Doctor_Xaxan
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Posts
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Joined
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What about this:
Kinetic Melee primary: focused burst, repulsing torrent.
Super Reflexes: Nothing lost for being at range rather than melee.
Soul Mastery: Cone immobilize to keep torrent from flinging people around too much, Gloom for the attack chain and a sweet targetted ranged AOE. -
Quote:Make the bad man go away.Originally Posted by DarkMaster
Derp derp derp.
Also, I suspect L3gend is a buddy from the game asked to come out here to the forums and agree with him.Quote:Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Nobody is buying your "I'm the innocent here" BS. Well, accept L3gend, apparently. -
It'd go really well with Dark Armor. DA doesn't softcap on its own, so unless you were planning on breaking the bank to softcap your typed defenses, you'll get a lot of mileage out of Darkest Night. Slot that son of a gun with Dark Watcher's or Dampened Spirits and go nuts. That's -16% ToHit on everything around you. You'll notice.
Gloom, if you can deal with the somewhat silly visual, is a fantastic effect. It compares favorably to Punch in terms of DPA, so I would suggest seeing if you can work it into your late game attack chain.
Soul Tentacles I'd skip, honestly. The look of it is cool but it's an extremely narrow cone and I've always found it to be of really limited use.
Dark Obliteration is awesome. All negative energy damage, and there's something really satisfying about the sound it makes when it hits a ton of baddies all at once.
EDIT:
I just thought of this: How are you dealing with endurance drain on this character. Dark/SS with Darkest Night running! *shudders* -
Quote:I'll probably end up going with Inv. I like the look of it on paper, in terms of alpha-soaking potential as compared to WP, and it's a set I have less experience with than the others.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I think Invuln, SR & WP would all be solid choices.
However, due to the lack of AoE I would probably pair it with SD or possibly Ela.
SD, even in it's "lesser' state for Brutes (as compared to Scrappers) will still increase your damage by a solid amount as well as add some much needed AoE.
Brute SC will never be what a Scrappers is, but it's still another weapon to add to your arsenal.
I would lean more towards SD over Ela, due to SDs ability to softcap.
At that point, I would probably pick up Mu for E-fences and Ball Lightning.
Shield Defense. Argh, you're right in every respect. The only problem? I'm a shield defense fanatic and have tons of shield characters. My main is a SD/SS tanker. I also have a SD/FM tanker, a SD/DM tanker and a MA/SD scrapper. >_<
Shield is a seductive set. Almost any problem set can be fixed by pairing it with shield, and any good set can be made better by pairing it with shield.
On a less practical note, Energy Melee is a gorgeous set and I do think it looks best when it's just two glowing fists flying around on their own. -
Wouldn't Assault be better in most cases? That's what smart people here on the forums told me when I asked about melt armor.
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Quote:I see what you're saying, but why would augmenting the set with some AOE kill the set's single target damage capability. That's what I think I'm missing here; How does using immobilize and AOE damage from Mu hurt the single target DPS of EM?Originally Posted by CarlaHaust
What Darkmaster was saying is that you Xanxan asked for people's opinions on your Mu mastery concept, what dark was saying is that if you are trying to add AoE damage to your build you're stretching it thin.
Let me put EM and Invuln/SR into context for you so you may see why Mu Mastery is a bad idea if you're adding in damage.
EM is one of thetop single target Brute sets, the others being obviously Super Strength, and Stone Melee. While SS has footstomp and SM has tremor they work because of the secondaries. Tremor is a knock up and so is foot stomp though SS has rage, without these effects an AoE isnt that useful. Ball lightning is somethign you'd pair with Electric Melee or Electric armor if you were going for the End drain defensive strategy.
SR/Invuln both lack recovery and both have a fair amount of toggles, tossing in end heavy AoEs is going to kill your end bar.
If you want to make the most out of Whirling hands toss in a disorient set and use it with Mu mastery's Fences, that's a great idea but I feel if you're throwing ball lightning you're taking away from EM's focus and hindering yourself too much. Three powers that are strictly business... Knockout Blow, Energy Transfer and Seismic Smash... these sets are designed to drop mobs in one hit.
