Skimmed over this but you still have to remember 50s are only one part of the playerbase. As long as it doesn't take up too much dev time, it shouldn't hurt.
Or maybe it will...not everything good on paper is good in reality. Tbh if it comes out it will be in the love it or hate it bag, the FOR people will say "it makes those old 50s fresh again" and AGAINST people will say "50s are too small part of the playerbase and it will consume too much dev time" but IMHO I wouldn't mind it, maybe use it for one of my 50s but I wouldn't like to see too much dev time on it.
So, /half-signed. There's good points and bad points, but at the end of the day its "love it or hate it"...
Thing is...
Inventions are the Over 50 Charater Progression System.
Really... that's what they're there for.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
Thing is...
Inventions are the Over 50 Charater Progression System.
Really... that's what they're there for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then why are there pre-50 IOs?
Which dev said this?
PRAF, tell him!
You'd have to dig around in the posts the devs made prior to the Invention release issue. Specifically, the game was not rebalanced to take into account IOs, and specifically sets. They are an entirely optional feature of the game which are mostly of use to 50s.
And why are there pre-50 IOs... have you actually bothered looking at the values they give?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
PRAF, tell him!
You'd have to dig around in the posts the devs made prior to the Invention release issue. And why are there pre-50 IOs... have you actually bothered looking at the values they give?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and it's not too bright. It still has a effect though.
Also, PRAF isn't here, so you're on your own for now.
Invention System is also a case of FARM FOR IT!!! and that just is pratically farming at level 50. So in reality terms it can't really be called the 50 progressing, since you already enhance your stats, which could be done with enhancements before level 50.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PRAF, tell him!
You'd have to dig around in the posts the devs made prior to the Invention release issue. And why are there pre-50 IOs... have you actually bothered looking at the values they give?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and it's not too bright. It still has a effect though.
Also, PRAF isn't here, so you're on your own for now.
Invention System is also a case of FARM FOR IT!!! and that just is pratically farming at level 50. So in reality terms it can't really be called the 50 progressing, since you already enhance your stats, which could be done with enhancements before level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
*Yawn*
Inventions is what the original Post-50 upgrade content (Designed and shelved during the Emmeret Era) was turned into, the original intention of the system was to allow characters to upgrade their characters past the standard SO and HO combinations.
The system was implemented across the 10 - 50 level range as the Devs decided to allow all mobs a chance to drop invention salvage, but if levels 10 - 49 couldn't use it, what point would they have in using the system. And also because it was the main feature of the issue and they didn't want to drive away people who didn't have a 50.
If you call this a half baked idea I wonder about your non half baked ideas.
To be honest this sounds like not an addition to this game but to a whole new game. I see problems with retiring the 50. Such a shame to retire someone especially after spending a few 1000 millions on those purples.
Then I am having trouble about what you actually do. It sounds like an old style command and conquer game. Send out peasant to gather goodies. Build up, get better warriors, kill enemies.
So I wonder what you as player do in your setup? Because the interface we are stuck with is not the best suited for a subgame like you propose.
I assumre it is my post that you are referring to about the "50 now what"...
I got as far as "path to Power" and decided to go play WoW.
~ lol, only kidding wasn't that bad but seriously I don't have the attention span to finish reading your post. 
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
thanks for the comments 
(and sorry for the length of the post , didnt meant to stretch the attention span)
To answer some of the questions:
I personally enjoy working on my main level 50 to build up his powers but at some stage this is going to stop, or I will have a rpeference for one level 50 and not another. What I am suggesting is an alternative to this form of end game scenario.
Instead your level 50 now becomes part of the game background. other players will see their plans and machinations evolve. You can be a famous hero or people can battle the Red uniformed Guardsmen of DOOOOOOOOM and discover your villain as an adversary or count your hero as an ally ( the option to trade information object would potentially allow a Leader to form a type of mission arc for actual players perhaps posting rewards for completion of the individual missions, just not with the same fluidity of the established contacts).
As for it being Command and conquerish... I was aiming for more of an Evil Genius feel to it. It does become more management than actual play , although one option I would love to see would be the ability to "jump" into an underling and play a mission as a lieutenant, boss, EB or villain/hero in your employment with whatever forces you assign to the mission as allies on the map - yes, a bit complicated and more than likely impossible but I can always hope! .
What does the player actually do ?
- if possible play missions as their underling , maybe even making an appearance themselves but defeat would have to have serious ramifications to make this a risky undertaking.
- base building : you get to design a secret lair for others to try to infiltrate. devising trap rooms etc in Evil Genius was rgeat fun (especially when you made a decoy base with a series of horrible death traps and watch as agents met their grisly end)
- empire building / regional warfare between organisations
- objectives (not fleshed out) that could include a race for a relic that opens up new powers and gives a distinct advantage over other organisations.
Placement of the bases in co-op and PvP zones would give non-pvpers a reason to visit those zones (I'm not big on PvP myself but I understand why people like it and would love to see the zones get a bit more traffic). This would give rise to impromptu PvP rather than just the current "planned" battles. (do many people go to PvP zones on the off chance of meeting an enemy ? The placement would also leave the rest of the zones free from any pvP / Gang v gang warfare.
