Cavatina

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Anyway, opinions can be "wrong." As an example there are quite a few people in prison who do not believe that they should even be in prison. In their opinion their actions were acceptable, society however has collectively decided that their opinions are "wrong."

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Doesnt mean that using politics wasnt a really frigging horrible idea.

Barack Obama is more qualified to be the president than John McCain.

What's that you say? You disagree with me? Well, obviously you're wrong?

What's that? It's just a matter of opinion, so you can't be wrong?

Oh, but I have the majority on my side, and that means your opinion CAN be wrong.

/sarcasm

Yeah, sorry, doesn't work that way. An opinion is still an opinion regardless of how many people share it. An opinion cannot, by definition, be right OR wrong. If it could be proven conclusively right or wrong, it would no longer be an opinion.

Also, I'm not trying to make a political statement with the above, just using it to illustrate the fact that just because a majority holds an opinion doesn't mean the minority opinion is "wrong"

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Well now we know why salvage is going for crazy prices on the market.

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Because people are willing to pay it and are too lazy to farm it themselves?

No supply + mass demand = prices rise. Simple economics.

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Honestly, any MMO with loot is going to end up having a few stupidly rare items. At least in CoX anyone, even casual players, can eventually get any item in the game. Play a 50 long enough and you will end up with enough inf to buy even the PvP 3% defense IO. It may take a long time, but it's possible. Compare that to many other MMOs where it's literally impossible for a non-hardcore player to ever get the top loot because doing so requires a lot of raiding for non-transferable items. Like in FFXI, where there is a boss that requires dozens of people on a 24 hour raid to defeat it. You can probably count the number of times it's been beaten on one hand. Or WoW's "grind raid dungeon A for months to get gear so you can grind dungeon B for months so you can get gear to grind dungeon C for months..." format. The worst I've seen was Earth and Beyond, where there were items that gave crafters a huge advantage by boosting item quality... and the items were hyper-rare random drops that had a drop rate of around one per year per server. Needless to say, they could not be bought at any price... the only one I ever heard of being sold went for a large chunk of real-world cash.

Compared to that nonsense, a billion inf for the game's rarest IO isn't that bad...

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excepot. Y'now. theres less rare loot thats insanely better.

IE Purples.

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I have my team message field set on my lvl 35 defender on Victory to say "No AE - No Blind Invites", turn on the active "Looking for team" flag when I start playing and have managed to get into groups almost every night I felt like being in one. Sometimes arc missions, sometimes radio missions, sometimes a task force invite. But I almost never find myself lonely the entire night.

I do agree with people who want the AE building out of AP/GC/KR but I can't go so far as to claim that it's killed the game. At least not my game.

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Same experience for me and my friends on Infinity.

I get TF/pug invites almost every time i log on at any time of day both from friends and people i dont know.

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We can't force people to stop using the AE for fast 50's, but it seems like the average person doesnt give them a whole lot of incentive to stop when they try to.

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Some of us on Triumph are running a weekend long, server wide event to help newer players learn the game and explore other areas the game has to offer.

Not everyone treats newer players badly.

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Thats good to hear at leats. I get annoyed at how often people seem to rage about the AE in broadcast in Atlas when I pop into virtue yet when people try to ask "wheres so and so zone" people rage at them. ;/

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Um I thought a few pages ago you said it was an exploit and that there was absolutely no risk in fighting 17 level 54 lieuts with less-than-l33t powerset choices. W/e. TBH I agree Mitos are exploits but I'm still going to use them if I get the chance because I, like many others, am completely repulsed by the thought of taking longer than necessary to do my least favorite part of the game (the non-50 part).

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Seriously Rikti, if you have toons that can not easily survive level 54 Lts and Bosses that are custom tailored to be as weak as possible against your toons strengths, then you just plain stink. I also never said it was an exploit.

If you can apply a little reading comprehension, the discussion is referring to new players coming into the game that believe the AE is the entire game. Also, given the choice of the easy road to 50 within a few hours by running quick-and-easy AE farm missions or at least trying some of the other content, it's a safe bet what route most will go.

Something like the Mitos is an exploit. Creating farms of NPCs custom tailored to be as weak as possible against you is not, but also not necessarily good for the game overall either.