Also, I've played Invulnerability a few times. I actually find it to be really forgiving on endurance. My main is a Shield/SS tanker who double rages and uses Fireball from Pyre Mastery as part of his AOE battery, and set bonuses are enough to keep him moving along.
I'm not trying to be disagreeable here, I just don't get the objection to adding AOE to the mix. -
Quote:I've heard about this quite a bit. What exactly did they do to EM when they changed it? I remember hearing that they gave Energy Transfer a considerably longer animation.Originally Posted by Spiritchaser
Just to redirect the conversation a bit away from EM's AoE (pretty looking but the tanker/brute's version is such a small radius) and towards the stun-regen question again...
My only EM/WP experience was back in beta when WP first came out... but I did a fair bit of testing, and I really think you're worrying about this one way way too much. Sure, this was before the EM nerf, but the "problem" you're concerned about was still there.
back then I played an EM/WP in some back to back tests with an EM/fire, an EM/EA and an EM/invul. EM was my favourite primary at the time. Before the nerf.
If I had to order non-IO builds (well, mostly non-IO, EVERY wp needs a steadfast right?) of these I'd probably go WP first, then Invul.
Except of course I wouldn't
Not untill EM gets another look from the powers that be. I grudgingly agree that EM as it was needed to change, but what was done ruined too much of what I loved about the set.
Also, thanks for the input from everyone -
Quote:The cages were a result of the discussion about mobs wandering away from mitigation auras when they get stunned, and how to minimize that problem. It's right up there in this very same thread.Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I'm not being "so srs", but when I read things like this:
....I'm inclined to believe that maybe you don't realize how lacking EM really is in the aoe department. That you'd most likely be better off just pounding them 1 for 1 with your heavy hitters than spamming that weak attack.
If you realize that EM is weak in aoe, bravo, and have fun with that. I'm not being serious, I was giving you a heads-up/warning in case you "didn't" realize that.
Also, the title of your thread is "Help me make an EM/* Brute", in which case I'm helping you by informing you on EM's total lack of aoe damage and that if using cages+BL+WH for aoe for your mass killing is your future plans, you'd be much better off choosing a different primary. If you don't want constructive criticism, don't post or ask for any...
I see absolutely no reason why not to make the most of what little AOE output EM does have. I've also played the set up to mid levels three times in the past, which I also said in the OP.
Let's make a deal. I'll take constructive criticism if you take the time to read a thread before you reply to it. -
Quote:At no point anywhere did I say I was looking for big time AOE damage. I mentioned that a particular power had a big radius, because it does.Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I'm not trying to be a party pooper...but if you're sitting here talking about wanting to deal "aoe damage" with your EM Brute, I'm going to sit here and tell you that you'll be sorely dissappointed. It's great that you like EM, however I think that if you're going to like EM, then you should like it for what it is, and unfortunately that's not as an AoE geared primary. EM is about single target damage (or at least at one time it definitely was). If you want to really enjoy your EM, focus on that. Sure, pick up a bit-o-whirling hands for "fun" if you want, that's your choice, but expect any sort of great aoe damage return.
I still sorta like EM, even after the nerfs, but seeing you talk AoE inclines me to let you know that it's not going to serve you in that department at all, and that you're much better off focusing on heavy hitting single target attacks. You'll be relatively pleased then, at least with the "big-boom-smashy" feeling the new animations on ET have.
But it's your toon, build him how you want, just remember my warning when you find that your damage and aoe is lagging far behind the rest of the team come late game. GL.
I'm honestly having a "y so srs" moment here. -
Quote:Don't be such a party pooper. I did say in the OP that I had decided to make an EM toon.Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I think if you want aoe's....then you should really look into a different primary....or at least pair it with a secondary that has some aoes in it already....
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So, right now I'm looking at EM/Inv/Mu, something along the lines of the build below.
I threw it together in about five minutes, so there are probably some faux pas, but I'm mostly interested in soundness of premise.
The idea would be to open with ball lightning (BIG radius on that thing O_o), get everyone in close, lock them down with fences, then start cycling Whirling Hands.
Whatcha guys think?
