Carnifax

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i REfer to Pargon wiki for the amount, oh and heroes get more merit rewards too!

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Do they get more merit rewards per hour though doing TFs instead of SFs?

In other words are the Hero ones giving higher rewards because you've to spend twice the time doing the things? (see Posi or any of the Shadow Shard TFs for details)

I know the Caps SF I did took about 90 mins, but I think the reward for that has been a bit "Katiefied" as people were speed running it in 30, which does hurt casual players not speed running it a fair bit (unfairly IMO)

To be honest with you I'm more of a fan of co-op TF/SFs now than ones for one side or the other. In terms of benefitting the most number of players it seems the most efficent in developer hours, plus I love the dynamic of things like a team of Controllers and MMs, or Khelds and Brutes etc.

I'd like to see a co-op tf set in Dark Astoria for both heroes and villains vs Banished and Tsoo myself.

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OH and more respec options too BTW!

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Sorry, don't follow that one - the villain respec options are pretty well matched to the hero ones already.

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Villains have one extra don't they, via the Patrons one?

For "super" teams normally one evening a week is set aside, I think you'll find it tough to get and maintain a regular team on a daily basis.

M30 Grenade is also a strange choice, it does knockback so the first one that goes in has a chance to scatter 50% of those hit. So unless you've decent timing across the team you'll end up with half the enemies scattered out of the AOE of the slower grenades. Flamethrower, although a Cone rather than an AOE, does twice the damage of the grenade. In fact from what I can see the Grenade is one of the weaker AOEs available to Corrupters.

I'd go with a mixed combo of primary and secondary sets, you may get more uptake that way.

Just my 2 inf.

My Claws/WP scrapper is a lot of fun solo, or soloing while teamed with a bunch of people (play style doesn't really vary on teams). Solo you don't want to be a Tank, too much defenses for solo spawns and not enough damage for it to be interesting.

For soloing across all levels (rather than just the last 11 or 12) Fire/Rad controller is pretty good from day one really if built as a Scraptroller : Things like Air Superiority and/or Ring of Fire give you some single target damage. The Rad debuffs plus Flashfire, Hot Feet and Fire Cages lets you melt hazard zone sized spawns (I was soloing them from about level 8 on).

Happy birthday Standoff, have a good one.

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The Veteran rewards page on the website does seem to have disappeared in the redesign. Or at least, the "show details" links in account details at plaync.com don't link anywhere now.

Best bet? www.paragonwiki.com of course

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Isn't it http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Main_Page now? Paragonwiki is no longer updated since they moved the wiki to the Titan Network

Fireball is good. But the rest of Fire is a bit meh IMO, the shields are nice but are Resistance based, so you'll still be hit.

Fissure is excellent (but not as big an AOE, Range or Damage as Fireball), the %stun will stack with Flashfire, and Earth now gets the Seismic Smash too, which does excellent damage and will hold a boss. Plus Earths Embrace is nice to have and so is the rock armour as its +Defense (although it does look bad. I actually lucked out, it melds with my character cossie fairly well)

If you're volcano based I'd go Earth myself (I did on my Fire/Rad and its lots of fun, works well with any controller who needs to be in close anyway).

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This must be the effect of that new global warming religion.

You know, the one where:
if it warms up it's due to global warming
if it gets colder it's due to global warming
if it rains it's due to global warming
if it doesn't rain it's due to global warming
if it snows it's due to global warming
if it doesn't snow it's due to global warming
if it's windy it's due to global warming
ad flamin' infinitum...

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I heard the 5 year plague of no weather at all (bar some localised atmospheric fog) that Paragon City has been experiencing is all down to Global Warming too.

Stalkers and Tanks. I would have also included (and further disregarded the ONE in the Subject line) Scrappers and Brutes but I've one of each of them at the mo and they're actually quite fun. I'm really enjoying my Claws/WP scrapper. On the Brute I'm not sure if I like being enslaved to the Fury bar.

I used to have a Tank, my first char, Fire/Stone Melee and ended up deleting him once I'd played a Controller for a bit.

I do enjoy a bit of Dwarf scranking with my WS now, but at least with a WS you've the option to switch mid-fight and do something controllery or Blasterish to end plodding fights.

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Its like someone saying he thinks there are aliens, and everyone says hes nuts and he needs to prove it first, while they cant prove there arent aliens either..

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Because you can't disprove a negative!

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Not all my statements are proven false.

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After what has been a rather tawdry thread, battling through one change of direction after another, I have no idea what statements of yours were not proven false and there seams to be no easy way to check.