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But by the same token its easy to find enemy groups that already exist that are completely tailored to be useless against a chosen powerset in the regular content.

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um perez and sewers are really low level, that's why.

and just because 5% of players above 20 are still doing regular missions doesn't mean it's not as good as dead. It doesn't have to hit 0%. No mmo has been shut down with 0 players logged in having fun.

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You missed the whole first part of my post apparently.

5 team. Mothership raid.

Oh look. at least 40 people doing NON-AE content right there.

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PvP IO's are off the charts these been no drops due to bug so they say http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....v=#Post13690274

A stong argument has allready been had about this and has yet to be resolved.

Making the prices exceed 700mill!!! for some and have zero left on the market.

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Fixed PvP rewards to function once again. Now, influence, inspirations, and other normal rewards occur on every PvP kill, while PvP IO recipes can only be rewarded on rep-valid kills.

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This means no recipes in the arena right?

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Not true.

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Fixed rep-validation to function in arenas, even though it doesn't give you any reputation in arenas.

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They made the rep-validation work in arenas, so players could get PvP IOs in the arena. However, you WON'T get any REP in Arena.

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I'd say it's technically going to be possible to get PVP IO drops in arena, but it'll virtually never happen. If A kills B he gets a 1 in 100 chance at a PVP recipe drop. Then for the next 5 minutes he not gets no chances. Further, if what people have been saying about the timer resetting is true, he will basically likely get no further chances assuming he can kill B at least once every 5 minutes. Further, since for some bizarre reason B's timer gets set for A when the kill happens, B essentially has no chances at a drop during the entire match.

This is why people are complaining that low-pop server players are screwed. If there are only 4 people in a zone and they're engaging relatively often, they'll quickly get into a mode where none of them can earn PVP IO drops unless they sit out for 5 minutes.

They need to remove the timer reset and change it so only defeating a player sets a timer, not being defeated by a player.

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Even if they do implement your suggestion I still see PvP IO's being ridiculously overpriced. When they were dropping and getting farmed the supply was pretty thin and still high priced on the sought after sets. I'm guessing they stayed in the somewhat reasonable price range because both pvers and pvpers could farm them. With this new patch they for the most part cut the pvers out of the picture. Now it will be up to the zone pvpers to supply the market.

Now how many people in this game actually pvp on a regular basis? I'd guess around 5% and that's being generous. Now take into consideration that even when PVP IO's didnt have restrictions on the drops I got maybe 5 of them since they came out, and I PvP regularly. I expect these things to be damn near unattainable for most people when this patch hits live.

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IF that ends up being the case to me (me at least, don't know about anyone else) there will be even less point to these. Since you need at least two or three of each to get any relevant set bonuses (forget trying to use them to go for the 6th bonuses that are pretty good), if these things dry up of the market, they may not even be there to try to get 2 or 3 together, no matter how much inf you have. You could end up being one of the market guru billionaires and STILL never see enough of one set to make a 6 or even 5 slot set in a power EVER.

I hope this isn't the case. Some of these things are already currently more rare and expensive than PURPLES. I thought the point of these was to get more folks to pvp?

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For a game that claims to be for the casual player this doesnt fit at all.

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Tell the devs? I mean. theres no supply at the moment.

And even when it restores, the new rules for their dropping means supply will never be good again. They'll probably never go down in price until theres an abundant supply.

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If the dev's made AE no xp that would be a very bad move & would leave the AE building dead. It would anger most of COX population and they would lose more customer's, just like what happened when they nerfed pvp into garbage.


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PvP is a second banana. Those that left because of it were not really noticed.

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And? AE isnt PVP. a lot more people use AE than ever used pvp. Sure its not proof they'd leave, but its certainly proof using pvp as an example is a bad idea.

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If Infinity had no population then how the hell did we get a 5 team Mothership raid going on a WEDNESDAY ?

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I missed out on a raid last night?

Ah, Infinity. Cap au Diable, broadcast:

nub: LF AE
nub: LF AE
a friend: The AE building is located near fateweaver.
nub: LF AE taem
me @ market: You'll find them generally in the AE building.
nub: LF AE taem plz
nub: I now wehre AE is. Im lokin 4 a taem!

