Carnifax

Yup. Nothing worse than being on a big team and seeing one of your imps sprint across Room Of Death after someone...

Choking Cloud is a complete aggro magnet too, if you have it. With it and Hotfeet I can out-aggro any aura based Tank.

Hey Flush.

Carni is currently at 47 and gunning for 50 too, soloing is driving me mad at the mo. So if you need a mini-Illusionist to bulk up the numbers (and make an unholy mess) give us a shout @carnifax

I'm normally on after 21 until midnight-ish.

Grats Cats. Teamed with you a week or two back.

And here's me still languishing on 47. Dang...

Also a lot of players can simply out-aggro the PAs, blasters particularly. So in terms of control they aren't perfect by any means, an AOE can grab aggro off them pretty quickly so they aren't doing their job in Controlling the group.

Fear is also a poorish team control when you've AOE happy teammates as it allows people to attack back when hit. Compared to Ice Slick, Flashfire or Wormhole its just not as effective in stopping incoming fire.

The only advantage I can think an Illusionist has as a Support Controller is the fire-and-forget nature of their pets which lets you get on with Supporting the team (I read the OPs question as healing & boosting the team rather than debuffing the enemies).

I love Illusion, its controlled chaos used right (especially coupled with Storm) and probably the best solo set. But I don't think Illusion is the strongest Control set or the best choice for someone building a controller devoted to working / focusing on their team primarily.

I'm currently Level 28 and stamninaless. Planning to respec Stamina in at 30 now as its just getting too difficult. As people say its fine when everything is going well in a fight. But if you start losing minions & resummoning & upgrading suddenly you're in trouble. Darkest Night dropping because you've just spent your last bit of blue resummoning zombies isn't nice. Especially when you're facing a Freakshow Tank Smasher who then starts squishing them again and theres little you can do.

I'm a big fan of Howling Twilight against an unruly bunch of minions & a boss, stun the minions & debuff the boss. Plus its animated like Flashfire except you pull some dark goo from your targets too, looks great. To squeeze it in I'm just using Recall & TP & dropping Hover. I've gotten around handy enough with just TP for 47 levels with Carni so I'm use to lag related incidents.

The reason I think Illusion is a poor Support Controller is simply that the Decoys give you back their aggro when they drop. I've been killed by it lots of times. Also the Phants, while not a massive aggro magnet directly, has a habit of dropping a decoy right where an unaggroed group can see it. When Mr Phant Decoy vanishes (which he does a once his target dies) you and your Phant again get aggro.

You really don't want a support character generating much aggro, an advantage Mind has over Earth as I mentioned above.

Spectral Terror is an inital AOE Fear followed by single target castings at random targets within range if I remember correctly. The secondary Fears look like cone FX but they're only Single Target. Still a great power though.

I rated Earth higher with a Kinetics secondary over Mind / Kin, for a support char (so avoiding AOE damage powers if possible for aggro reasons) for the defense debuffs Earth brings. And the SB / ID / Mr Poo synergy.

That's not taking anything away from Mind. Its a lot more attractive than Earths holds which can be awfully offputting, especially in tunnels against big targets.

Fire / Kin only gets uber at 38 though. Plus Fulcrum isn't great in PvP. In fact Kin in general isn't super for PvP due to most powers needing to-hit. Seeing as the most popular PvP zone is Sirens and you get exemped to 30 you won't even have Fulc Shift for it...

I'd opt for Fire / Storm or Fire / Rad. Fire / Rad is early blooming and very powerful in PvE. Plus the toggle debuffs mean its good for PvP too and you get a self-heal.

Personally though I find Storm a more fun set than Rad. Storm can be better at stripping defense too, with 2 defense stripping powers in Freezing Rain & Tornado (no Tornado in Sirens either though). Snow Storm is a more effective slow power than Lingering Rad as its auto-hit, but Lingering Rad has a -regen effect too, great for Regen scrappers & AVs.

Mind and Earth have oodles of control. So I'd go with one of them. Mind is probably a little sneakier and less aggro-prone due to Confuses & a lack of AOE Immob (which tend to get you squished at low levels). Mind also does more damage, a lot of which is Psychic. However a fair few of Minds control powers are ineffective or resisted by later enemies (stupid Nemises), including Terrorise & Confuse / Mass confusion (needs two applications to confuse a Nemises minion). Also Psy damage is poor against most robots (bar clockwork) & zombies. Mind is also a little poor at setting up AOE Containment (not really a concern for a support until the 40s possibly). You can AOE Sleep but you only get one "batch" of containment damage. Plus your teamies may feck it up on you.

Earth seems a stronger "lockdown" set and you get Mr Poo as a pet eventually. The damage pre-pet is probably less though, and Smashing / Lethal. But again, a Support char won't suffer too much from that. The seconary effect of Earth is -defence to those hit by it, which could work well with the secondary.

