How do you do the thing with the stuff? (math nerds needed)


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

I've seen some people have a way to determine how much endurance over time would be used by an attack chain, calculate the time from 100% to 0% endurance given a certain attack chain, etc.

How do I do that? I have a build I'm working on for my main character for issue 19 and I'm hugely concerned about endurance. How do I ho about figuring if this build is sustainable?

Please halp!

EDIT:

I guess I could post the build.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Day Shatter: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), ImpArm-ResDam(37), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(46)
Level 1: Jab -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Haymaker -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), FrcFbk-Rechg%(50)
Level 6: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(25), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 16: True Grit -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(17), Heal-I(17), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResDam(34)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(33)
Level 28: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), RedFtn-Def(31), RedFtn-EndRdx(31), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 30: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 35: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(42), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A), Empty(15), Empty(15), Empty(21), Empty(21)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------


 

Posted

Simple answer:

Figure out an attack chain. Calculate how long that attack chain will last (activation time X + activation time Y + activation time Z, etc.). Take the endurance costs from Mid's, and divide the endurance cost of all the powers put together by the activation times of the attack chain.


Math-nerd answer:

What you're looking for is a non-stop attack chain, I am guessing. To determine the endurance cost for that, you first need to figure out what that attack chain will be.

Step 1: Determine the activation time of each power.

Step 2: Determine the Arcanatime of each power (this is actually the number you need, not the activation time). Determining this can be done by following Arcanaville's guide on the matter.

Step 3: Plug together an attack chain, given those Arcanatimes, that will let you attack constantly with no gaps.

Step 4: Take the endurance cost of each attack in the chain, and divide by the Arcanatimes of all of the attacks in the chain. This will give you an Endurance/second cost for the attack chain.

Now, to figure out what that actually means in the game (time until depleted of endurance), you'll need a few more things. Luckily, Mid's will provide these. If you go to the Totals area, you'll note that it gives you your endurance/second of recovery. This is your positive endurance flow.

Step 4 will give you your negative endurance flow from attacks. Mids will also show you your negative endurance flow from toggles that you have on. If your positive is greater than your total negative drain, you can attack forever. If it is lower, then there is some simple math that you can do to figure out how long your endurance.

If you have 100 max endurance, and your drain is 1 per second, you can attack for 100 seconds straight before running out. If your total drain is 2 per second, you can attack for 50 seconds before being drained. If your drain is only 0.5 end/second, then you can attack for 200 seconds before running dry.

As such, the formula for determining how long you can attack, given a given endurance drain, is:

X = Total Endurance/endurance drain

Simple as that!


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

If I do the numbers based on Average Joe time instead of Arcanatime, will I still have a roughly accurate result?

EDIT:

Also, how do I go about figuring out the highest DPS attack chain for SS?


 

Posted

I just spent the whole night effing around with a spreadsheet (which I taught myself how to do specifically for this purpose, go me!).

Not account for Arcanatime, my tanker should be able to sustain his Single Target attach chain for 63.5 seconds.

Now my next question is, what's considered "pretty okay" as far as that number goes? Is complete sustainability (recovery greater than total drain) always the goal?


 

Posted

If you go with Average Joe time instead of Arcanatime, you'll be fine. Arcanatime just gets you a little bit more accurate of a measure of how long the activations will take. Still, whether you'd even notice the difference in-game is debatable.

You are not always shooting for a net gain of endurance. For the most part, that is usually unattainable anyways. Also, if your average fight is 30 seconds or so, then really all you need to be able to do is have enough endurance to last that 30 seconds, regain between fights, and then last the next 30 seconds.

As for what is a 'good' number to shoot for? I have no idea, since I usually don't keep track of that number. I would say to shoot for whatever you find that you need in-game, unless you're trying to solo AVs, where it might be more important.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Keep in mind that the only time attack chain endurance sustainability calculations are actually relevant is when you're continuously using just that attack chain for a long time - i.e. AV/EB fights. The rest of the time you're highly unlikely to be using only those ST attacks over and over again, and a more realistic calculation would be 'using AoEs as fast as possible and tossing in ST attacks randomly between AoEs'. Since AoEs are quite expensive, of course, you likely won't be able to keep it up as long as your ST chain, but on the other hand it's not going to *take* very long to kill a single spawn of normal foes, as which point you have time to recover before the next spawn.

As far as your ST chain goes, it depends on whether you think you can kill a typical EB in 63 seconds. If you can, then 63s is fine. If you can't, you might want to look at ways to improve your end use.

By the way, I notice that this is an i19 build, and so you don't have stamina in your mids. Since mid's doesn't have the inherent stamina yet, the 'net recovery' numbers it's showing will be less than you'll actually have in game. Did you take the recovery you'll be getting from stamina into account when you calculated your endurance usage?


@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.

This is what it means to be a tank!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino View Post
By the way, I notice that this is an i19 build, and so you don't have stamina in your mids. Since mid's doesn't have the inherent stamina yet, the 'net recovery' numbers it's showing will be less than you'll actually have in game. Did you take the recovery you'll be getting from stamina into account when you calculated your endurance usage?
Yes, although I didn't at first and then had an "OMFG!" moment when I realized the problem.

From looking at the numbers, I did figure that it wouldn't be possible to get into positive "end flow" with this character and this build. The attack chain alone is an absolute beast of a thing.

Rather, I was just looking for ballpark comparisons from other folks.

Thanks for the help so far, you guys.