British Battler

Have you thought about dropping barrage all together, and taking Dull Pain instead, with hasten up your attacks will be cycling fast enough anyway to notice.

Innigo, in my opinion a brutes role is to go in and dish the smackdown on whoever they meet and be able to stand up to as much punishment as they can at the same time. All brute builds in there own way have the ability to do this in differant ways.

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Just a question then, are you now saying the Stone Armour set is just as good as the rest of the armours and admitting that they are all as good as each other to play, if you are I think you are finally getting the point of ALL the powersets being good to play, and all having a role in the game, which is what I believe a lot of people have been getting at, it's just that the Granite power seems to have been the cruicible for this.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm not saying they're all as good, to be that, they'd have to be identical. I'm saying that while stone armor has it's sides, it is not as good in accomplishing the primary role of the brute than other secondaries in most situations.

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I think what you're trying to say is that you can't admit that you are wrong and having no real experiance of playing a powerset you have been going off the descriptions in the text, rather than having first had experiance. You twister you.

BTW LOL

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BTW, do you have or ever have had a Granite Brute or Tank so we know where your experiance is coming from on this subject.

[/ QUOTE ]I have L40 tank and L27 brute, although neither are stone armor. I have however teamed with loads of stone tanks (Including some of the first ones to hit L50 in the EU), and some stone brutes. I did also try a L40 elec/stone brute for a while during the RV test event.

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So not much actual experiance of playing them then, an instant lvl 40 would not give you the feel of them growing over time, so you really have no experiance par se to base your judgements on, whilst many of us who are replying to this play them, mines up to lvl 45 now on the brute, only 13 on the tank, and I also have a lvl 29 EM/EA brute and have player others, but the highest is only lvl 16 on them, so not to much experiance on them, so I know the way they play to another brute or tank, as I have other tanks as well, still not to high, but one with each armour nontheless.

Full knowledge is gained from experiance of playing something properly, I would never tell someone that a dominator set or corruptor set was gimped without first trying it out properly for example, by the same token I woul;d probably not even use the word gimped, rather, it didn't really work for me, but I know it worked for the one I saw in action in my last team.

You on the otherhand, and I hope there's nothing against the rules for stating this, seem to have set ideas about what is gimped and whats not.

[/ QUOTE ]I used the word gimp maybe a bit too harshly, It was meant as a semi-joke. I agree that stone armor is a decent set, and that granite can be good, but I also say that there are very few situations in which a granite will do the primary job of the brute AT better than some other secondary, and many in which it will do worse.

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Just a question then, are you now saying the Stone Armour set is just as good as the rest of the armours and admitting that they are all as good as each other to play, if you are I think you are finally getting the point of ALL the powersets being good to play, and all having a role in the game, which is what I believe a lot of people have been getting at, it's just that the Granite power seems to have been the cruicible for this.

Arachnobot Blaster,

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Also in team missions your generally moving onto that next mob whilst the rest of the team take time to recuperate because they need to heal more due to them taking more damage, your stamina recovers enroute and you start to SMASH all over again.

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omg i hope i can avoid that in teams with my brute (team taking damage could mean mine will probably be dead) or brutes havent been able to be that effective with their taunt and auras

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LOL, just a general point m8, nothing specific there really, just had lastman standing syndrome a few times by teammates accidentally aggroing those two othe mobs above what were handling at the time, and not being able to gether the 2 extra full mobs aggro fast enough can result in a teamwhipe at times, we've probably all being in that situation, BUT, my Granite Brute was able to take the excess damage it was taking due to this and eventually worked its way through the mobs by himself. Only happened twice, and apologies from the offending alt were forthcoming, was close though even in granite lol.

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BTW, do you have or ever have had a Granite Brute or Tank so we know where your experiance is coming from on this subject.

[/ QUOTE ]I have L40 tank and L27 brute, although neither are stone armor. I have however teamed with loads of stone tanks (Including some of the first ones to hit L50 in the EU), and some stone brutes. I did also try a L40 elec/stone brute for a while during the RV test event.

