Quote:
Because they'd stun-walk out of the regen field?| WP is pretty much out because the AOE stun from Whirling Hands would kill my regen |
I'd go with Inv over SR mostly due to ET's self-damage and SR having no kind of HP buff.
Both will be slow to start but once you get invincibility, you'll find your em/inv festive.
I do advise taking and keeping EP, Barrage and BS for fury building/maintenance.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
I was thinking about ditching Barrage. It's ever so sluggish. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Because they'd stun-walk out of the regen field?
I'd go with Inv over SR mostly due to ET's self-damage and SR having no kind of HP buff. Both will be slow to start but once you get invincibility, you'll find your em/inv festive. I do advise taking and keeping EP, Barrage and BS for fury building/maintenance. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Hey folks.
I'm mostly a tanker, but I've decided to make an energy melee character and, having tried and deleted two such tankers, have determined that only a brute can make it bearable. So I'm sort of stumped on secondaries. EA is out because it has no taunt aura and sucks in every way that it's possible for a powerset to suck. WP is pretty much out because the AOE stun from Whirling Hands would kill my regen. In fact, I'm basically down to /SR or /INV. What do you folks think. Are there powersets that pair particularly well with EM? |
Well Darn.
I have a Em/Willpower I am having a lot of fun with...and you say it is going to go all to pot when I get Whirling Hands?
That is very, very, very, disheartening.
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
I honestly don't know if it would be as much of an issue as the OP thinks. To be honest, I kind of doubt it and that's what prompted my question.
I don't think that the stun duration would be enough to matter.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I honestly don't know if it would be as much of an issue as the OP thinks. To be honest, I kind of doubt it and that's what prompted my question.
I don't think that the stun duration would be enough to matter. |
In my personal experience it doesn't. I have an EM/WP tank and I haven't noticed Whirling Hands degrading my regen at all. I think the stun effect would slow building up Fury.
You could get a Patron group immob or not take Whirling Hands at all if one was truly worried they would stumble away too quickly.
Quote:
You know, that's actually a great idea for lessening the impact of Whirling Hands.|
Originally Posted by Poisonfist1
You could get a Patron group immob or not take Whirling Hands at all if one was truly worried they would stumble away too quickly.
|
Thanks for that suggestion.
WP is back on the table.It's also possible that EM/WP wouldn't be such a bad combo. That's something I think I've had ground into my head by folks on the tanker forum.
You're welcome. I'm just glad I could help. 
So, right now I'm looking at EM/Inv/Mu, something along the lines of the build below.
I threw it together in about five minutes, so there are probably some faux pas, but I'm mostly interested in soundness of premise.
The idea would be to open with ball lightning (BIG radius on that thing O_o), get everyone in close, lock them down with fences, then start cycling Whirling Hands.
Whatcha guys think?
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Najaek i19: Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 2: Bone Smasher -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam(37)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Whirling Hands -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal(13), Dct'dW-Rchg(36)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Total Focus -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Resist Elements -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(25)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36)
Level 38: Resist Energies -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(39)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(42), Dmg-I(50), Dmg-I(50)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(5)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
Quote:
I think if you want aoe's....then you should really look into a different primary....or at least pair it with a secondary that has some aoes in it already....
|
So, right now I'm looking at EM/Inv/Mu, something along the lines of the build below. I threw it together in about five minutes, so there are probably some faux pas, but I'm mostly interested in soundness of premise. The idea would be to open with ball lightning (BIG radius on that thing O_o), get everyone in close, lock them down with fences, then start cycling Whirling Hands. Whatcha guys think? |
Quote:
Don't be such a party pooper. I did say in the OP that I had decided to make an EM toon. |
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I think if you want aoe's....then you should really look into a different primary....or at least pair it with a secondary that has some aoes in it already....