Would you like to back that statement up with a list of your points that were not proven false?

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Sets did improve character performance.
Certain sets perform much better than others
Certain combos perform better than others.
Several games are harder to play than CoX.
Several ppl logged in more than 1 account on dxp weekend.
Several ppl find Cox too easy and want a challenge.

Cant prove those statements and opinions, but neither was anyone able to prove the opposite.
I was wrong on several other things i admitt, cause others were able to prove i was wrong.

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Yes, maybe in select situations (most combos have strenghts and weaknesses in various situations), yes (that's what synergy is), maybe but I don't see how thats relevant (most MMOs I've played are about the same but with a 1 enemy to 1 player ratio rather than our more enjoyable 3 minions to 1 player), probably but so what?, sometimes depending on which character I'm playing and with who.

However the main crux of the point is that that doesn't mean that a set that is more powerful, or just plain the 2 sets work better together, should be nerfed. Nor has the game gotten easier really since IOs were preceeded by the i5 and ED changes.

In my opinion of course.

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No he just proved that they used to be easier and were made harder in i3 and then AVs and GMs were made even harder still that bit that was rolled back was the ridiculus regen some mobs had to the point that they could not be taken down without a lot of dedicated -regen

and I'm sorry but giving a mob or anything for that matter so much regen that it cant be taken down is

a) not fun
b) a waste of time

and you've yet to tell us when this making the mobs easyer actually happened so far you have not given one example.

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Take a look at Sapphic_Neko`s post.
Unfortunately i cant remember everything just that they used to be harder.

AT least Sapphic_Neko shows i am not completely stupid :-)

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There's nothing in Neko's post saying how mobs got boosted, just how the no AOE caps made it easier.

Mobs themselves got boosted since i3, especially bosses.

Some of the spawning rules got changed so you don't get +5s in missions any more but the mobs themselves didn't get any harder, that's the closest thing (I never had it happen to me in i3 mind that I can remember. Had it happen that I spawned +20s on a Villains mish before but that was a bug). A +5 Boss now is tougher than a +5 boss from then though.

GMs and AVs also got heavily boosted (and rewards nerfed) since then too.

You mightn't be stupid, but you aren't the best at reading comprehension either.

Having said all that I will admit that some aspects of the game have been made easier, namely the new Hollows. I sorta miss the old one where you had to run around masses of +7 enemy groups to get to your missions.

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Acc got nerfed for bosses and ltn, they used to have higher acc.

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The way Acc & Defense worked in i7 was rejigged so Defense based toons scaled better against higher level mobs. This was because SR and Ice tanks were lagging behind defense based ones.

Didn't make a difference if you didn't have any defense though, so it was a buff for Defense based toons who needed it, not an across the board nerf to mobs.

That's the change I remember anyway.

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No he just proved that they used to be easier and were made harder in i3 and then AVs and GMs were made even harder still that bit that was rolled back was the ridiculus regen some mobs had to the point that they could not be taken down without a lot of dedicated -regen

and I'm sorry but giving a mob or anything for that matter so much regen that it cant be taken down is

a) not fun
b) a waste of time

and you've yet to tell us when this making the mobs easyer actually happened so far you have not given one example.

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Take a look at Sapphic_Neko`s post.
Unfortunately i cant remember everything just that they used to be harder.

AT least Sapphic_Neko shows i am not completely stupid :-)

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There's nothing in Neko's post saying how mobs got boosted, just how the no AOE caps made it easier.

Mobs themselves got boosted since i3, especially bosses.

Some of the spawning rules got changed so you don't get +5s in missions any more but the mobs themselves didn't get any harder, that's the closest thing (I never had it happen to me in i3 mind that I can remember. Had it happen that I spawned +20s on a Villains mish before but that was a bug). A +5 Boss now is tougher than a +5 boss from then though.

GMs and AVs also got heavily boosted (and rewards nerfed) since then too.

You mightn't be stupid, but you aren't the best at reading comprehension either.

Having said all that I will admit that some aspects of the game have been made easier, namely the new Hollows. I sorta miss the old one where you had to run around masses of +7 enemy groups to get to your missions.

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Cox easier than all other mmorpg is proven wrong.
There are some few easier games but many harder ones.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the number of responses reporting their experiences in other MMOs has generally refuted that claim.

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Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

[/ QUOTE ]Wrong! The earliest change to mobs since the game went live, and it's still there on the Developers section of the US Boards, was the change to Bosses, AVs and GMs. In i3 they were made harder. Both Health and Damage were buffed. Damage to the point where an even level Boss could two-shot an unprepared Defender. Bosses also had silly levels of regen (roughly equivalent to an AV before the last increase given to AVs and GMs in i7). This was partially rolled back and bosses ended up at the power level they are now. So no, you're wrong.

