and turn on the artificial gravity (.5 g)

it would also give rise to the possibility of gravity based powersets (gravity manipulation for a controller, gravity blast for a blaster).

thanks for the comments (and sorry for the length of the post , didnt meant to stretch the attention span)

To answer some of the questions:

I personally enjoy working on my main level 50 to build up his powers but at some stage this is going to stop, or I will have a rpeference for one level 50 and not another. What I am suggesting is an alternative to this form of end game scenario.

Instead your level 50 now becomes part of the game background. other players will see their plans and machinations evolve. You can be a famous hero or people can battle the Red uniformed Guardsmen of DOOOOOOOOM and discover your villain as an adversary or count your hero as an ally ( the option to trade information object would potentially allow a Leader to form a type of mission arc for actual players perhaps posting rewards for completion of the individual missions, just not with the same fluidity of the established contacts).

As for it being Command and conquerish... I was aiming for more of an Evil Genius feel to it. It does become more management than actual play , although one option I would love to see would be the ability to "jump" into an underling and play a mission as a lieutenant, boss, EB or villain/hero in your employment with whatever forces you assign to the mission as allies on the map - yes, a bit complicated and more than likely impossible but I can always hope! .

What does the player actually do ?
- if possible play missions as their underling , maybe even making an appearance themselves but defeat would have to have serious ramifications to make this a risky undertaking.
- base building : you get to design a secret lair for others to try to infiltrate. devising trap rooms etc in Evil Genius was rgeat fun (especially when you made a decoy base with a series of horrible death traps and watch as agents met their grisly end)
- empire building / regional warfare between organisations
- objectives (not fleshed out) that could include a race for a relic that opens up new powers and gives a distinct advantage over other organisations.

Placement of the bases in co-op and PvP zones would give non-pvpers a reason to visit those zones (I'm not big on PvP myself but I understand why people like it and would love to see the zones get a bit more traffic). This would give rise to impromptu PvP rather than just the current "planned" battles. (do many people go to PvP zones on the off chance of meeting an enemy ? The placement would also leave the rest of the zones free from any pvP / Gang v gang warfare.

As to it being something that players would either LOVE or HATE.. isnt tha tthe same with every game or game mode? look at PvP for example. I would love to play gang v gang but as I said I'm not big on single PvP myself so I would see this as a halfway house alternative.

Half Baked ? yes it is. I havent put thought into how the numbers would work. I havent thought about the potential story lines , mission arcs, or how the organisations would interact fully with one another (is it fair for example for two organisatiosn to start in the exact same spot ? Is it fair to have an organisation start in an area controlled by an already established and powerful adversary ? ).

Disclaimer: I know that this isnt possible under the current system but with architect coming out maybe it could be an extension of that in the future...


I've been reading posts about "i've hit 50, what now". Not everyone wants to badge hunt and not everyone wants to create a new toon (what happens if you've created every toon <unlikely but possible> already ?

Introducing OFSoCP: Over Fifty System of Character Progression)

The basic idea: you've hit fifty what now? well you need to continue accumulating power in a different way, not personal power but organisational power.. Villains evolve into Crimelords, heroes naturally become leaders or Icons of a new generation.

How to qualify: you must have a character at level 50. you then choose to retire that character from active adventuring and move him/her/it (I'll just use the male pronoun for laziness sake from now on) into an administrative role. *that character is no longer playable in TFs/ missions / etc* That character can no longer be an active member of a supergroup (though he can have an affiliation - see later section - "the social side of being in charge" )

The character is now a level 1 Crimelord / Icon

Organisation: the player must set up an organisation complete with primary and secondary colours, name, motto, symbol\emblem.

the type of leadership and organisation is based on the character's origin

Origin: villain title / hero title
Natural: Kingpin / Captain
Mutation: Overlord / Evolutionary
Magic: Archfiend / Mystic
Tech: Technocrat / Innovator
Science: Master / Builder

Level 50 Epics can also become leaders:
Warshade: evil: Invader , good: Protector
Peacebringer : good: Luminary
Widow: evil: matriarch
Soldier of arachnos: evil: General good: Renegade


In addition, each tpye of leader gets to choose a path to power (primary path and secondary path) each of which bestows advantages on the organisation members and gives access to items or abilities.

(currently I have only really thought about the types of path and not the specifics - at least not fully)

Paths to Power:

Martial : the leader seeks dominance through force of arms and runs the organisation with military discipline. martial organisations generally have tougher hirelings and access to better conventional hardware.

Politics: the power of the spoken word (and the pulled string) should never be underestimated. Political influence allows many crimes to be committed in full public view and be heralded as "policy". of course ,the talking side of things sometimes needs help in getting the message across. political organisations generally have lower public profiles with public servants being convinced to look the other way and usually do better out of any alliances

Faith: Belief is a powerful thing. It can cause followers to do almost anything in the name of their tenets. Organisations based on faith tend to have followers utterly dedicated to their cause and many more that they can call on if required.