That poor nub probably thinks Infinity is dead because he can't get on an AE team. Never mind the fact that he's a lowbie and has nothing to contribute to the team outside of brawl, spams broadcast, and has no clue how to even look at getting a 'taem'.

Perhaps if the nub was looking for a team, he might do better.
I apologize in advance for the stereotypical moron portrayed here. I just find them more memorable than others.

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Yes. Yes you did miss it. It was glorious. New person leading it. she did great, and we got about 17+ minutes in the center to smash things.

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Do it on the Oranbega map too, the big one. People will love you for it and send you chocolates.

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nah. the paragon map with the graveyard. fences EVERYWHERE

So true.

Like I said in an earlier topic the other day.

Wednesday night we got a mothership raid going. we actually got 5 whole teams of people and had a tremendously successful, 500 or so merit run, and that was with a new raid leader. She did awesome.

So, affterwards i decide to zone to atlas to see if AE spam at 7:30 PM central is flooding the town.

"Perez team needs more"
"lf one more for sewers"

Yeah. AE sure killed the rest of Infinity server.

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COX only has 2 populated server's now Freedom being #1. Not even a year ago other server's were thriving, but not anymore. So tell me something.

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I have no problem finding teams to do anything I want to do redside or blueside on Infinity. I think this is a bit exaggerated.

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Its more than exaggerated. Its outright bull.

If Infinity had no population then how the hell did we get a 5 team Mothership raid going on a WEDNESDAY ?

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And it's as asinine, snotty, and inappropriate as the first time you said it.

But keep swingin' your e-peen, Slappy. I'm sure someone, somewhere is impressed.


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Its clear you have no idea what an epeen is.
Sorry but the internet forums dont provide any such thing

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As you keep saying. And what you keep leaving out is that you run in farms and/or use the "tricks" described above by Keepdistance. And, as I've stated I don't know how many times now, that's not what I'm referring to.


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Im not referring to exploits/tricks either - ALL X Farms make for great XP, keep telling me it doesnt

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I disagree. It defeats a large part of its intended purpose.


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Only if XP is taken completely out. Which is not something i suggest. But its ok, keep thinking nothing will change.

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I'm not "people". So if you're trying to use me as a proxy to argue with these "people", you're wasting your time. I'd suggest you take it up with those "people".


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You defended their position "Parity". So you are one of those "people" lol.

Your not very sharp with this forum thing are you? I mean you decided to give me your input only a few pages back...

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I don't like that you're condescending, period. There's no call for it, sorry. And you're the one who's been stating half-truths. Which is what I initially called you on. And you continue to do it even now.


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1.) You never called me on anything. Theres nothing to call
2.) "Feelings" forum is ------->

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ie AE XP < REG XP (Oh but i didnt mention farms...oopsie).
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There is nothing "half truth" about it


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sorry but /facepalm. That is all.

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And there are other options open to them to deal with it, aside from punishing everyone and nerfing the entirety of the system. You follow?


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Oh i follow, but apparently you dont like to. MA Farms and MA Regular content are created through the same mechanism, anything done to one or another affects both. Something you cant seem to grasp.

So basically what you are looking for is "Nothing to be done".

Because you cant nerf one without nerfing the other. Capice?

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MA being used as the devs intended is not the problem, and does not jibe with your "whole truth".


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MA Powerlevel Farms are intended?

or do you mean,

The devs idea of how MA should work (not for powerlevelling) is not an issue.

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That you can farm MA for huge rewards? No kidding. So what?


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Thats the point, if the ability is there, all MA Arcs will be treated like they can produce the same results (From a development PoV).

So seperating them into Regular and Farm arcs as a rebuttal to any change to the MA XP is asinine..

But i suspect you already know that.

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A lot of people simply aren't interested. A lot more people have only limited interest.


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Taking a page from your notebook...Says you. I see a much different picture, and so do many others.

Just agree to disagree ok?

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This is what you don't seem willing to accept, despite the evidence of it being all over the place. And you call me naive? Get over yourself.


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What evidence? lol
Look up the word Naive when you get a chance.