Even Emmert acknowledged that he over did it on that one.

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Some ppl said that there are several much harder games out there.
And maybe most ppl didnt play many other games to compare ?


Aehm you do think before posting do you ?
Since you did just prove by yourself that the mobs used to be much harder, so i wonder how you come up to the conclusion that my statement they were harder was wrong ???

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No. He just showed that the mobs were overbuffed and then toned down slightly to their current levels. In other words a net buff.

That's what "partially" means.

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Aaaaarg, that damn thing with the slappy headed pain man.

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A sadistic Richard O'brian?

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Isn't the highlighted bit redundant? Is there any other sort?

Oh, I forgot weird cackling 12th century sorcerer Richard O'Brian, but he seemed pretty sadistic too.

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What former power? Mobs weren't really changed at all. Hell CoT behemoths still use their i4 version of the Inv toggle.

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Mobs had much more HP than they have now and some did hit harder than they do now.

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This is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. And I've never noticed it ingame either.

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I disagree. Going right back it was dull as ditch-water watching a Tank herd the map or a controller being able to AOE hold every single spawn, with 10 Fire Monkeys trailing behind him. Or watching Regen take on the entire spawn. The game is far more balanced than it ever was.

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Totally agreeing with you there...
The aoe hold and herd all mobs in map and 10 fire monkey issues are long gone now.
But what if buff the mobs to their former power while keeping the system as it i now ?

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What former power? Mobs weren't really changed at all. Hell CoT behemoths still use their i4 version of the Inv toggle.

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That's not a difficulty issue, that's a matter of predictability. If you've been through the 1-50 run half a dozen time and paid attention to the mobs then you'll know what they're going to do and when. That allows you to plan your course of action accordingly and the threat that those mobs would pose to a less experience player is partially negated. It's like reading the ending of a novel and it applies to all MMOs.

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True part of it is predictability, but not all.
There once was a time when chars didnt have sets therfore not beeing as powerfull.
There once was a time when mobs used to be much harder than they are now.

Still ppl had fun, even or maybe because it was more challenging.


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I disagree. Going right back it was dull as ditch-water watching a Tank herd the map or a controller being able to AOE hold every single spawn, with 10 Fire Monkeys trailing behind him. Or watching Regen take on the entire spawn. The game is far more balanced than it ever was.

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Not true. Ambushs, walkers and giant monster spawns like Scrapyards super mob prove you wrong.

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How often do you get ambushes ? Even if there are some rare ambushes, they are predictable and can avoid them most times.

How mayn walking mobs are there ? 1 in 100 and when there is one it moves around in a fixed area of some meters.

Scrapyard is ONE mob in a whole game, a mob you can avoid even if you play half sleeping.


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There are a fair few missions which have "patrollers", ie groups wandering about. They can be very fun if they stumble across you when you're fighting another bunch. I would like to see more wandering groups in missions though, it seems more natural than enemies standing about doing nothing. Hopefully the Architect will let you define that there should be wandering groups in missions (but I doubt it somehow to be honest).

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Whats so bad about Elite mobs in WoW or elite mobs in AoC ?
There arent supposed to be soloed so players CANT.

What would be so bad about mission with all elite-mobs in cox ?
That would mean ppl for once HAVE to team to do something.
There would be a challenge again.


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I'd like to see this in the "higher difficulty" setting talked about in Mr Ms suggestion.

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In CoX it doesnt really matter in a missiojn if 5 ppl in a team of 8 are doorsitting while the other 3 do the mission.
All elite mobs would change that.


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I strongly disagree here. Sure there might be some builds & combos that can do this, but not the vast majority of teams I end up on. Maybe you are getting stronger / more FOTM team members than I am. Still, I would like to see options for making missions harder

Happy birthday!

We ordered you a stripper-cake. Hasn't it arrived yet?

How DO you get a cake to take off all its clothes anyway?

The thing is that, especially on PuGs, people don't WANT more of a challenge. For example I was defaulted to team leader last night (urrgh) on a PuG and picked a PI Arachnos paper mish (I like fighting Arachnos, they've a cool variety of enemies), which turned out to be quite a challenge, not least because on the team I'd inherited the 2 Tanks were SKed up from the mid-20s (but did fairly well and weren't afraid to get their hands dirty).

