BunnyAnomaly
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Posts
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Joined
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First of all it seems almost a rule (exception being Air Superiority) that Pool attacks stink.
Secondly having a pool where you might take just a few attacks and then have horrible horrible redraw for a bad attack is not good.
I can hardly see anyone dipping into this pool to get a ball and chain attack they can use once every 20 seconds that does bad damage and has long animation/redraw/etc. times... -
Also Assault Rifle/Kin and Archery/Kin, for the fast charging nuke.
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Some of them are waaaaay too good but that is what feedback and balancing is for. Overall I love the idea of having a fifth tier, but many of them are significantly better than primary/secondary powers. On the other hand, the T5 movement powers that teleport you to a place on an outside map are really just junk and should be replaced with something more useful compared to the rest.
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I just can't imagine a melee character of mine not taking it anymore (well, at least Tough if the base set is built around resistance). I guess I like having my melee characters totally self sufficient and being able to survive just about anything, and that makes Tough/Weave absolutely necessary.
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Quote:That's kind of a problem with any technology. Unless it is being 'upgraded' at every level, that super power-armour suit you wore at level 1 should be hopelessly useless by level 20.Originally Posted by Kelenar
I always just assumed it meant you were better at shooting them in places that hurt. At level one, you're just sort of barely nicking people, but by fifty, you're getting crippling pinpoint shots with every attack. And yes, this only really goes so far--if that were the total reason, a level one AR blaster would still have a chance to kill a level 50 minion without much fuss. -
People will tell you what they think because you asked for advice!
You'll find pretty quickly that you won't be considered a healer and that instead you're a buffer. You're just getting around the level where Brutes can kind of tank/take the damage (SOs are available) and shortly afterwards healing becomes significantly less desired. Not saying Pain Dom is bad, just the emphasis really moves away from the slow reactive healing and more onto making your team be more awesome and just not need it
I know when I see a level 30+ team asking for healers, I avoid it like the plague. -
Quote:If you're meaning specific powers...Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Oh I thought the thread was about powers that didn't make sense even within the context of the game world. Carry on.
Rest, on a natural human.
Oh my god, Jane just fell from the plane head first onto bitumen! That's okay, she'll just take a knee for 10 seconds and piece herself back together.
Substitute "head first onto bitumen" for just about any catastrophe which would put you in hospital for a year and then require a further 7 years of physiotherapy to walk and eat again. -
Quote:Yes, and it doesn't make sense when an action movie star jumps out of a plane and survive, takes a 10 second break and is good to go. That's what this thread is about right? Also point me to the action movie where he survives a literal torrent of bullets, which hit him, and wound him, and he survives, where you didn't say "that makes no sense". Because again, that's what this thread is about.Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
It's not natural, it's Natural, with a capital "N". It's what action movie heroes have been using for decades.
PS to those saying natural is an alien, re-read my first sentence. This goes to these two posts:
Quote:Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Unless you are "natural" in the sense that peacebringers are.Quote:Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Or Superman. His powers are due to being born Kryptonian. So he's a Natural hero who can take a nuke to the face and play ball with asteroids.Quote:Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
The entire "Natural" source of power when it is being used by a natural human.
Lastly, I covered this one too.
Quote:Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Perhaps bullet proof vests can cover the "shot 20 times in 5 minutes" deal, and very good landing form can show the landing off of a building thing.Bullet proof vests don't survive 400 people shooting you full auto with machine guns the size of cannons. This again is firmly under 'technology'. I'd love to hear about the physics of your legs taking an impact at terminal velocity onto solid concrete where you can walk away from it. A 'good landing' would mean that you are a splat only 5 meters in radius rather than 10 meters.Quote:Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Every excuse points to other sources, like technology. -
Quote:Don't ruin some potent DOOOM predictions thanks!Originally Posted by Jetpack
How fortunate that it has been said that inherent Stamina will not have the values changed.
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The entire "Natural" source of power when it is being used by a natural human. Even at level 1. No natural human can be shot 20 times in a five minute period, fall off a 30 story building, and then still go and beat up hellfire breathing devil worshippers. With your bare hands. Every excuse points to other sources, like technology.
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People who are seriously complaining about this ought to be tarred and feathered as one of 'those people'. You know who they are. The ones who complain to the council that street signs are 1 inch too high and outside of regulation.
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I just finished getting an elec/ tank to 39, having Toughness/all my armour sets slotted out, and I must say it felt very very underwhelming.
Low health
0 defence
Resistances that are nothing to be cheering about
A heal that has a long recharge with a middling to mediocre regen attached to it
Powersink which IMO should nuke the endurance of your enemy but instead leaves them at 20-25%, essentially making it useless unless there's more than 1 endurance drainer
It feels like it has a lot of nice tools but none of them really match up with real survivability. The heal is meh. The endurance drain won't work unless partnered with more of the same from someone else. The resistances are honestly just not good. Plus without defence you can expect to get debuffed heavily from everything in the game.
Some may like it. I bet if I put in 500+ million for sets I could cap smashing/lethal and it would feel an awful lot better. But the baseline isn't enough to work with, I'd rather stick with Inv/Willpower.