Each type of leader has a different set of options available within the paths, sometimes these options differ in flavour but others differ radically in application.

eg: Faith for Mystic might be belief in a powerful being that protects all living things whereas Faith for a Master might be based on a drug that his minions are addicted to. Politics for an Evolutionary might be a fight for equal rights for mutants while politics for an Invader might be corruption of the city council to hide construction of portal sites....

Each path should have 10 powers with some variance between leader types. Secondary paths can only choose up to the tier 7 power.

In addition the third path can be chosen (along with specific pools) at intervals during levelling.

the choice of primary path has an overall effect on the characters followers.
Martial: bonus health
Politics: bonus defense
Faith: cheaper maintenance

Attributes:
Leaders have X attributes to keep track of:

Notoriety / Fame: earned by doing missions and patrolling. this denotes the level of opposition the leaders organisation can face

Control Point Rate: the rate at which control points are regenerated after being spent

Control point Pool: the current level of control points available

Control point Cost: the per-cycle expenditure of control points

Pool Max: the maximum number of Control points the leader can hold at any one time.

Eg: a leader requires 100 fame to progress to level 2, thus allowing more abilities and expansion but also exposing him to greater risk.

Control points are:
Rate: 10
Pool: 5
Cost: 5
Max: 30

meaning that the leader generates 10 Cps per cycle (day/night cycle possibly) , has 5 currently available, expends 5 per cycle on upkeep and can store a maximum of 30.

control points are used for everyhting from Outfitting a site for a base, recruiting and maintaining underlings and hiring / purchase of one off specials.



Underlings:
whats the point in being a leader without having someone to lead.
The basic member of the organisation is the minion. Depending on the level of the Leader, there can be multiple types of minions available. these are designed in much the same way as a character is made (but more basic). colours, uniform style, powerset, attacks, resistances, defenses. Each addition to a basic 1 attack, standard health, no resistance, no defense has a point cost. this cost determines the Control Point cost of the minion. The control point (CP) cost is deducted from the leaders CP pool which rises as the leaders level rises , thus allowing for more minions to be controlled. If a minion is defeated more can be recruited actively (through powers) or they will naturally rejoin up to the CP limit (like replaces like unless the leader decides to change the make up of his forces). Minion starting levels have a base set on the level of the zone they are recruited from - the higher the level the higher their CP cost.

Once enough minions are recruited, the leader will need to delegate and minions can be promoted to Lieutenants. A maximum of 1 lieutenant can be purchased for every 6 minions. Lieutenants that are defeated are automatically replaced from the pool of minions up to the maximum of 1 per 6 minions. Lieutenants have additional abilities above those of the standard minion (think of the mastermind's equip ability)

For every 6 lieutenants a leader can train up a Boss. Bosses are a one off CP cost and are not automatically re-recruited. Instead they have to be re-trained from the lieutenant pool.

At certain levels Villains (heroes) and arch-villains (super-heroes) will become available to the leader. Sometimes these make an offer directly, sometimes they will put out a general call and will sign up to the highest bidder. Differences in Paths can have an effect on the cost and maintenance of the special character (eg: a tech villain will cost less for a technocrat to hire and maintain than for a Master, similarly a martial primary tech villain will cost more for a Faith technocrat to hire than a faith based villain).

The maximum number of specials is based on the number of properties available to the leader. (see holdings).

Specials, once defeated , can be healed (at a cost in CPs), Rescued (with an investment in manpower), or cut loose (back on the market , possibly in need of rescue before hirable).




Holdings:
Every organisation needs a base of operations. Unfortunately, in CoX all organisations must start small and work their way up the chain. Zones available for base locations are selected from those with co-op access or PvP initially but other areas can be moved into over time.

bases are designed using the mission editor , or preferably, an upgraded version of the mission editor that allows for basic placement of objects and limited layout changes.

Base sizes:
Hideout: small map
Outpost: medium map
Base: large map
HQ: very large map (can only have one)

The Leader starts with a single Hideout (the most basic of bases) consisting of a doorway and a small map beyond.

At creation the leader chooses the zone he will set up in and the area within that zone. he is then assigned a random doorway in that area to act as his hideout entrance. (yes, this would make it possible for multiple organisations to have the same doorway but the only way around this I can see is to keep track of who has what and risk running out of starting points in a given area or zone). Starting minions recruited in that zone will be of a level appropriate to the area/zone.

As the leader progresses he can establish new locations or upgrade existing ones at a CP cost.

Bases have a minimum and maximum number of minions that can occupy them. The minimum must always be present within the base and are not available for expeditions or missions.


