Cybercel

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Thanks for the input in this thread all now at least i know Empaths in Union PvP zones are not something abolished with an unwritten rule about no empaths entering pvp zones

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Well, there might well be, just depends who you listen to.

There seem to be a lot of people with unwritten "rules" in their heads about a lot of things in PvP. RV is rife with it, particularly - you'll come across people who believe insps, buffing, using travel powers, using self-heals, using holds, and not fighting one-vs-one are all cheating. Syn even got accused of being unfair because he was using his Mastermind's henchmen once. (All of the things I've listed are things that have been said to myself or people in my SG.)

If you listen to all of these people, you will reach a point where the only way to fight is to be on a melee toon, stand next to someone, and then hit each other until one of you falls over. Syn and I even took a couple of them into the arena recently and really did just stand next to them even though we were on two Corrs and they were a Scrapper and an Elec/Elec Blaster, and we STILL got accused of cheating because we killed the Blaster more than we killed the Scrapper. You cannot win, just laugh at it and then ignore them.

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As it stands I see no reason to berate anyone who plays the far weaker side from venting in frustration.

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Aside from the fact that the OP said it was a Blaster who was complaining the most, not a villain, it's no excuse to harass other players. Complain if you want to, take it to the Suggestions board if you want to, discuss the problem all you want, but it's no excuse to take out your frustrations on players who are doing nothing other than playing the game. Any imbalances that exist are the devs' fault, not the person playing the Empath or their teammates.

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Sorry to hear that, normally union folk a lot better than that. You have to let me know in game which blaster it was.

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It's not normally better than that at all. As someone who plays an Empath in PvP zones, on Union - though I suspect it'd be the same anywhere - I get grief all the time. I've been harassed for buffing, for healing, for TPing away, for using Break Frees, for teaming, and for generally being an Empath. Not only that, but anyone I team with on my Emp regularly gets harassed... in fact sometimes, they seem to act like I'm not there, like I'm perhaps some kind of automated bot and there's absolutely no talent or difficultly to playing an Empath in PvP, and just rant at how awful my teammates are for "needing" an Empath. It's even happened when I've been on a duo going up against vastly superior numbers.

It's been going on since the zones were released. You get some of it on Corruptor teams if you're doing well, too, but sometimes it feels like just being in a zone on an Empath (or being in a zone teamed with one) is enough to warrant all kinds of abuse being thrown at you. I've never had it happen to me on any of my other heroes - it's as though Empaths are somehow cheating, but anything else is fine, including Sonics who have CM with a different name.

On the flip side, sometimes it's kinda funny, and you can always /ignore when it stops being amusing.

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1. Gatling, as said before a lot of how good a blaster is depends on the team. Gatling very very rarely dies and can still own without support.

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This fits in oddly with a "discussion" I was having with some people the other day. They felt the only real PvP was 1v1, no support toons. I tried to explain the concept of team PvP, and the fact that there's a talent to teaming and coordinating with others well.

In part, that's why making a list like this is pretty much impossible - the five best at duels probably aren't the same five who are best in a team setting. Plenty of people who are great in the zones and not so great in arena, and vice versa.

That said, I tend to rate Frozen Electrum very highly - but I'm going on team situations, as I don't really keep up with how well people duel.

I'd be concerned about the lack of end reduction slotting in Sonic Dispersion. I'd go for at least two, and I'd say they're more important there than in the single-target buffs, which you only use every four minutes, and Telekinesis which you won't want to run all the time. Much like Dispersion Bubble from FF, you'll want it on all the time, and it adds up to quite a drain if you're using it on a Controller who uses a lot of other powers.

You also might want to consider a third end reduction in Disruption Field if it's as bad as I remember - my boyfriend's Ill/Sonic was near unplayable when he tried to run that along with his other toggles, and Mind has a lot more to do than Illusion.

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I don't know what power you are on about as the heavies don't use the same noxious gas or poison trap that we are talking about.