^my rant about my experience with ElA. -
Quote:Mine makes sense, a group with enough buffs to bring a brute to a tanker level doesn't require a tank.Originally Posted by New Dawn
Likewise by that logic; one could say to a defender, by the time a corrupter reaches offering the same kind of support a defender has, it is rather trivial anyway because you can have enough self sufficient sets in the team that you don't even need anyone defending.
Yours I have no clue about. "When a corrupter reaches offering the same point of support a defender has?" -
$8 may not be a lot, but the value of this is less than even $8. Do better next time if you want my money...
PS I paid for a name change for $10 and it was worth more than this! -
Quote:I just can't agree that one overpowered build justifies another, something to me is wrong with that step.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I I agree that your build above could become a monster with only slight investment. However, my problem is that something like Invuln could do the same, just the other way around, for slightly more investment. Granted, they wouldn't have as much DDR as the Shield user would, but if that is the only thing that is working for the Shield user, that might be a problem with DDR and the prevalence of Def debuffs more than the IO system.
DDR wasn't as much of a part of this game for a long time. Defense sets got a lot of that because there were so many Defense debuffs in the game, compared to Resistance debuffs. I think it was a huge mistake to give so many mobs -Def debuffs in the early game, which necessitated the high levels of DDR, which then led to the situation we're in now, where Defense sets can't build for more toughness as easily as Resistance sets, because they have DDR. They're basically being punished because of something they got to prevent them from being useless earlier in the game's lifetime.
I mean, at this point, I really do agree with you that adding better resistance sets isn't that easy considering all factors involved. However, my problem is more with the "why" that is than the "how." I think that Defense in general needs a good looking into, and that the Devs have basically dug their own grave on that issue, but they didn't do it all at once. They've been very slowly digging it for a long time now, and each shovel of dirt just made it tougher to correct. Now, if they try to do it, it's going to make a lot of people angry. But I think that it needs to be done.
Lower DDR on Defense sets. Remove a LOT of Def Debuffs from enemies. Then you can either lower Defense bonuses or make Resistance bonuses worth going for. But you can't do the latter without doing some of the former.
I do pretty much agree 100% with your entire DDR argument - it is far too prevalent, and low level sets are especially victimised by it. I am playing a /shields scrapper right now who has ~25% defence and even Freaks, who I never thought of as having defence debuffs, can nullify my defences fast with their guns and slicey blades.
However I can't really argue about what should be in an alternative state of the game where DDR wasn't prevalent. That's kind of a side issue, I can only say about what I feel now, which goes back to the first - just because something is overpowered, doesn't mean everything else should be bumped up to meet that standard. -
Quote:^ I updated my post above.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So DDR is the only thing that is balancing the current situation out? How much content is that actually balancing out right now? The ITF certainly has a lot of -Def in it, but how much difference is there in something like the Statesman TF, where -Def isn't as prevalent.
The ITF seems like it was almost specifically designed to even things out between native Defense sets and non-native defense sets. But does that mean to continue doing that, we need to keep creating mobs that debuff defense?
DDR is quite prevalent. Almost everything with a gun has some kind of automatic fire that debuffs defence, and likewise almost anything with a bladed weapon can too. Certainly your mileage will vary for every taskforce, but I suspect most people will agree that defence debuffs are relatively prolific, and resistance debuffs are relatively rare.
Regardless of this particular argument, I still think that once we've moved past the theory of what is right and wrong, that build right above is us not at all 'tricked out' and could be built into a monster if you could use sets for resistance. It would be so outside the scale of reasonability, and that is why I don't like the idea of having both these set bonuses available, as per my original point. -
Quote:Take all your defences, 3 slot them. Take Weave and Combat Jumping. Get both 3% IOs. Just a tiny bit over 45% defence, nothing to it, no sets. Originally I wasn't going to post it because I felt it trivial to do so, but you can find it below.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Can I see this build? It's not that I don't trust you, I just would like to see it.
I see it just as bad as resistance-heavy sets that can get a huge amount of Defense, a self-heal, debuffs, etc. Stacking more and more defenses can be a problem. I just don't understand why resistance-based sets should get to do it, but defense-based sets don't.
Resistance heavy sets getting defence isn't as good as defence sets getting resistance. Resistance sets don't have DDR so their defence is quite meaningless against enemies that debuff it. I know from having my Willpower tank in ITFs - even with the small amount of DDR that she has, her defence melts almost instantly.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(3), DefBuff-I(3), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(7)
Level 1: Beheader -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(7), DefBuff-I(9), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 4: True Grit -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Active Defense -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(13)
Level 14: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(15), ResDam-I(15), EndRdx-I(17), GA-3defTpProc(17), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(19)
Level 16: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(21), EndRdx-I(23)
Level 22: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Whirling Axe -- Empty(A)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 38: Gash -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Cleave -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Pendulum -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Tactics -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run -
Quote:I would strongly advise *against* +regen, as the rewards are minimal. My tank with just over 3200 hp gains little more than 1hp/sec from the various regen set bonuses. Considering everything else (capped defences, regen of 100hp/sec with 1 enemy nearby anyway), this is essentially meaningless. +regen as side benefits; sure. But as a focus, please don't, you'll really waste your time.Originally Posted by JAXMAN
Smashing and lethal defense is typically what I aim for, followed by plus regen. Several of those bonuses are tired to plus hitpoints. I look at the powers I want and what sets are available to them.