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Najaek i19: Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 2: Bone Smasher -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam(37)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Whirling Hands -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal(13), Dct'dW-Rchg(36)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Total Focus -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Resist Elements -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(25)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36)
Level 38: Resist Energies -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(39)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(42), Dmg-I(50), Dmg-I(50)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(5)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run -
Quote:You know, that's actually a great idea for lessening the impact of Whirling Hands.Originally Posted by Poisonfist1
You could get a Patron group immob or not take Whirling Hands at all if one was truly worried they would stumble away too quickly.
Thanks for that suggestion. WP is back on the table.
It's also possible that EM/WP wouldn't be such a bad combo. That's something I think I've had ground into my head by folks on the tanker forum. -
Quote:I was thinking about ditching Barrage. It's ever so sluggish.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Because they'd stun-walk out of the regen field?
I'd go with Inv over SR mostly due to ET's self-damage and SR having no kind of HP buff.
Both will be slow to start but once you get invincibility, you'll find your em/inv festive.
I do advise taking and keeping EP, Barrage and BS for fury building/maintenance.
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Hey folks.
I'm mostly a tanker, but I've decided to make an energy melee character and, having tried and deleted two such tankers, have determined that only a brute can make it bearable.
So I'm sort of stumped on secondaries.
EA is out because it has no taunt aura and sucks in every way that it's possible for a powerset to suck.
WP is pretty much out because the AOE stun from Whirling Hands would kill my regen.
In fact, I'm basically down to /SR or /INV.
What do you folks think. Are there powersets that pair particularly well with EM? -
I can't really speak for the scrapper/brute version of this powerset combo, but I have a level 30 SD/FM tanker and the whole "scorched earth" effect is awesome. Combustion is a great power.
Also being nigh-indestructible is great. I have a feeling (in my bones) that scrapper/brute would do more AOE damage even without combustion, but I can't imagine the tanker is far behind. -
Here's a build that gets you what you need for (relatively) cheap, with 9 slots left to play with.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(17), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(45)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(11), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(13), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), T'Death-Dam%(45)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(3), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), RedFtn-Def(9), RedFtn-EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Smashing Blow -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(15)
Level 16: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(19), Heal-I(19), Heal-I(37)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Power Siphon -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(34)
Level 28: Burst -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam(33), RctvArm-EndRdx(40)
Level 35: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def(36), RedFtn-EndRdx(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Concentrated Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 47: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run -
Quote:Hey, didn't mean to take a dig at you. I just saw the combination of common mistakes and really (really) expensive IO sets and thought, HMMM, that's suspicious.Originally Posted by RaikenX
@ Doc X: Nope...am indeed lookin for advice. I've never really messed with the fight pool as i usually tend to lean towards squishies, with a few melee's here and there for variety's sake.
Kinda funny you say that deflection was light on the defense as i had the whole kismet set slotted in it...but hey...as Ace Ventura said, "Aaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllrighty then!" LOL
Nah...not trollin' at all.
Edit: Well...looked at what you were talkin about there, doc...swapped out a couple of those kismet IO's for standard 50 def IO and my defense shot up a few points. So...between that and the little sample build Syn did up...beginning to rethink my building already. (Actually did a few test tweaks and managed to get melee def up to 60%+ and AoE and Ranged closer to softcap 45%...yeah...much to learn, i have.
@ Syn: Hmm...yeah...I think i could work around that sample a bit and do some minor tweaking with it (like leave out SJ...NR works quite well for me) which i could sub for an added attack or somethin (hey...what can i say...i like being on the offensive). Thx!
Even though i've mostly solo'd him thus far...he has done pretty well as he is in a team setting...even against oranges, reds, and purples. But, still room for improvement, and i'm still in a learning process.
Appreciate the replies, folkz.
When slotting powers in Mids, make sure that in addition to the set bonuses, you're looking at the actual enhancement values of the power. I.e. Accuracy, damage, end reduction and recharge.