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You see, I understand that there are a lot of people using MA to power-level. I never said otherwise. Is it too many? I have no clue... and neither do you.
Only the developers can make that determination.


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Smartest thing you have said. Which is why "There will be a change, just a matter of what", so discussions are good and differences of opinion are not bad.

But quit telling me the Sky is Purple. k?

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No, it's a simple observation, and I'm even more convinced of it now. Instead of a snarky dodge, why don't you try and tell me what you think my argument is... and then I'll let you know if you're right.

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Well from where i am sitting, its clear, you have no idea what your argument is outside of Full XP in MA.

Its not a simple issue. And comprimises will have to be made.

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That compromises might be necessary is understood. That doesnt mean that said compromises will be healthy at all for the AE in general, which is why many of us violently oppose them.

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thanks...holy cow...out of all those pool A and pool B recipes i got 6 pacing of the turtles with 10 rolls...why can't i have those odds when i play the lottery.

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I wish i knew this answer myself. the other day i realized a couple of my alts had accumulated 100+ merits each, so I rolled. and got a Miracle proc and a Numina proc o.O

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I enjoy playing lower-level characters as well, because when characters' powers aren't fully developed, they're more likely to appreciate teammates' contributions.

[cynicism]Later, when everyone's in Awesome McGodpants mode, other characters are mostly useful to pad spawn counts.[/cynicism]

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You obviously havent ever played a defender without a heal in early teams. Its not very fun when everyone thanks the "healers" only.

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You honestly want players too lazy to leave a building playing the rest of the game with you?

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I see what you're saying, but what about those people who simply truly do not know there's more to CoX than AE because their introduction to the game was through buying the AE Boxed Edition and they simply followed the instructions of "Go Meet the AE Director", and are having so much fun in AE missions anyway that they can't even imagine anything more?

Because if you believe those people to be irredeemable, by extending this concept, I wouldn't then want to play with Scrappers that rush things and die, and I wouldn't want to play with taunt-less Tankers, or Controllers who AoE-Immobilize first, die later, and yell at the "Healer" to rez them while everyone's still fighting knee-deep in enemies!

People can change, but they sometimes have to be shown the Door exists before they start contemplating what lies through and behind it.

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I agree that some can change..but the vast majority won't. Besides, in the cases of those who would change..arent they usually the ones asking "where is so and so zone" only to have 15 people gripe at them for being an "AE Baby" or called a "noob?"

We can't force people to stop using the AE for fast 50's, but it seems like the average person doesnt give them a whole lot of incentive to stop when they try to.

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And no I'm not talking about the whiners sounding off about not finding teams or having their precious chat box filled with something other than tired out cosplay ideas.

I'm seeing the reality of newer players who don't know jack [censored] about their powers and how it affects those around them. Hell, some 'veterans' are still mystified about powers that have been here since launch. But it's getting worse and while I love my farms I will agree with those who say AE needs to be scrapped completely and/or removed until further notice.


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That's a very good summary of what the problem is IMO. On top of amplifying the issues of inexperienced players, I personally have seen on Triumph alone many new players who bought the Architect Edition believing that AE is the entire game. Out of this group of players, there are those who do go out and explore (once they know there is actually more than one zone). However, there are just as many in my experience who once they realize they have to travel back and forth to contacts and face enemy groups that aren't custom suited to be "super easy" for them, they don't bother with the rest of the game and go right back to AE.

Another poster mentions the sense of "entitlement" that new players have with the AE. Since their brand new first toon ever in CoX got PL'ed to 50 within a matter of hours, why shouldn't they get the same for their next one? And the next one after that?

I also don't necessarily subscribe to the "it doesn't effect me, so I don't care" line of thinking. An easy farming mission we create (for whatever reason) that causes substantial negative changes to the AE effects everyone, not just us as individuals.

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You honestly want players too lazy to leave a building playing the rest of the game with you?

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the AE powerleveling boss farming mito crowd doesn't tick me off nearly as much as those folks that use online map overlays to get the exploration badges and history plaques.

man they tick me off. i scowered every nook and cranny to get mine. donkeys.

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I wiki them >.>

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Based on the current methodology of creating expansion packs I would not expect a sequel but rather continued expansion while improving the graphics to the limit of the engine.