Items: Items and objects can be bought using CPs to outfit a base (defense turret, stun grenade launcher, teleport supressor, base teleport link etc). If destroyed by a raid the item must be bought again.

If enough of your minions are defeated a hero or villain or rival organisation has a chance to discover where your base is located. If they find out , they can stage either a raid (rival organisation) or an assault (like a newspaper mission) or they can actually sell the location to the highest bidder! Cheek!

So, you've got an organisation and some minions to staff it. what now ?

Well this section is still being worked on but basic ideas are :

Mission:
Establish foothold (defeat rival gangs/stop crimes/clear out creatures)
Patrol a portion of the staff are sent off on patrol
Gather intel
Raid/steal/protect: following intel, you send a force off to perform a specific task.

It is important to know that , while on a mission the force will actually walk along the streets. If the mission is in another zone, the team will travel to that zone, traverse it and then return. they can be seen and interacted with by any players in the area and/or rival organisations.

The social side of being in Charge:
being a leader is more than just sending minions off to do missions.There are social aspects involved as well. sometimes it might be necessary to make a pact with another organisation or to join a league (a super group consisting of organisations) or even to make an alliance with a super group and share information.

pacts: non-aggression , the organisations forces will not attack one another
alliance: the organisations forces will aid each other if in the area, (note: this may be awkward if there are enemies that you have an alliance with both factions. personally I think it should be allowed and the leaders minions just wont get involved) .
Mutual defense: nearby forces from defense groups will help in base defense.
War: all other pacts are off. minions will actively hunt members of the rival organisation.

Pacts can be made whether or not both leaders are online (so yes, you can make a pact with your alts or declare war on an offline enemy)

Information sharing:
Like the current trade screen organisations can meet to trade information in fame/notoriety , items, objects, minions etc. trading is informally regulated. (both leaders agree on trade and its done).
Information objects can be anything that you have earned through missions, the location of a base, the code to a safe etc. once traded your organisation loses the ability to act on that information (cannot raid base, cannot do theft mission).


sort of it for now. What I'd like is for people to say what they think of the idea, comment on the mechanics, make suggestions for the powers or the rate of progression of the leaders. I'll put together soem actual numbers and ideas and develope a few examples that describe things a bit better.

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suck up? Me? never..
*quickly goes to cash the cheque and buys cookies*

Cookie anyone?

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awwww my browser isnt configured to accept cookies....

and yes, I was agreeing to Coin_'s suggestion, just expanding it a bit. There is a picture of your hero in the ID screen, that must come from somewhere. the image would be a snapshot of the picture (in 3d form) at the time the sculpture is created and then altered to suit the medium (stone, bronze etc) used. Animations (if any) could be from the set of emotes (i'll have a flex 1 set off every ten minutes please!).

Sg base hall of fame would be great (giant statue... unfortunately not really a goer imho). Choice of arcane or tech statue:

base:
Arcane: stone bust
Tech: copper plaque with image.

upgrade 1
arcane = stone replica
tech = hologram of shoulders and head

upgrade 2:
arcane: silver
tech: hologram of body

upgrade 3:
arcance: gold
tech: moving hologram of body

Personally I'm looking forward to the multi build if only because I can have my "adventuring" build with top notch (not necessarily purple) IOs and my Ouroborus Build with lower powered IOs and SOs so I dont lose as much enhancing when I get scaled too low

change zombie apocalypse to zombie infection for year round undead goodness:

zombie attacks low level hellion, wins, hellion becomes 80% zombie, 15% lieutenant (revenant?), 5% corpse...

Lieutenants: 60% zombie , 25% lieutenant, 10% boss , 5% corpse

Boss: 15% Boss, 50% zombie, 30% lieutenant, 5% EB

EB: 55% zombie, 30% lieutenant, 10% Boss, 5% carrier

Carriers: a carrier is not a combative creature, instead is find a cemetary and burrows into the ground where it gestates and infects the corpses around it spawning 1-10 zombies after a random interval.

once 10 bosses are created, apocalyse starts and continues until the 10 bosses have been hunted down (which isnt too hard as they seek out heroes for some super powered munchy goodness). Once apocalypse starts, EBs have a 5% chance of being spawned from each kill a Boss makes.

During this time, the zombies rampage, attacking random mobs and adding to their horde (hmmm, zombie Lusca anyone ? )

difference from the current setup:

The zombies dont spawn, they are on the map as generic mobs hostile to all factions except their own.

Zombies are always around , they just have varying degrees of scarcity.

Zombie levels are tied to the mobs they defeat and the zone they spawn in. (only blue or higher count toward badges)

Zombies can be herded

Depleting the zombie food supply depletes zombie growth rate.

Personally I'd love citizens to be targetable by zombies for conversion to low level plague carriers.