As to it being something that players would either LOVE or HATE.. isnt tha tthe same with every game or game mode? look at PvP for example. I would love to play gang v gang but as I said I'm not big on single PvP myself so I would see this as a halfway house alternative.
Half Baked ? yes it is. I havent put thought into how the numbers would work. I havent thought about the potential story lines , mission arcs, or how the organisations would interact fully with one another (is it fair for example for two organisatiosn to start in the exact same spot ? Is it fair to have an organisation start in an area controlled by an already established and powerful adversary ? ).
Man, looking forward your arcs in the Architect feature, honestly.
Most of your ideas deserve being nominated for the monthly Creative awards.
/em fancybow
Disclaimer: I know that this isnt possible under the current system but with architect coming out maybe it could be an extension of that in the future...
I've been reading posts about "i've hit 50, what now". Not everyone wants to badge hunt and not everyone wants to create a new toon (what happens if you've created every toon <unlikely but possible> already ?
Introducing OFSoCP: Over Fifty System of Character Progression)
The basic idea: you've hit fifty what now? well you need to continue accumulating power in a different way, not personal power but organisational power.. Villains evolve into Crimelords, heroes naturally become leaders or Icons of a new generation.
How to qualify: you must have a character at level 50. you then choose to retire that character from active adventuring and move him/her/it (I'll just use the male pronoun for laziness sake from now on) into an administrative role. *that character is no longer playable in TFs/ missions / etc* That character can no longer be an active member of a supergroup (though he can have an affiliation - see later section - "the social side of being in charge" )
The character is now a level 1 Crimelord / Icon
Organisation: the player must set up an organisation complete with primary and secondary colours, name, motto, symbol\emblem.
the type of leadership and organisation is based on the character's origin
Origin: villain title / hero title
Natural: Kingpin / Captain
Mutation: Overlord / Evolutionary
Magic: Archfiend / Mystic
Tech: Technocrat / Innovator
Science: Master / Builder
Level 50 Epics can also become leaders:
Warshade: evil: Invader , good: Protector
Peacebringer : good: Luminary
Widow: evil: matriarch
Soldier of arachnos: evil: General good: Renegade
In addition, each tpye of leader gets to choose a path to power (primary path and secondary path) each of which bestows advantages on the organisation members and gives access to items or abilities.
(currently I have only really thought about the types of path and not the specifics - at least not fully)
Paths to Power:
Martial : the leader seeks dominance through force of arms and runs the organisation with military discipline. martial organisations generally have tougher hirelings and access to better conventional hardware.
Politics: the power of the spoken word (and the pulled string) should never be underestimated. Political influence allows many crimes to be committed in full public view and be heralded as "policy". of course ,the talking side of things sometimes needs help in getting the message across. political organisations generally have lower public profiles with public servants being convinced to look the other way and usually do better out of any alliances
Faith: Belief is a powerful thing. It can cause followers to do almost anything in the name of their tenets. Organisations based on faith tend to have followers utterly dedicated to their cause and many more that they can call on if required.
Each type of leader has a different set of options available within the paths, sometimes these options differ in flavour but others differ radically in application.
eg: Faith for Mystic might be belief in a powerful being that protects all living things whereas Faith for a Master might be based on a drug that his minions are addicted to. Politics for an Evolutionary might be a fight for equal rights for mutants while politics for an Invader might be corruption of the city council to hide construction of portal sites....
Each path should have 10 powers with some variance between leader types. Secondary paths can only choose up to the tier 7 power.
In addition the third path can be chosen (along with specific pools) at intervals during levelling.
the choice of primary path has an overall effect on the characters followers.
Martial: bonus health
Politics: bonus defense
Faith: cheaper maintenance
Attributes:
Leaders have X attributes to keep track of:
Notoriety / Fame: earned by doing missions and patrolling. this denotes the level of opposition the leaders organisation can face
Control Point Rate: the rate at which control points are regenerated after being spent
Control point Pool: the current level of control points available
Control point Cost: the per-cycle expenditure of control points
Pool Max: the maximum number of Control points the leader can hold at any one time.
Eg: a leader requires 100 fame to progress to level 2, thus allowing more abilities and expansion but also exposing him to greater risk.
Control points are:
Rate: 10
Pool: 5
Cost: 5
Max: 30
meaning that the leader generates 10 Cps per cycle (day/night cycle possibly) , has 5 currently available, expends 5 per cycle on upkeep and can store a maximum of 30.
control points are used for everyhting from Outfitting a site for a base, recruiting and maintaining underlings and hiring / purchase of one off specials.
Underlings:
whats the point in being a leader without having someone to lead.
