Carnifax

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He/She (rofl) doenst know about numbers, be he/she knows that Terrify/Mass Hypnosys, with 1 acc, rarely miss (yeah, maybe you miss 2 mobs of 10), total domination/flash use to miss almost half group of mobs...
Anyways, my pont wasnt only about accuracy, because aoe hold powers are weak in recharge time and duration too..
bad recharge (longest one), bad accuracy (lowest one) and bad duration (shortest one)..
for these reasons, i dont think aoe hold powers are great, they can be good with 6 slots but there is no gain to get them if you have somethig similar to get... things like mass confusion or aoe fear have similar effect but with better duration or acc or recharge or both

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Thats completely true alright. Since i5 the "best" AOE control was moved from the Holds to the other tools in the sets with the half duration & twice recharge change.

Another reason to skip Flash, the other AOE controls (Spectral Terror in this case) is much better, even without Containment (which the PAs make up for in fairness).

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16:00 is still in work time.

GMT or BST by the way? 16:00 GMT today is actually 17:00 UK time.

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It says GMT in the topic I am well aware that its 17:00 BST and 18:00 here where I live.

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Ah cool, sorry to sow the seeds of confusion.

Good luck with it, sorry I can't join in, I've never even managed to attempt Eden at all.

16:00 is still in work time.

GMT or BST by the way? 16:00 GMT today is actually 17:00 UK time.

Just on the Frostworks issue, I got sent a HP chart from _Brev_ for another Thread. As MaX says in that thread it might help solve some issues on how Frostworks works with different ATs:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Mod Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr

HitPts 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1

MaxHP 1 1 1 1.5 2 1.5 2 1 1 1 1
</pre><hr />

So seems to say Frostworks is useless for Blasters &amp; Corrupters, they're at their Max HP already, of slight use to Stalkers, Dominators, Defenders &amp; Controllers, of use to MMs (esp if they like to use Bodyguard mode &amp; take Alphas) and good for Scrappers, Khelds, Tanks and Brutes.

No indication of how it affects Pets / Henchies on the team though. Its interesting though as Stalkers &amp; Doms would have been up there as strong potential targets for this. Seems I'd be better off applying to MM pets instead of the measly 5.2% it grants to those ATs.

The original US Source for this is Here

Hotfeet before level 32, imps after.

The hold is ultra-important. Fire Cages is great combined with Flashfire and/or Hotfeet for AOE Containment Damage, Ring of Fire isn't hugely important but does do decent damage.

Theres a guide link in my sig, its all purely my opinion though.

Just on the Hitpoint thing I got this PM from a lapsed UK player who plays in the US, _Brev_. It seems Blasters are stronger than Corrupters who are stronger than Controllers, Defenders, Stalkers &amp; Doms.

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Hi Carnifax,

I play on the US servers but I do browse the UK forums quite a bit (I actually live in the UK and have this account left over from when I had a trial - I can't post on your boards but I can PM - hence this!)

Was just reading the thread on the Dom boards were you were all discussing AT hitpoints and I thought this information might be useful to you - it is from iakona's guide. Iakona has details on virtually all the numbers in the game (his source is secret but has Dev-level credibility - the numbers are generally regarded as gospel).

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Mod Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr

HitPts 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1

MaxHP 1 1 1 1.5 2 1.5 2 1 1 1 1
</pre><hr />

So as you can see, the list actually goes:

Tank
Brute
Scrapper
Blaster
Kheldian/Corruptor
Controller/Defender/Stalker/Dominator
Mastermind

However in terms of max achievable HP (with buffs like dull pain / frostworks etc.):

Tanker/Brute
Scrapper/Kheldian
Everything Else

Hope that's useful to you - feel free to post some of it back to that thread.

Cheers, Brev


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This Fire / Rad vs Fire / Kin comes up all the time.
Personally I prefer Fire / Rad since I alt so much it takes ages to get to 38 &amp; the Kin uberpower. Fire/Rad is powerful by about level 12 and just keeps growing from there. Plus being a SB munkey gets irritating.