|
Quote:
I'm not trying to be a party pooper...but if you're sitting here talking about wanting to deal "aoe damage" with your EM Brute, I'm going to sit here and tell you that you'll be sorely dissappointed. It's great that you like EM, however I think that if you're going to like EM, then you should like it for what it is, and unfortunately that's not as an AoE geared primary. EM is about single target damage (or at least at one time it definitely was). If you want to really enjoy your EM, focus on that. Sure, pick up a bit-o-whirling hands for "fun" if you want, that's your choice, but expect any sort of great aoe damage return.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Don't be such a party pooper. I did say in the OP that I had decided to make an EM toon.
|
I still sorta like EM, even after the nerfs, but seeing you talk AoE inclines me to let you know that it's not going to serve you in that department at all, and that you're much better off focusing on heavy hitting single target attacks. You'll be relatively pleased then, at least with the "big-boom-smashy" feeling the new animations on ET have.
But it's your toon, build him how you want, just remember my warning when you find that your damage and aoe is lagging far behind the rest of the team come late game. GL.
Quote:
At no point anywhere did I say I was looking for big time AOE damage. I mentioned that a particular power had a big radius, because it does.|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I'm not trying to be a party pooper...but if you're sitting here talking about wanting to deal "aoe damage" with your EM Brute, I'm going to sit here and tell you that you'll be sorely dissappointed. It's great that you like EM, however I think that if you're going to like EM, then you should like it for what it is, and unfortunately that's not as an AoE geared primary. EM is about single target damage (or at least at one time it definitely was). If you want to really enjoy your EM, focus on that. Sure, pick up a bit-o-whirling hands for "fun" if you want, that's your choice, but expect any sort of great aoe damage return.
I still sorta like EM, even after the nerfs, but seeing you talk AoE inclines me to let you know that it's not going to serve you in that department at all, and that you're much better off focusing on heavy hitting single target attacks. You'll be relatively pleased then, at least with the "big-boom-smashy" feeling the new animations on ET have. But it's your toon, build him how you want, just remember my warning when you find that your damage and aoe is lagging far behind the rest of the team come late game. GL. |
I'm honestly having a "y so srs" moment here.
Quote:
I'm not being "so srs", but when I read things like this:|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
At no point anywhere did I say I was looking for big time AOE damage. I mentioned that a particular power had a big radius, because it does.
I'm honestly having a "y so srs" moment here. |
Quote:
|
The idea would be to open with ball lightning (BIG radius on that thing O_o), get everyone in close, lock them down with fences, then start cycling Whirling Hands. |
If you realize that EM is weak in aoe, bravo, and have fun with that. I'm not being serious, I was giving you a heads-up/warning in case you "didn't" realize that.
Also, the title of your thread is "Help me make an EM/* Brute", in which case I'm helping you by informing you on EM's total lack of aoe damage and that if using cages+BL+WH for aoe for your mass killing is your future plans, you'd be much better off choosing a different primary. If you don't want constructive criticism, don't post or ask for any...
Quote:
The cages were a result of the discussion about mobs wandering away from mitigation auras when they get stunned, and how to minimize that problem. It's right up there in this very same thread.|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I'm not being "so srs", but when I read things like this:
....I'm inclined to believe that maybe you don't realize how lacking EM really is in the aoe department. That you'd most likely be better off just pounding them 1 for 1 with your heavy hitters than spamming that weak attack. If you realize that EM is weak in aoe, bravo, and have fun with that. I'm not being serious, I was giving you a heads-up/warning in case you "didn't" realize that. Also, the title of your thread is "Help me make an EM/* Brute", in which case I'm helping you by informing you on EM's total lack of aoe damage and that if using cages+BL+WH for aoe for your mass killing is your future plans, you'd be much better off choosing a different primary. If you don't want constructive criticism, don't post or ask for any... |
I see absolutely no reason why not to make the most of what little AOE output EM does have. I've also played the set up to mid levels three times in the past, which I also said in the OP.
Let's make a deal. I'll take constructive criticism if you take the time to read a thread before you reply to it.