What power are you on about?

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Follow the thread. People were discussing the animation caused by a power in Traps. SinghMC mentioned that hero heavies cause the same animation (different power, but same problem), and my reply was about this issue. You then replied to me, so I assumed you were talking about the heavy attack.

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This is working as intended. Its supposed to be hugely hard to resist it. I think its a Mag 1000 hold like the MM poison power Noxious Gas.

Technically possible to resist but in practical terms you will never be able to resist a mag 1000 hold.

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I'm not talking about the hold, which is, just so you know, very easy to resist - I know because I regularly run around RV in a Thermal/Kin duo, and we don't get held by the heavies as long as we're keeping our buffs going. What we DO get is an irritating unresistible animation which doesn't hold; it doesn't drop your toggles, doesn't give a 'Held' message, etc.

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The Hero Heavy in RV also does this "Unresistable" animation at the end of one of its attacks. I feel sympathy for the poor villains when hit by this (and consequently getting murdered in that time).

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Yeah, it's actually more irritating on the heavies than a /Traps Corr or MM. Get hit with it on a squishy, and you're basically dead, given the single-target ranged damage the hero heavies can pump out. It's the one thing about heavies that really bothers me.

It's still a bit irritating on a Corr or MM, but on the other hand, they're stuck with an otherwise pretty dire set, and generally can't kill you anyway. Plus the Poison Trap is more avoidable than a ranged heavy attack.

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Also how are you slotting hover/pff etc?

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The def boost from Hover is tiny, meaning enhancements add very, very little. Think of it as a little bonus, and slot it for flight speed if you're going to slot it for anything. Especially when you have no other knockback protection, having Hover fast enough to move around missions is very nice.

I have PFF three-slotted for def, but then I go into PvP with the character. If I never did any PvP, I'd probably still want to slot it for emergency situations, but I'd feel it was less important.


As far as Flight vs. Super Jump, if you go Combat Jumping/Super Jump/Acrobatics you get a bit of +def and immob protection from CJ, a fast travel power, and knockback protection with a little extra bit of hold protection. However, on a Grav/FF Acrobatics can be a big end drain.

With the knockback protection IOs available now, you can probably stick to Hover/Flight without really missing much, because you get immob and hold protection from Dispersion Bubble. If you just find it to slow, even slotted, then one possibility is to also take Super Speed. This only works if you already have the Speed pool open for Hasten, really, but Fly and SS work pretty well together. SS for the flat areas, and then Fly over any obstacles.

Scirocco is good for Darks not just because of Power Sink, but also the shield, which stacks up rather a lot of energy res when used with Shadow Fall.

If you don't find you have massive end problems, I'd still strongly think about BS for the -jump and -fly, but the energy res is really nice against /Energy and /Elec Blasters.

You can always dip into the Medicine pool for Aid Self. You have to pick up one prerequisite power - I've gone for Aid Other, as Stimulant isn't that useful when you have Dispersion Bubble.

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Anywho. I'd still like to know what heroes were around and whether you were teamed with them.

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There were a number of heroes. In fact, our villain team was outnumbered most if not all of the time Tsumiju was in the zone. I'd assumed they were teamed, or at least some of them, but perhaps not?

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Say, nice sig.

That's really childish. No one said they were uber in PvP, or that by being so, it made them an awesome person. In fact, if anything, I've specifically said the opposite - just as being bad or inexperienced in PvP is nothing to be ashamed of, being good or more experienced in PvP is hardly any big deal.

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hmm, lemme check something...

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05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.

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That's Syn saying you suck, not that he's uber. Plus, it was only said after putting up with insults and ranting on your part.

I would never say I'm 'uber', unless I was joking around, because it's a damned silly thing to say, and I know how much better in PvP plenty of other people are anyway.

Say, nice sig.