Also it depends what you're teamed with. If you're duoing with a Grav / Kin I'd go Fire/Rad to add some defense to the team. AM will add a bit of End Recovery to them anyway and RI gives you decent defenses and helps Kinetics to-hit rolls out.

Kinetics is scary powerful too though. ID &amp; SB'd Fire Munkies? With added Siphon Power &amp; Fulc Shift? Nasty.

Both are frighteningly powerful though. I picked up my Fire/Rad yesterday to do my level 37 Devouring Earth mish, mobs +1 / +2. I entered the final room of the mish and triggered 3 groups (about 10 mobs, +2s, two groups and one Hostage group I think). 15 seconds later they were all dead. 10 seconds of that was me just standing there and letting 6 Choking Cloud &amp; Hotfeet to death whilst the imps killed the other 4 across the room (which I didn't even notice until I turned around to find the imps mauling em)

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noxilia sounds like a disease if you ask me . Mine ones are called Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... can you guess the rest?

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ChristmasDay, EasterSunday and StPatricksDay?

All these Necro names are very angsty (something I'm also guilty of).

How about Little Fairy Princess or something similiar. A sweet lil girl who has 6 rotting corpses as buddies?

Or Little Scary Princess maybe.

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yeah but tanks shields absorb a proportion of incoming damage too, doens't mean they have more hp they can take the same amount of damage with shields up or shields down, just it takes more attacks to get them to recieve that amount of damage, same goes for mm's in bg mode their hp remains the same, it's the amount of damage they recieve that's lower

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Yep. You can only compare base with base really since you mightn't be in BG mode or have all your minions set to Follow / Defensive. And you'd have to start counting other ATs shields, debuffs etc.

In any case 3 minions gives you 60% reduction (3/5s of the damage). If you wanted to work out how much base damage that would equate to its your current HPs / 4 * 10 (you take 2/5s).

For full 6 man BG its 75% (6/8) (so the other aren't as effective, BG has diminishing returns). Divide by 25 * 100, or * 4 (you take 2/8 or 1/4).

For necros Full is 7 man, 78.8% (7/9). So / 22 * 100 ( you take 2/9)

Dr Rock has the Sustainable Damage Comparison Application which works how how much damage you can take. Not sure if it factors BG Mode though but its pretty impressive.

I think the duality of Doms has been taken too far to be honest. Domination makes it too "underpowered / overpowered at the click of a button". The Holds could stay where they are but the Damage could be normalised between the two a bit.

Congratulations on the 50!

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I thought Defenders were Controller levelled HPs too, but they could be Blaster.

[/ QUOTE ]Defenders, controllers and blasters had the same HP, but blaster HP was increased in I5.

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So its:

Tanks
Brutes
Scrappers
Blasters, Stalkers
Doms, Corrupters, Controllers, Defenders
MMs

?

More. Same as Stalkers AFAIK.

I thought Defenders were Controller levelled HPs too, but they could be Blaster.

Then our work is done

I agree with PRAF though, Flash is the one I'd drop.

I like being semi-transparent. It gives a nice ghostly effect. I just switch it off if I want a proper screenie. But it does suit my chars that have it &amp; Steamy, it fits their concepts.

For my money Shadowfall is even better than Steamy Mist, just for the types it offers resistance against.

The Stealth is useful for getting around town too, for Superjump and TP its very handy having a bit of stealth in case you land beside someone nasty.

If its Shadowfall or Whirlwind I'd certainly pick Shadowfall.

Thats a great picture! I got goosebumps looking at it.

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Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.

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Joint weakest is still weakest

According to NoFuture its the slowest of the three to activate, all other things being equal that makes it weaker. Certainly it takes longer to trigger than Cinders.

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yet being able to cast it while invis makes up for that widely imo

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Indeed, but you can Smoke and Cinders too, basically the same effect, except you don't have to worry about Surpression as far as I know, just slap it on unaggroed mobs &amp; they won't see you, even if you attack someone else (not too close to em mind).