Can probably milk another 3-6 years out of it before the tech is just too old to build on.

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Tell the guys who wrote everquest 1 that. Theyre still making expansions to it, and their engine is so archaic it makes CoH look modern..

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OK, so I've been around a while, and have played the market since launch. However, I play the market with specific goals in mind. Pretty much those goals are always to IO-out one of my toons (one badge toon now!)

So I flip, I craft, I do whatever I need, to get the money I need for the IOs I want. Once I'm done, I'll play the superhero/villain game until one of my alts is ready to think about IOs. Fire up Mids, work out what I need, work out what's going to be expensive, and start to play the market.

I've never had a billion inf sitting on a character, but the toons that I've done the above with, are all sitting on 10-100M each as well as having all the IOs they want. Emp/Psi defender, Fire/Storm troller, PB, Brute, Tank & Ill/FF troller are the current 45-50 toons that are done. I'm pretty sure there are billions of inf invested in them, but I don't really worry about how much it cost. Play the market, fight the mobs, run the missions, build the character.

When I read the Market forum, I'm a bit bemused by the obsession with making huge amounts of money. I'm not complaining here, just making an observation.

So why do you do it? What is the point in having bazillions? Do you have more than you need, or are you saving for super-super-super builds? Do you think it makes a difference (super-IO'd build vs reasonable-cost IO build)? Are you playing the market because there isn't a "Market Trader" MMORPG out there? (i.e. The Market is why you play CoX, not the superness) Or is it simply just bragging rights here?

I take my hats off to the billionaires out there, but while it's off, I'm scratching my head wondering "Why all the effort?"

No offense meant folks, I'm just asking!

-H

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well, I cant speak for everyone, but my personal reasons for doing it are twofold.

One, I like being able to afford the really high end stuff for my toons, and two, and probably more importantly, I find a certain level of fun and excitement in seeing a bunch of IOs I personally put the time and money in for to pay off for a large sum more than what I put in. Its an addicting and fun experience to me.

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it is considered poor design by the majority of the playerbase.

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Arguable.

I've seen a few forum folks complaining about it, yes - forums being a small part of the playerbase, and even there some people like the RSF (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about).

In game, everyone I've played with thought the RSF was awesome.

It's human nature to speak up only when you feel things are wrong, so going from "many people complain about the RSF on message boards" to "the majority of the playerbase dislikes this kind of design" is a very big leap.

Regardless, even if what you claim was true (I don't believe it is) ,if we had to cater to the majority for everything, all the RP arcs would probably have to be deleted to make room for farms. Having options is always good, nothing is forcing you to play arcs with multiple AVs in one spawn if you dislike that.

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the problem with the RSF is its a highly punishing encounter to non-optimal team setups.

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Dark/Energy. and I admit the team was slightly heavy on defenders. Mostly bubblers and sonic resonances. Nonetheless, its not like I contributed nothing to the effort there. :P

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Oh, you definitely contribute a ton holding agro and gathering mobs up, but I must point out the support you had along had a lot to do with your take on dark's survivability =)

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True. though I think it also helped on a lot of the fights that Dark has a ton of neg energy resistance. Though the bubbles did help in keeping the recharge slows off me so i could stay up.

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Well, it seems Southern_Comfort only has an issue with people sporting "Disruptor" or other pvp related badges as a badge title if they've farmed it.

As an aside, I can only hope this change will help zone pvp get more attention.

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The only poissible way to popularize pvp in this game would be if it wasnt a broken, frustrating mess.

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Bad for Johnny Q Idiot, good for marketeers.

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Whay does people looks at markeeeters wif dislike, disdain and ebil?!!? They should luve us ma! After alls, we tell them whut tey need to hear, that they are idiot!

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Just wanted to throw out: Wait till after 2XP Weekend! Nothing wreaks havoc like it outside of the release of AE.

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I'm hoping the devs make the double xp only available outside of AE.

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I'm in full agreement. I think that would be a smart move.

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Yes, do this so that, when they brag about double XP we can say, "Oh nice, still slower than AE, but nice..."

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Oh lovely. another one who thinks farm xp is a reason to judge AE xp superior to regular teams, and who thinks Marketeers are out to screw him over.