That's really childish. No one said they were uber in PvP, or that by being so, it made them an awesome person. In fact, if anything, I've specifically said the opposite - just as being bad or inexperienced in PvP is nothing to be ashamed of, being good or more experienced in PvP is hardly any big deal.

You're really missing the point - people just get irritated (or amused, sometimes both in equal parts) about people whose first reaction to losing in PvP is along the lines yours was. No one was ever trying to lord it over you because they're better than you at a game.

But hey, keep it there if it makes you feel better. You're the one who's ending up looking silly, though.

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The amusing thing is that every time I come up with the casual gamers interpritation, I get a reply from the stat police. Have you considered that people just want to enjoy the game, whatever their gamer style, which is precisely the point I'm trying to make about balance.

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The thing is, the game doesn't work on your 'interpretation'. It works how it really works, and that's all people are trying to tell you.

If you step into a PvP zone, you have to expect people might fight you. Further, if you go in as a self-avowed PvE player who admits to not knowing a lot about PvP, you have to expect there will be people in there who know a lot more about PvP mechanics than you do, and who will have more PvP experience than you do.

Doesn't it seem fairly ridiculous to say yourself you're not much of a PvPer, and then claim the game is broken when some experienced PvPers beat you? There's no shame in not being any good at PvP, or simply not liking it, or not having any experience in it, or not having a PvP build. I think the whole point of the thread was just that - rather than admit to something that there's nothing wrong with at all, you basically started screaming OMG OVERPOWERED VILLAINS GAME IS BROKEN.

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Dominators get domination which can effectively overpower controllers, who as I understand it have better holds when domination isnt in effect, but PvP rarely ends up coming down to successive hits or prolonged battles.

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A Dominator needs a prolonged battle to even get Domination in the first place. You don't start with it, you have to work it up while fighting. Kill a Dom, and it'll have to start all over.

Controllers, on the other hand, are strong from the outset. By your very own ideas about how PvP works, Controllers have the upper hand.

And really, as I think has already been said, buffs and debuffs are generally far more important in PvP than holds, which are pretty easily countered on any half-decent team.

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As I said, I don't profess to know every power from merely its effects when it hits, but it was suspect that all that defence was ingored by a villain hold each time I went up against it. Other powers were missing because I rammed up my defence, but the hold still got in there.

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Holds have an inherent acc boost. This goes for Controllers as well as Dominators. With the amount of acc and tohit boosts we had, and the debuffs we had on you, it's not surprising holds were getting through. And they weren't the only thing hitting anyway.

As Hammerfall has pointed out, I think there is still an issue with Dominate from Mind Control ignoring positional def, but the Dom was Fire/Ice, so it's academic really.

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As for trash talking, if you can spend an entire weekend in the SAME ZONE farming, then you should be able to take a little trash, but your post would suggest the opposite. Now you KNOW that you cant see an opponents powers in PVP, but from the rate that you dropped everyone, it's a reasonable supposition to think its a PvP build you're using, especially given the punishment that my ( Whole ONE level 50 character that I play CoH with, hence the accolades ) character can take.

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All weekend? We were in for about 20 minutes in the morning when no one was there, and had been there 20 minutes when you called us cowards. We left after all the heroes left, and went to WB for more PvP. Please, don't just make things up.

EDIT: Just thought I'd point out, only Syn, myself, and Light Petting were there in the morning, and LP was there for less time than Syn and myself. Not sure how long the rest of our SG have been around, but we're a small SG, and we've been doing an awful lot of PvE mission teams over this weekend, so I know they've not been there very much. Perhaps you're mistaking us for someone else?

Also, LP barely PvPs, has very little time to play (as he has an extremely busy life), and hence doesn't really make PvP-only builds. Your suggestion we had no lives was a little off. Some of us organise perimeter guards in our spare time some of us PvP. I'd be insulted, except I found it rather funny instead.

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I'm currently playing a lvl 15 Grav/FF (my first char ever) and the skills like lift, crush, grav dis, propel and then personal bubble and the melee bubble. Other skills are Hover and Fly.