As some others pointed out, low level sets won't give great values at level 50, even if they have sweet set bonuses. -
Quote:Pretty much every tanker on here is gonna say to go for weave with a shield tanker. I mean, you /are/ looking for advice right?Originally Posted by RaikenX
well...plan on sticking with NR for my travel even though i've got my 60 month vet badge.
may try to squeeze in tough/weave after +I19.
Hasten (though +rech is sweet...i'm not a ***** for it) is a total optional for me and might sub it for CJ for the few extra points of +def and the combat mobility.
Anyway, your build has some fundamental problems. Deflection is underslotted for defense. burst probably needs some endurance reduction.
Actually...
Are you trolling? <_< -
Quote:It all makes so much SENSE now. O_OOriginally Posted by Mystic_Cross
Conserve Power will prereq laser eyes and physical perfection, which in turn opens up ET from 47. since the only 2 powers he didnt list are CP and PP, I'd gather he has them as the prereqs. to get LE and ET
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Quote:Ditto what Rangle said.Originally Posted by RiggsMcClane
With fitness becoming inherent I'm having a hard time deciding on a lvl 49 power. I'd like to stay clear of anything costly to my end. Here's are my choices:
Resist Energies
Hand Clap
Boxing
Focused Accuracy
Laser Beam Eyes
Energy Torrent
Resist Energies would be the obvious choice but from what I understand the benefit isn't all that great. What would you guys suggest?
However, I can give you some general tips. Keep in mind you'll only be able to 4-slot (at the very most) any power you take at level 49.
Resist Energies would probably round out some holes in your mitigation. It can be left one-slotted and it's good to go.
Hand clap pretty much sucks except in specific builds.
Boxing could be 4-slotted with Kinetic Combat to get more smashing/lethal defense from the set bonus.
Focused Accuracy is an endurance hog.
I'm confused about how you can take laser beam eyes and energy torrent, since you only have one power choice left and they both have prerequisites. -
I'd also like a power customization option not to disappear when I have Energy Cloak running. Dark Armor got that change; why not energy aura?
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Try going back a couple pages. There have been a few discussions recently about WP/SS builds for tankers.
Good luck! -
Quote:Actually, a role-playing game is not the same as role-playing. MMORPGs are video games. Role-playing (in an immersive, non-mechanical sense) is not integral in any way to the game itself. Role-players make up a relatively small percentage of any online game's overall community; that's just a fact. CoH/Virtue is the exception, not the rule.Originally Posted by Seyshara
I was under the impression that roleplaying was an integral part of a MMORPG. It's what the 'RP' stands for, after all...
Also, the term RPG exists (and has existed) in single-player games as well, and those games work just fine.
Anyway.
I'm a role-player. But this kind of self-absorbed whining is absurd, and you're a poor representation of role-players when you indulge in it.
This change, as it's currently understood, causes you to lose NOTHING. At the very worst, you'll end up taking some powers that you'll never use. Deal with it. Many, many more people will find their CoH experience more enjoyable because of inherant fitness, and if you think that's less important than your Srs Bzns Character Concept, go find a chat room or a message board with no video game attached.
The rest of us are trying to enjoy ourselves. -
Quote:Keep in mind that you'll the the team's tank. While I think it's cool that you want to round out the team's capabilities, I don't think you'll have many situations where you're alive and everyone else is dead.Originally Posted by LiQiuD
I took Aid Self for the Res, since no one else in our group will have a res.
Plus you have Wakies an the ability to create Wakies from other inspirations.
Add to that the fact that Aid Self just isn't a very good power for your powerset combo, and I'd really recommend picking something else. Obviously it's your call, though. We're just trying to arm you.
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Quote:Yes, although I didn't at first and then had an "OMFG!" moment when I realized the problem.Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
By the way, I notice that this is an i19 build, and so you don't have stamina in your mids. Since mid's doesn't have the inherent stamina yet, the 'net recovery' numbers it's showing will be less than you'll actually have in game. Did you take the recovery you'll be getting from stamina into account when you calculated your endurance usage?
From looking at the numbers, I did figure that it wouldn't be possible to get into positive "end flow" with this character and this build. The attack chain alone is an absolute beast of a thing.
Rather, I was just looking for ballpark comparisons from other folks.
Thanks for the help so far, you guys.