The basic member of the organisation is the minion. Depending on the level of the Leader, there can be multiple types of minions available. these are designed in much the same way as a character is made (but more basic). colours, uniform style, powerset, attacks, resistances, defenses. Each addition to a basic 1 attack, standard health, no resistance, no defense has a point cost. this cost determines the Control Point cost of the minion. The control point (CP) cost is deducted from the leaders CP pool which rises as the leaders level rises , thus allowing for more minions to be controlled. If a minion is defeated more can be recruited actively (through powers) or they will naturally rejoin up to the CP limit (like replaces like unless the leader decides to change the make up of his forces). Minion starting levels have a base set on the level of the zone they are recruited from - the higher the level the higher their CP cost.
Once enough minions are recruited, the leader will need to delegate and minions can be promoted to Lieutenants. A maximum of 1 lieutenant can be purchased for every 6 minions. Lieutenants that are defeated are automatically replaced from the pool of minions up to the maximum of 1 per 6 minions. Lieutenants have additional abilities above those of the standard minion (think of the mastermind's equip ability)
For every 6 lieutenants a leader can train up a Boss. Bosses are a one off CP cost and are not automatically re-recruited. Instead they have to be re-trained from the lieutenant pool.
At certain levels Villains (heroes) and arch-villains (super-heroes) will become available to the leader. Sometimes these make an offer directly, sometimes they will put out a general call and will sign up to the highest bidder. Differences in Paths can have an effect on the cost and maintenance of the special character (eg: a tech villain will cost less for a technocrat to hire and maintain than for a Master, similarly a martial primary tech villain will cost more for a Faith technocrat to hire than a faith based villain).
The maximum number of specials is based on the number of properties available to the leader. (see holdings).
Specials, once defeated , can be healed (at a cost in CPs), Rescued (with an investment in manpower), or cut loose (back on the market , possibly in need of rescue before hirable).
Holdings:
Every organisation needs a base of operations. Unfortunately, in CoX all organisations must start small and work their way up the chain. Zones available for base locations are selected from those with co-op access or PvP initially but other areas can be moved into over time.
bases are designed using the mission editor , or preferably, an upgraded version of the mission editor that allows for basic placement of objects and limited layout changes.
Base sizes:
Hideout: small map
Outpost: medium map
Base: large map
HQ: very large map (can only have one)
The Leader starts with a single Hideout (the most basic of bases) consisting of a doorway and a small map beyond.
At creation the leader chooses the zone he will set up in and the area within that zone. he is then assigned a random doorway in that area to act as his hideout entrance. (yes, this would make it possible for multiple organisations to have the same doorway but the only way around this I can see is to keep track of who has what and risk running out of starting points in a given area or zone). Starting minions recruited in that zone will be of a level appropriate to the area/zone.
As the leader progresses he can establish new locations or upgrade existing ones at a CP cost.
Bases have a minimum and maximum number of minions that can occupy them. The minimum must always be present within the base and are not available for expeditions or missions.
Items: Items and objects can be bought using CPs to outfit a base (defense turret, stun grenade launcher, teleport supressor, base teleport link etc). If destroyed by a raid the item must be bought again.
If enough of your minions are defeated a hero or villain or rival organisation has a chance to discover where your base is located. If they find out , they can stage either a raid (rival organisation) or an assault (like a newspaper mission) or they can actually sell the location to the highest bidder! Cheek!
So, you've got an organisation and some minions to staff it. what now ?
Well this section is still being worked on but basic ideas are :
Mission:
Establish foothold (defeat rival gangs/stop crimes/clear out creatures)
Patrol a portion of the staff are sent off on patrol
Gather intel
Raid/steal/protect: following intel, you send a force off to perform a specific task.
It is important to know that , while on a mission the force will actually walk along the streets. If the mission is in another zone, the team will travel to that zone, traverse it and then return. they can be seen and interacted with by any players in the area and/or rival organisations.
The social side of being in Charge:
being a leader is more than just sending minions off to do missions.There are social aspects involved as well. sometimes it might be necessary to make a pact with another organisation or to join a league (a super group consisting of organisations) or even to make an alliance with a super group and share information.
pacts: non-aggression , the organisations forces will not attack one another
alliance: the organisations forces will aid each other if in the area, (note: this may be awkward if there are enemies that you have an alliance with both factions. personally I think it should be allowed and the leaders minions just wont get involved) .
Mutual defense: nearby forces from defense groups will help in base defense.
War: all other pacts are off. minions will actively hunt members of the rival organisation.
Pacts can be made whether or not both leaders are online (so yes, you can make a pact with your alts or declare war on an offline enemy)
Information sharing:
Like the current trade screen organisations can meet to trade information in fame/notoriety , items, objects, minions etc. trading is informally regulated. (both leaders agree on trade and its done).
Information objects can be anything that you have earned through missions, the location of a base, the code to a safe etc. once traded your organisation loses the ability to act on that information (cannot raid base, cannot do theft mission).
sort of it for now. What I'd like is for people to say what they think of the idea, comment on the mechanics, make suggestions for the powers or the rate of progression of the leaders. I'll put together soem actual numbers and ideas and develope a few examples that describe things a bit better.