Any good advice on how to optimise on this char? It works fairly well in a 2 man team (2nd being a scrapper) since I really do very little damage and ok'ish holds on the enemy. However I can't really go out and solo much

Any help would be greatly appreciated

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Grav/FF can make a very good solo/small team character. You will sacrifice some large-team ability if you want to go all-out, though.

As already mentioned, slotting the immobilise for damage really helps if you want to do this, along with taking and slotting Lift. Acrobatics is handy if you don't like being knocked back, or you can go Hover if you don't mind spinning in the air and occasionally being -flied. Running such toggles along with Dispersion Bubble, and attacking full-out, will really end through your endurance though, so go for Stamina.

My levelling build and tactics essentially consisted of setting missions to Invincible, and then going through missions cycling the hold, immob, and Lift. Invince in a lot of maps and missions will give you spawns of 3 when solo - the PvP zone missions are good for this. So you can drop hold on the first, then immob and Lift getting containment, then move to the next. You can keep all three held if you slot the hold 2/2/2 (acc/hold/recharge) with SOs. I also took the AoE hold for bosses and emergencies, and Wormhole. I skipped the shields. It's very safe, and not really very slow, as long as you make good use of Containment. Not the most exciting thing in the world, but if you just want to be able to solo when your usual teammate's not around, it's great. You can also chat with people while you solo.

I actually found I slowed down in the 30s (mid 30s, really) despite having Singularity slotted 3 hold/3 damage. He does help, but past the mid-30s the xp just seemed to slow to a trickle solo. As a result, I respecced into a full team build recently, and have gone for more large teams. That's one of the nice things about Grav/FF though - it can be an awesome solo or team combination.

I'm sure you could also work out some kind of hybrid build that'd be better in both situations if you tend to do a mixture of solo, small teams, and large teams. And even in large teams you won't always be useless with the solo build I used... you just might find some where your control isn't needed, your damage isn't needed, and you can't buff. I always found I was appreciated on teams with no Tank, though, with the AoE hold and Wormhole.

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Still, it'd mean one buffbot Emp in Hosp wouldn't negate Dominators and Stalkers massively..

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An Empath just parked in a zone hospital won't negate anything, unless you're only fighting just outside the hero base. You only really find stacked CM on whole teams if there's a decent Empath actually trying, and really doing their job.

My only issue with CM is the fact that villains don't get a full equivalent until level 35 (Clarity), and even then, it's on a powerset that just isn't that great for Corruptors.

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Yes, undoubtedly. I said they bothered me. Being slowed to oblivion so I can't attack or move and then burned to death bothers me. Once in that state, I'm not sure I have any capability to defnd against it, since it's already happened.

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If that's the same instance of slowing and burning you've been talking about elsewhere, when Syn and I attacked you, your problem is Corruptors, not Dominators. It's the debuffs giving you trouble. A couple of Dominator powersets can do some real slowing and other debuffs secondary to their attacks, but it's not the AT's overall strength.

People would abuse it, though, and use it as a way to switch teammates based on who they're fighting.

If the tourny's supposed to be a set team 8v8, then it should really stay that way.

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Rules update: You may NOT switch alts at any point during the tournament. The character you enter the first match with is the character you MUST play throughout the entire tournament.

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Just to clarify for everyone - I'm assuming only one build is allowed, too? (i.e. No making 5 versions of your alt, and switching between them.)

It was good to see the raid go ahead despite the technical problems. Seemed like there were more GMs than usual, though... or maybe I just haven't noticed while I've been ABing people the last couple of raids? I ended up spending the whole time out rezzing and healing this time.

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Why don't FU/LoUD merge with some other union players to form an 8 man team?

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That was sort of my thinking - I was going to get Syn to shout at KS about it, but KS shouted at Syn first. Not sure if it's all set yet, but it looks like at least Syn and I might have a team.