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I just did up a Shield tanker as a thought; with the only set bonuses as the 3% defence IOs you can cap all defence positions. You also have 46.5% smashing/lethal resistance. So you have every slot bar 2 to shore up that. It would be absolutely effortless to have capped defences, DDR through the roof, and capped S/L resistance, on a set that is meant to sacrifice survivability for damage.
I think you could find similar silliness through sets like /SR, who can cap defence relatively easily, and with toughness, the scaling resistances and set +resistances, could be tanks in their own right. -
I have a 50 Willpower/War Mace but the same IOs are going to be what you want for a Brute.
Key bonuses:
+hit points (takes longer for you to die, improves your regen)
+defence (especially smashing/lethal, although all are great)
Others that are nice:
+recharge (faster attacks = better active mitigation and damage)
Some of the sets to look out for are Luck of the Gambler which has a few nice bonuses, Numinas which has lots of +hit points, and Kinetic Combat which covers a few bases too. For your AOE, 3 slotting Eradication gives a significant amount of energy defence which goes nice with Heightened Senses from willpower. For armour I'd look at either Aegis (3 slots gives a lot of fire defence) or 4 slotting Reactive Armour (for a good mix of all defences).
I'm sure someone will post a whole build for you. -
Quote:You still face the problem where defence is gained through multiple channels and creating new choices creates powercreep. Plus IMO there's enough sets that some archetypes are going to be able to cap positional defence rather than damage specific defence and so kinetic combat isn't the answer to everything...Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Right, but my point is this: if you find out how most people are gaining Defense now, and only use similar sets to put resistance in, you make the player have to choose between Resistance and Defense.
Defense-based sets will be able to gain Resistance in the same way that Resistance-based sets can now gain Defense. Other ATs will have to choose between going Defense or Resistance, since they will be unlikely to be able to get both, if you do it right.
Further there are situations where some archetypes/powersets can nearly approach one or both of the caps. Take Willpower on a tank, for example. I suspect it'd be possible to cap all defence types and also smashing/lethal resistance. In their instance, closing the 'popular' channel might not mean anything at all, and they are free now to do both defence types.
Lastly, once again, I'd like to point out that going from 70% resistance (attainable by every tank) to 90% resistance is reducing your damage to 1/3 of what it was before, would be relatively easy to do if there were 5% resistance sets, plus would not face the same issue of prolific defence debuffs (-res is relatively rare), *plus* still be able to work on defence on top of that... -
Quote:It will be complicated to do so; some archetypes can soft cap positional defences relatively easily and some can do damage-specific instead. By making it a melee set you still have plenty of other ways of getting lots of defence.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So then just put them in similar sets. That way, you can't build for both realistically, and get high values for each.
For instance, Kinetic Combat provides great S/L Defense. Make another melee set like it that provides 5% S/L Resistance as the only difference. Unless you have 10 melee attacks that you can spend slots on, you won't be able to max out both. Most builds that I've seen on these boards have maybe 6-7 attacks, so you could get 12.5% Defense, and 10% Resistance, but that's generally not too bad. And it would allow for Defense-based builds to slot more for resistance to put them more on par with current Resistance-based sets that can still soft-cap Defense.
Regardless of the method you chose, creating additional avenues will further boost players, because more choice = more power.
I like having defence the way it is. You can soft cap but unless you are a class with inbuilt defence, you will suffer the full effects of defence debuffs. Resistance is a whole different ballgame... -
Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
And how is this any different from the current situation with Defense-based sets? Especially when those allow people to soft-cap to various damage types even when they start with next to nothing?This from the same threadQuote:Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
My disagreement is in having both available.
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Quote:What if they aren't doing smashing/lethal damage but negative energy damage?Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Well, there's the argument that if the ghost can turn solid enough to hurt you, you can hurt it back. I recall an amusing scene where the two main characters in the fantasy novel Beyond the Blue Moon used that principle to beat up a ghost.
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Quote:The issue is not so much in seeing someone go from 20 -> 50% or something like that, but to see everyone who is at ~70% go to 90%, which represents taking only 1/3 of the damage now.Originally Posted by Tormentoso
Another way to keep resistances bonuses under control is with the rule of 5. Keep the values really limited.
If the only available bonuses for S/L resistance is 2%, 3%, and 5% (to pull random numbers), the maximum anyone can put together is 50% resistance to Smash/Lethal. And in order to do that, he'd have to have 15 powers slotted for these bonuses, leaving little room for other elements.
20% is just 4 IO sets of 5% and that is really, really easy. The unique advantages of sets like Invulnerability than can cap without SOs is diluted very quickly when everyone else can do the same...