For secondaries Empathy is the obvious support set. But Mr Poo, the Earth Pet, would love Kinetics Speed boost, as will teamies, and Kin powers are mostly to-hit (you need to hit a mob with them) so the -def of Earth synergises well with it. Plus Kin has the most powerful Melee heal going, with the drawback that it needs to hit to work.

FF & Sonic shields are options too but for Controllers they mightn't be the best option, the buffs aren't that powerful.

So I'd say Earth / Kin probably, or Earth / Emp if you don't fancy Kin.

3 recharge in Freezing Rain would be one thing. 3 recharge and one End Red is probably the best way to go. You should have them Snowstormed anyway so the Slow in FR isn't really needed.

I don't get much use out of Zapp with my Kin/Elec, the snipe just takes too long in combat really. Ball lightning might be better to slap on the mobs trapped in your Freezing Rain. But thats a matter of preference, Ball Lightning is more likely to get you killed through aggro too.

Lightning Storm I'd slot with 3 dmg, the accuracy is pretty good anyway, you don't need to slot it. The End Drain on it isn't something thats very useful, imo.

Eh? I thought you were keeping me safe Buff. I was planning to be the AOE death / debt magnet

I reckon a little shuffling about of powers is needed. Shouldn't I have 3 recharge in Frostworks too to have it up as much as possible actually?

I might switch Bitter Ice Blast for Ice Shield at 18 so and get Bitter at 26 when I've stamina to use it more. Plus it should help out the slotting of Frostworks nice and early.

Cheers for all the advice folks.

I got Frost Breath and it + Aim are great. Level 11 now so Ice Storm is only around the corner too.

I'm thinking on MaXs advice re: Freeze Ray and decided "Why am I getting this". Theres a Grav / NRG Dom on the team so my feeble attempts to hold aren't really needed.

So I was thinking of getting one of the shields at 26 instead to bolster the 3 Brutes we have (Electric, Inv and Stone defenses).

Which shield is more useful at that stage would people say? Ice provides defense against Smash & Lethal + Resistance to Fire and Cold. Glacial provides NRG & Neg defense and Cold Resist.

Erm, smoke and Flash don't afaik. I'm very sure of that. Otherwise there'd be a massive hole in the game right there, you could lay down 10 smokes without aggro and it'd be better than Darkest Night!

And I thought Poison was targetting at a mob so its debuffs shouldn't either, although the Sleep check should fire twice.

They will stack with each other, so smoke & flash will debuff accuracy by 10% (ish). But firing another smoke doesn't raise that to 15%

In general only Placable debuffs stack with themselves (Tar Patch, Freezing Rain, Disruption Arrow for example)

Oh, the same powers from different toons always stack though. So 8 Fire / TAs could Smoke & Flash debuff for 10% each for a scary 80% accuracy debuff.

I went for TP but that was partially concept for the character too. But TP & Hurricane is great fun, you can switch the point of repulsion instantly by TPing from place to place. Hoverless TP can be annoying when lag kicks in though.

On the city section maps you can open up on the mob with Snow Storm, Freezing Rain and whatever else, then TP to the other side of them to counter knockback and push them into the grinder that is your teammates in the Freezing Rain patch. I find this especially useful for dealing with the knockback of my noob Phantasms attacks.

You can do a Dark build without Stamina, but running Tactics too is asking a lot.

For Shadow Fall use Damage Resist, not Defense. The Defense bonus is pantaloons but the Dmg Resist (against NRG, Neg & Psi I think) is pretty alright. 1 End Red would be handy there too.

Teleport with no End Reductions & no stamina is painful. Hell even with End Red its painful, my level 28 Necro / Dark has to take breaks getting across Nerva. And then when he does get to the mish he has to wait for a bit to get enough juice to summon & upgrade.

You don't need stamina but you will need to 2/3 slot TP with a few Ends to get about without it

I vote for Grav / Storm. No massive reason why but I've played both as Controller secondaries all the way up to 37 and Storm is more fun IMO. I'm still playing Carni, my Illusion / Storm at 46, and I abandoned my Fire / Rad at 37 for the mo because he's too formulaic.

Rad is more powerful and probably better for soloing too but Storm is just FUN FUN FUN!

Plus you'll get do do the Propel & Hurricane combo, whisking up the stuff you propel and whirling it around and around.

I think Bonfires "pulse" frequency was dropped in I7 anyway. Before i7 I could happily perma-pin a Totem against a tunnel wall with a well placed Bonfire. Nowadays its seems less perma.

Also with Bonfire its easy to pin one mob properly, but in large areas his mates will go all over the place and you might annoy your teamies with it. I dropped it after a while, for smoke, as I just wasn't using it much.

If you're doing a respec at 28 it could be well worth your while getting Fly instead of Leaping starting out, for Air Superiority. Fire lacks good solid Single Target damage pre Imps. Air Sup gives you a slight bit of a chain starting out

I found Air Sup becomes obsolete more or less once the Flame Munkies came along so 28 is probably close enough to drop it.

I'd also take Hasten at 30. Hasten & Siphon Speed is always fun and means Flashfire, Cinders & Fulcrum Shift will be up more quickly.