Quote:
And once again, if you don't want people to point out issues or give suggestions, then don't post. I suggested that you roll a set with more aoe when hearing you talk of attempting aoe damage with EM. That set change could have been a change in either primary or secondary (which could allow you to keep EM). I see no problem with what I suggested, especially in a post that is asking for suggestions in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
The cages were a result of the discussion about mobs wandering away from mitigation auras when they get stunned, and how to minimize that problem. It's right up there in this very same thread.
I see absolutely no reason why not to make the most of what little AOE output EM does have. I've also played the set up to mid levels three times in the past, which I also said in the OP. Let's make a deal. I'll take constructive criticism if you take the time to read a thread before you reply to it. |
So lets make a better deal, don't make a post asking for help/suggestions if you don't want them -and- whatever suggestions/help/info/feedback you do get, take with a grain of fricken salt, absorbe them, and learn from them. No need to jump on someone because of a (valid) suggestion. Had you replied to my first response with something more explanative or reasonable, such as: "ah no Dark, I realize the aoe in EM isn't all that, I was just responding with a possible solution to the 'stun-stagger' that everyone is afraid of which is caused by WH. I really like EM and am hoping to simply maximize what little aoe it does have cuz I likes pink-pom-poms" then your outcome of responses back would have been vastly different.
Don't forget, you're the one asking for the feedback afterall, not us.
Quote:
Just to redirect the conversation a bit away from EM's AoE (pretty looking but the tanker/brute's version is such a small radius) and towards the stun-regen question again...|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Hey folks.
I'm mostly a tanker, but I've decided to make an energy melee character and, having tried and deleted two such tankers, have determined that only a brute can make it bearable. So I'm sort of stumped on secondaries. EA is out because it has no taunt aura and sucks in every way that it's possible for a powerset to suck. WP is pretty much out because the AOE stun from Whirling Hands would kill my regen. In fact, I'm basically down to /SR or /INV. What do you folks think. Are there powersets that pair particularly well with EM? |
My only EM/WP experience was back in beta when WP first came out... but I did a fair bit of testing, and I really think you're worrying about this one way way too much. Sure, this was before the EM nerf, but the "problem" you're concerned about was still there.
back then I played an EM/WP in some back to back tests with an EM/fire, an EM/EA and an EM/invul. EM was my favourite primary at the time. Before the nerf.
If I had to order non-IO builds (well, mostly non-IO, EVERY wp needs a steadfast right?) of these I'd probably go WP first, then Invul.
Except of course I wouldn't
Not untill EM gets another look from the powers that be. I grudgingly agree that EM as it was needed to change, but what was done ruined too much of what I loved about the set.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[QUOTE=DarkMaster;3276397]ave cuz I likes pink-pom-poms"[/b][/i] then your outcome of responses back would have been vastly different./QUOTE]
Whew. I come back to this thread fully rested and sipping a cup of coffee and I find this thread has grown.
Sorry, if I acted silly about my response to Whirling Hands killing Regen. If they do the drunk walk out of my Regen field, well, they are too looped to attack me, so it is all good.
One good thing to come out of my pout born of emotional fatigue from work, after leaving the forums, I logged into the game and created a Stone/Elec Brute. I made her in Praetoria, and she is just awesome. So fun to play, I don't even look at my fury bar.
So if you all see a Stone/Elec Brute named Eppi Center running around on Victory, be assured that the nut behind the keyboard is cackling with glee
Once again, sorry about the tone of my post I made yesterday...but...out of the darkness, came brightness, so, maybe it had to be
Oh, and you can have pink pom poms on any toon now...there is one of the new Going Rogue Auras, Omega I think it is called, the one with the sunburst. Make it on fists only and color it pink. They look like Pom poms to me.
Hugs to everyone here
Lisa-And, hey, it is the start of the Halloween event, and I have the day off, Win
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
Quote:
Take /SR, hit 50, softcap, enjoy being near unstoppable.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Hey folks.