When we finished the mission itself people didn't want to clear because it was "Urrgh, Arachnos". The one who voiced the "urrgh, Arachnos" was the FOTM controller (you know the ones). They weren't the best either. I was gasping for Endurance for most of the mish thanks to all the Mu (a bit of a counter to the Skill vs Sets debate too. I'd have much preferred any other sort of Controller played with a bit more skill in that situation providing some more lockdown).

But one good way to give yourself a decent challenge is to form a PuG made up with people 2 or 3 levels lower than yourself, of tricky mob types and see how you do then.

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Since then, any new character I've rolled (unless it's a concept that needs a lot of investment) I try and earn my way on. It certainly keeps those early levels more entertaining than before. Not sure if I'd quite go the the lengths the OP suggested (and yes, I know it was a lighthearted suggestion) but denying some of those things that have made life so easy has rejuvenated the early levels for me.

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I usually don't transfer any INF/enhancements to new characters partly to make them earn their own way and partly:
* to see a more natural progression to the character that makes me understand them better (it's easy to play a character without understanding it if it's always enhanced to the max);
* to check that it is still possible to 'compete'/get along without outside help.

The latter I started considering as soon as WW/BM was announced and some people expressed worries about the coming market and new players being priced out of the market by veterans. Since then I've only ever transferred INF for a couple of characters and they've never had any problems. If anything the market made things a lot easier for new/un-financed characters, but I'll keep on making new characters pay their own way partly to be sure that they still can.

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I tend do to this now as well, although I used to bankroll new alts with transferred cash or SOs before. With Invention Salvage now about I no longer bother. Only difficulty I had was with my Claws/WP scrapper who was a bit short at 22 to fully slot up with SOs. 1 hour in Dark Astoria beating up blue & white conning zombies fixed that.

I found Warhammer Online was fairly easy but dull. I actually felt a bit bored and underpowered with all the grindy "pull and kite"ing I had to do. Or grinding the same public quest over and over again *shudders*. The first part of every one seemed to be nothing more than a dressed up version of CoHs "Hunt" missions.

I'd love extra slots for some toons too.

But making them purchasable from the store, no way. It gives those with cash a definite edge over those who don't.

I'd prefer either some form of Power Pool (PRAF posted one before) only available from level 35, since in my experience 35 can often be a "free choice" power slot and a few extra slots would be nice from then on, or some TF / Story Arc reward from some new zonal content, could be token based, although we've a lot of different tokens now. Maybe even a Merit reward?

My Necro/Dark eats has beaten a fair few EBs, including Posi who was actually surprisingly easy for me for some reason. Generally I'd open with Fluffy debuff or a suicide zombie attack (& Soul Extraction) followed by throwing every ToHit debuff I and my Lich have at them. The pair of knights is then usually pretty good at scrapping them while Fluffy and I spam-heal and debuff.

Ghost Widow did unpleasent things to my Fire/Rad controller, although it was a fairly prolonged fight with a fair chunk of it spent with me running away trying to kite her and seperate her from the huge spawn she had beside her. I reckon if I'd reset the mish to heroic I'd take her out.

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Aehm you just agreed that its the set not the player :-)

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I sincerely doubt it.

Alright then, I'll get an Ill/Emp up and try the job. Since it's clearly not Rad that's winning, it must be the Illusion Control powerset that's doing it.

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PRAF mentioned in this very same thread that his Illusion/TA has done it. I know Ill/Stormies can do it too, if specced properly.

A Fire/Rad or Fire/Stormie could maybe do it too, depending on the AV I reckon.

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Not denying that at all. And while Illusion control is undoubtedly the best 'troller set for soloing AVs, I cannot believe that player skill has no impact.

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Absolutely agree with you. I was more refuting the claim that ONLY illusion/rad can do it. I reckon a well prepared Fire/Rad or Storm could do it too, but they'd need to be a good player.

My attempts to do it with a Ill/Storm were painful. I just didn't have the knack, I haven't even tried with my Fire/Rad (or Grav/TA, a toon I made specifically because they are reckoned to be weak sets which is great fun because they require some thought and skill, especially early on. Mind you I'd still like a few TA tweaks).

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Aehm you just agreed that its the set not the player :-)

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I sincerely doubt it.

Alright then, I'll get an Ill/Emp up and try the job. Since it's clearly not Rad that's winning, it must be the Illusion Control powerset that's doing it.

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PRAF mentioned in this very same thread that his Illusion/TA has done it. I know Ill/Stormies can do it too, if specced properly.

A Fire/Rad or Fire/Stormie could maybe do it too, depending on the AV I reckon.