One nice thing with Flash is that the to-hit is made against everyone in range at the start of the animation. This saves it from being truely useless, with Mr Knockback behind you AOE NRG Blasting everything its quite frequent that by the time they're actually Held they're halfway across the room.

So the Animation Time isn't THAT much of an issue thankfully.

Deceive is great solo and on small teams. Flash is poor until you get SOs and as people say above it becomes a Panic Button later on, most teams kill things so quickly you'll just be PAs, Spect Terroring everything and Blind / Deceiving choice targets.

My Illusion / Stormie doesn't end up in the thick of things often so i don't like having to run in to PBAOE. It is useful for Freezing Rain, as mentioned above but 2/3 slow-slotted Snowstorm applied first works as well for most groups too (doggies being one exception. Stupid Warwolves).

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Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.

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Joint weakest is still weakest

According to NoFuture its the slowest of the three to activate, all other things being equal that makes it weaker. Certainly it takes longer to trigger than Cinders.

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several of the Retribution team have started up accounts in the US as the amount of PvP in the EU has grinded to a complete stop

so if any1 feels like they want to actually do some big team pvp come across and join us we're on freedom server and the sg in called 'The New Vanguard' and is open to all EU pvp'ers

the americans apparently love 8v8s and 16v16s so the more the merrier

some of The Paragon Defenders will be joining us too, it's about time to show the US how to PvP


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No wonder I havent seen anybody online to PVP... The more of us leave the less PvP there will be here.. sigh.

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Indeed, I'd rather stick around and try improving things rather than bailing out.



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and what exactly have u done to try to improve things?!

i'm hosting a tournament this sunday that has had 12 entrants, 6 of which are PvP regulars, that leaves 6 people i dont regularly arena with. if people dont wanna enter then i dont see why we shud spend time organising events to try to bring some life into the almost dead levels of PvP over here

also were not leaving EU, just PvP'in over there as well because they have tournaments with 5, 8 and 16 people in a team. any tournament over here with those numbers in a team would have 0 entrants

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The reason I haven't entered any of these is because every competition seems to be for level 50s or level 40 villains. And I just don't have level 50 toons or level 40 villains.

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I took teleport friend just as a team support thing as i'm usually leader and it saves time wasting away in the hollows. Flight is my choice of travel. Cheers for quick response, i had flash and respected out of it.Is it worth getting rid of blind then on my next respec? is there any point in having blind and flash?

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You certainly want Blind, its your Bread and Butter power. Of the two drop Flash I'd say. You need Blind, its my most used power.

Basically I wouldn't take Recall Friend unless I'm taking Teleport (which I did, but with no Hover). Illusion / Storm is a tight build and the Hollows only last 10 levels. Once you hit 14 people won't need TPs as much, or at all really, they'll have their own Travel powers.

Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers, and I use PAs, Spectral Terror &amp; Blind as my Control powers mostly. But I like having Flash. Comes in useful with Freezing Rain, as mentioned above, and in the late game when you come across enemies that are immune to Fear &amp; Confusion its handy to have.

It's not critical though if you want Recall Friend for concept, of blind, deceive &amp; flash I'd drop Flash.

Deceive is certainly worth it. Great power.

For a Illusion / Storm I find Flash handy for flash &amp; Freezing Rain combos or as a panic button. You've no immobs so its the only thing you've got.

Why Teleport &amp; Flight pools? At low levels I never see a point in taking 2 powers that are basically useless for combat.

Cool, Carni should be able to come along for my 1st ever Hami Raid, PAs at the ready.

Get Freezing Rain ASAP, its more useful to you than Hurricane or Steamy Mist. Crush Field + Freezing Rain = PatchOfDeath!

I got Crush over Lift for immobilising AVs and for the Containment with Propel. I find soloing that holding one mob &amp; immob &amp; Propelling his mate goes well. Crush is DoT, which is slightly annoying, but it does slightly more. The DoT works ok with the long animation time of Propel though. However you have Crushing Field so that should do instead with an End Red in it maybe at some point.