I'm mostly a tanker, but I've decided to make an energy melee character and, having tried and deleted two such tankers, have determined that only a brute can make it bearable. So I'm sort of stumped on secondaries. EA is out because it has no taunt aura and sucks in every way that it's possible for a powerset to suck. WP is pretty much out because the AOE stun from Whirling Hands would kill my regen. In fact, I'm basically down to /SR or /INV. What do you folks think. Are there powersets that pair particularly well with EM? |
WPs regen isn't affected from stunning the targets, you just need to be near them. The stun from WH isn't 100% effective or a huge amount of damage even at full fury.
Personally I have a EM/SR at 50 and softcapped, I enjoy the toon quite a bit. Only thing in the game that annoys me is the autohit nictus on the ITF.
EM/SR is perfect synergy IMO, long animations work well with defense. The bonus 20% recharge helps with EMs longer recharge times. Taking Aid Self goes a long way for those times you do get hit.
Quote:
I've heard about this quite a bit. What exactly did they do to EM when they changed it? I remember hearing that they gave Energy Transfer a considerably longer animation.|
Originally Posted by Spiritchaser
Just to redirect the conversation a bit away from EM's AoE (pretty looking but the tanker/brute's version is such a small radius) and towards the stun-regen question again...
My only EM/WP experience was back in beta when WP first came out... but I did a fair bit of testing, and I really think you're worrying about this one way way too much. Sure, this was before the EM nerf, but the "problem" you're concerned about was still there. back then I played an EM/WP in some back to back tests with an EM/fire, an EM/EA and an EM/invul. EM was my favourite primary at the time. Before the nerf. If I had to order non-IO builds (well, mostly non-IO, EVERY wp needs a steadfast right?) of these I'd probably go WP first, then Invul. Except of course I wouldn't Not untill EM gets another look from the powers that be. I grudgingly agree that EM as it was needed to change, but what was done ruined too much of what I loved about the set. |
Also, thanks for the input from everyone
Quote:
They changed the animations and increased the activation of some of the attacks. This was done to balance out the set, before it was high damage and DPS. This mainly lowered the DPS output of the set. Granted I made my EM toon after the change so I don't know first hand how it changed the "feel" of the set. To me, it doesn't feel underpowered or overpowered.
|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
I've heard about this quite a bit. What exactly did they do to EM when they changed it? I remember hearing that they gave Energy Transfer a considerably longer animation.
Also, thanks for the input from everyone |
Quote:
What Darkmaster was saying is that you Xanxan asked for people's opinions on your Mu mastery concept, what dark was saying is that if you are trying to add AoE damage to your build you're stretching it thin.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
At no point anywhere did I say I was looking for big time AOE damage. I mentioned that a particular power had a big radius, because it does.
I'm honestly having a "y so srs" moment here. |
Let me put EM and Invuln/SR into context for you so you may see why Mu Mastery is a bad idea if you're adding in damage.
EM is one of thetop single target Brute sets, the others being obviously Super Strength, and Stone Melee. While SS has footstomp and SM has tremor they work because of the secondaries. Tremor is a knock up and so is foot stomp though SS has rage, without these effects an AoE isnt that useful. Ball lightning is somethign you'd pair with Electric Melee or Electric armor if you were going for the End drain defensive strategy.
SR/Invuln both lack recovery and both have a fair amount of toggles, tossing in end heavy AoEs is going to kill your end bar.
If you want to make the most out of Whirling hands toss in a disorient set and use it with Mu mastery's Fences, that's a great idea but I feel if you're throwing ball lightning you're taking away from EM's focus and hindering yourself too much. Three powers that are strictly business... Knockout Blow, Energy Transfer and Seismic Smash... these sets are designed to drop mobs in one hit.