Here's the build I'm thinking of :

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Frozen Wasteland
Level: 41
Archetype: Corruptor
Primary: Ice Blast
Secondary: Cold Domination
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Ice Bolt==> Acc(1) Dmg(5) Dmg(9) Dmg(37)
01) --> Infrigidate==> Acc(1) DefDeBuf(3)
02) --> Ice Blast==> Acc(2) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Acc(37)
04) --> Snow Storm==> Slow(4) Slow(15) Slow(19)
06) --> Aim==> Rechg(6) Rechg(7) Rechg(37)
08) --> Frost Breath==> Acc(8) Dmg(9) Dmg(15) Dmg(25) Rechg(40)
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Rechg(11)
12) --> Ice Storm==> Dmg(12) Dmg(13) Dmg(13) Slow(19) Rechg(23)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Frostwork==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17)
18) --> Bitter Ice Blast==> Acc(18) Dmg(21) Dmg(21) Dmg(23) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
20) --> Hurdle==> Jump(20)
22) --> Health==> Heal(22) Heal(27)
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod(24) EndMod(25) EndMod(27)
26) --> Freeze Ray==> Acc(26) Hold(29) Hold(34) Hold(36)
28) --> Benumb==> Acc(28) Acc(29) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
30) --> Arctic Fog==> DmgRes(30) DmgRes(31)
32) --> Blizzard==> Rechg(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Sleet==> Rechg(35) Rechg(36) Rechg(36) DefDeBuf(39)
38) --> Heat Loss==> EndMod(38) EndMod(39) EndMod(39)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Scourge==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

This is for a regular team. There is a Kinetics on the team so Speed Boost should keep me ticking over until 24 for Stamina.

I wanted to go offense rather than being a bubbler so the two shields were dropped. Would have taken Ice Shield but preferred Frost Breath as a third AOE damage power.

Took Frostwork though as I hear its great.

My Hero builder doesn't seem to think Heat Loss takes accuracy, if it does I'll stick two of them in instead of the End Mod. If I make it that far I might drop Fitness for a vertical travel power and Ice Shield. Does anyone have experience on using Heat Loss instead of Fitness?

Hi Psy and all,
I'm just about to leave work sick so I don't think I'll be able to make it this evening. Really sorry but all I'm good for is bed and sleep at the mo.

Good luck taking em down and sorry for the lack of notice.

I'm starting a new char and am trying to choose from the two above. Sonic seems to be better single target, especially since I don't like the sound of the knockback cone or the sleep (I could be wrong here, never used either)

Ice seems like it could be better for AOE & has a hold. Plus Snow Storm, Frost Breath & Ice Storm seems like a lovely combo.

What are peoples opinions & suggested builds? PvE mainly, in a regular team.

I'm coming around to the Darks need Stamina side of thing too. Although i get by fine without Stamina getting by is one thing, having Darkest Night drop off the boss due to no End is still a pain. And thats solo when I can survive that. In a team dropping DN could make the difference in a big fight.

Also I picked TP as my travel power and getting around is painful, especially now I'm coming into Nerva (level 28 currently) and I've picked up a move I want to spam a bit (Petrifying Gaze). Running about without the bonus speed & jump height of the other fitness pool powers is getting very annoying. I'm very slow altogether!

So once I hit level 30 I'm respeccing Stamina in (drat, gotta do the CoV respec now). It'll also let me start PvPing with this char a bit.

As for Leadership a Dark would benefit well from the Tactics boost as Dark lacks a Defense Debuff to help your minions hit. Manuveres would stack with the -acc of Dark but its a tiny amount. And you'd have to squeeze it in somehow.

So I reckon I'll just 3 slot my accuracy for my tier 1 & 2 henchies instead once I've two extra slots free in my 30s.

I was using tornado yesterday soloing and it seemed fine to me. I could see it and it worked as normal. If there is a small visual change it doesn't really affect gameplay, the location is clearly visible now.

I think the "Invis wears off" thing only goes for 10 seconds if you click a Glowie.

But its impossible to tell.

I've never had much inkling what happens to GI when you attack someone. I think the invis effect for the attacked MoB is permenantly broken, but you will still be invis to future MoBs until it expires.

Another one of those Cryptic areas of the game

Haste and 2 recharge nowadays I think. I dropped GI as I had Steamy Mist anyway.

With Surpression in I've found any time I GI'd the team (Shadowhunter mish & a Hydra mish, both clickies) the # fatalities wasn't worth it. Supression doesn't give you any visual clue that I could see to say "They can see you!"

With PFF you can Ghost, or just run past those that spot you until they lose interest.

The ingame descriptions of powers should be treated as the vague ramblings of a madman rather than canon on how the powers stack up. They're frequently wrong, out of date or both.

The newly updated offical website unfortunately took the ingame descriptions so its equally unreliable and error-strewn.

Best sources of info are Hero Builders or the living brains of people like MaX.

8 UK time I assume

Which isn't currently GMT as its still technically British summertime.