O2 Boost is pretty pants. I'd get Snowstorm instead of it personally, the -recharge is pretty handy at low levels, and vs bosses / AVs and the AOE -fly is great against Witchies and the like. Pity the Devs went and made it so bloody hard to see in (and why do Villains still get the old, easy to see version?). Snowstorm also combines well with Hurricane, making it harder for them to approach you.

Tornado is going to be messy, only Grav Distort &amp; GDF have -knockback, your Crush / Crushing Field doesn't. That said I have it with my Illusionist, who's even messier. As long as you bide your time with it it can be great (a level 46 one keeping a level 50 Fake Nemises busy while the team killed his minions for example).

Oh, I've never bothered with Thunderclap. PBAOE Disorientate when you've a ranged AOE hold &amp; the Wormhole / Crushing Field combo? Plus Thunderclap only affects minions which seems pants to me.

Wormholing mobs into a corner and pinning them there with Hurricane sounds like an awful lot of fun actually.

Also with my Fire / Rad I found Air Sup brilliant earlier on (although you do have Propel, Lift or Crush &amp; Grav Distort already) and unused after level 32. Hover might be better for in combat flying in an attempt to switch Knockback to Knockdown for Wormhole, Lightning Storm and maybe Hurricane. I've never tried fly &amp; Hurricane to hover over their heads. I suspect the pushback will still exist but anyone directly under you would have knockdown istead of knockback.

Lightning Storm does benefit from this tactic though. With Carni I just try and do Jump &amp; Lightning Storm in the middle of a bunch to get it high enough so its attacks do Knockdown instead of knockback. Hover / Fly lets you do the same thing even easier.

I haven't got to Wormhole on my Grav / TA yet so I don't know if my "Hover &amp; Wormhole directly beneath me" plan will actually work yet.

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Choking Cloud is a complete aggro magnet too, if you have it. With it and Hotfeet I can out-aggro any aura based Tank.

[/ QUOTE ]You know that's theoretically impossible, right?

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Sure it can. Because the taunt-effect and aggro are not the same. If the taunt effect wears off, the foe will go after the one he's got aggro on.

[/ QUOTE ]Of course, but the quote suggests he can actually draw aggro from foes within a tank's aura, which should be impiossible.

...unless of course he's fighting (relatively) high level enemies and the taunt effect of the aura lasts shorter time than the tick rate is...

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Well I was fighting in Croatoa with a Inv Tank who specifically asked me to switch off Choking as he couldn't hold the aggro. I obliged by dying painfully

Maybe he was just a poor tank but he seemed to be Invincibility Aura / Chaos Tank based, I was standing near him and I was the one that got the hate.

I see, I'm just going to spell it out to see if I've got it right, I'm ignoring the Resistances here and just focusing on the Defense / to-hit calculations.

So Ice Shield gives defense against any melee attacks, any Smashing &amp; any lethal. Glacial gives defense against any NRG, Neg NRG, Ranged &amp; Melee.

So if an SR Stalker has Ice Shield on him and is hit by a Jab Ice adds defense to his Smashing defense &amp; his Melee defense and since his final Melee Defense is probably higher than his Smashing Defense (since he's SR) this is the defense figure used in to-hit calculations.

If Ice Shield went, theorically, onto an Ice Tank its more likely it will help him against only Smashing &amp; Lethal, defense-wise, since he uses Typed defenses.

But if they have Glacial on them and are attacked by a Fortuna Psychic Blast they'll benefit from the Ranged Defense of Glacial as they have no Psy Typed defenses of their own.

Actually how does that work out, offering both Typed &amp; Ranged based defenses.

Like if one only has Glacial up and someone shoots you (Lethal damage) does Glacials defense count? Does it stack with the Lethal protection of Ice Shield or is it just the highest between the two?

And if you get NRG meleed does Ice Shield help at all?