Quote:
I see what you're saying, but why would augmenting the set with some AOE kill the set's single target damage capability. That's what I think I'm missing here; How does using immobilize and AOE damage from Mu hurt the single target DPS of EM?|
Originally Posted by CarlaHaust
What Darkmaster was saying is that you Xanxan asked for people's opinions on your Mu mastery concept, what dark was saying is that if you are trying to add AoE damage to your build you're stretching it thin.
Let me put EM and Invuln/SR into context for you so you may see why Mu Mastery is a bad idea if you're adding in damage. EM is one of thetop single target Brute sets, the others being obviously Super Strength, and Stone Melee. While SS has footstomp and SM has tremor they work because of the secondaries. Tremor is a knock up and so is foot stomp though SS has rage, without these effects an AoE isnt that useful. Ball lightning is somethign you'd pair with Electric Melee or Electric armor if you were going for the End drain defensive strategy. SR/Invuln both lack recovery and both have a fair amount of toggles, tossing in end heavy AoEs is going to kill your end bar. If you want to make the most out of Whirling hands toss in a disorient set and use it with Mu mastery's Fences, that's a great idea but I feel if you're throwing ball lightning you're taking away from EM's focus and hindering yourself too much. Three powers that are strictly business... Knockout Blow, Energy Transfer and Seismic Smash... these sets are designed to drop mobs in one hit. |
Also, I've played Invulnerability a few times. I actually find it to be really forgiving on endurance. My main is a Shield/SS tanker who double rages and uses Fireball from Pyre Mastery as part of his AOE battery, and set bonuses are enough to keep him moving along.
I'm not trying to be disagreeable here, I just don't get the objection to adding AOE to the mix.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CarlaHaust
What Darkmaster was saying is that you Xanxan asked for people's opinions on your Mu mastery concept, what dark was saying is that if you are trying to add AoE damage to your build you're stretching it thin.
Let me put EM and Invuln/SR into context for you so you may see why Mu Mastery is a bad idea if you're adding in damage. EM is one of thetop single target Brute sets, the others being obviously Super Strength, and Stone Melee. While SS has footstomp and SM has tremor they work because of the secondaries. Tremor is a knock up and so is foot stomp though SS has rage, without these effects an AoE isnt that useful. Ball lightning is somethign you'd pair with Electric Melee or Electric armor if you were going for the End drain defensive strategy. SR/Invuln both lack recovery and both have a fair amount of toggles, tossing in end heavy AoEs is going to kill your end bar. If you want to make the most out of Whirling hands toss in a disorient set and use it with Mu mastery's Fences, that's a great idea but I feel if you're throwing ball lightning you're taking away from EM's focus and hindering yourself too much. Three powers that are strictly business... Knockout Blow, Energy Transfer and Seismic Smash... these sets are designed to drop mobs in one hit. |
If you got space, whats wrong with more damage? On a set like EM, any amount of AoE added is a boon. IOs go a long way for covering the End cost, my EM/SR has no end issues on top of being softcapped. 3 +End procs go a long way
I like /Inv with EM because you can hop into a big pile of baddies and use the +tohit/+DEF spike and massive single-target damage to burn down the psi/toxic/boss guy, thus plugging INV's hole fast and leaving you large and in charge for the rest of the spawn. /INV is pretty great when you're not having to worry about the psi/toxic holes.
Virtue: Steel Cherub - em/inv brute | bad romance - fire/kin corr | Sudden Chill - ice/kin corr
Freedom: Sad Sam - ss/da brute | Tommy Atomic - em/el brute
Hey folks.
I'm mostly a tanker, but I've decided to make an energy melee character and, having tried and deleted two such tankers, have determined that only a brute can make it bearable.
So I'm sort of stumped on secondaries.
EA is out because it has no taunt aura and sucks in every way that it's possible for a powerset to suck.
WP is pretty much out because the AOE stun from Whirling Hands would kill my regen.
In fact, I'm basically down to /SR or /INV.
What do you folks think. Are there powersets that pair particularly well with EM?