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So not much actual experiance of playing them then, an instant lvl 40 would not give you the feel of them growing over time, so you really have no experiance par se to base your judgements on, whilst many of us who are replying to this play them, mines up to lvl 45 now on the brute, only 13 on the tank, and I also have a lvl 29 EM/EA brute and have player others, but the highest is only lvl 16 on them, so not to much experiance on them, so I know the way they play to another brute or tank, as I have other tanks as well, still not to high, but one with each armour nontheless.

Full knowledge is gained from experiance of playing something properly, I would never tell someone that a dominator set or corruptor set was gimped without first trying it out properly for example, by the same token I woul;d probably not even use the word gimped, rather, it didn't really work for me, but I know it worked for the one I saw in action in my last team.

You on the otherhand, and I hope there's nothing against the rules for stating this, seem to have set ideas about what is gimped and whats not.

You could in fact use the "teh powaset tis gimped" statment on all of the sets if you want to go down that route:

eg "don't take a /INV m8, tis GIMPED in the extreme, u get hit more often m8, and you'll get whacked ta bits by everthing except S/L" yet I see plenty around

"don't take /FIRE m8, it's totally naff"

"don't take a /DARK m8, the res is naff and you'll be kb'd ta bits"

Just a few examples of off the wall coments that COULD be used but generally aren't.

Anyway, no offence is meant by any of this, all powersets have their downsides and benfits, it's how you play them that makes them differant.

Most internal maps tend to be small and moving from mob to mob does not take that much time, or you can survive the attacks because of the granite and gather up 2 or 3 mobs at a time, especially solo, and kill them all at once with your aoe doom. By this I mean Mud pots, tremor and now Disruptor blast, of course always followed by taunt lol. Some of the minions are dead from the aoes before i have even landed a direct hit on them from a ST attack using this method, and of course negates the moving from mob to mob bit because you a) survive all the damage coming in and b) get through the mission quicker.

Also in team missions your generally moving onto that next mob whilst the rest of the team take time to recuperate because they need to heal more due to them taking more damage, your stamina recovers enroute and you start to SMASH all over again.

BTW, do you have or ever have had a Granite Brute or Tank so we know where your experiance is coming from on this subject.

Yes I agree with Sinergy, my brute has loadsa attacks, brawl, boxing, stonefists, stone mallet, heavy mallet, tremor, seismic smash, fault(if it's included in attacks that is), Mace Blast and Disruptor Blast. Of course taunts in there as well, and Mud Pots going off all the time. Not to shabby really.

Are you still not willing to give this one up, heck, thats dedication to the point of madness.

Anyone who just looks at the negative sides of anything is never going to see the good in anything.

We are trying to point out the positive sides to a powerset to people here, whilst explaining how to aleviate the negative sides that come with it, and all some people cam say is its gimped, shouldn't be a powerset for a particular AT etc.

As a brute it works well, fury builds up nicely due to the greater amount of incoming they can recieve, yes with 2 recharges slotted yout back to your standard attack speeds, and the -30% damage with fury going doesn't really add up to much, your speed is still ok, and heck on some of those cave missions i prefer to go slower, lol, and still you only have negative things to say.

And its -65% rech, the -70% is in speed m8. And the none granite brute may attack that few seconds faster, but he still has incomming to mitigate at the same time. Activation times for the powers are the same, so attack chains still go off at the same speed, you just have your powers available sooner, as with hasten, and the amount of attacks from the initial alpha won't change, the Granites ability lies in the ability to take that alpha better than any others and more often, turning it into fury by staying on his feet and smashing them to bits.

So, it's never really slowed my fury generation one bit, go on MaX, try it and you'll see. And btw, no tp on my brute, it is a power I just don't like the end cost for the distance is to high really, tryed it once and hated it, personal taste really on travel powers. I will try it again, but like Dark Regeneration in the Dark Armour set I think the end cost is toooo High.

I've got a Stone/Stone as well and the Mace scales for size, so when you granite it gets BIGGER, lol, and looks cool.

Most armours are in fact 0.13 except dark's which are 0.104 for some reason. Thats according to the free prima download.

I have a lvl 28 EM/EA, and the basic def of 16.5 from your shield against S/L is quite nice, with slotting, combat jumpig and your hide you can reduce even level mobs to a 1 in 5 chance of hitting you ie around 30% Def in total, not too shabby really plus you get a cool end drain power, and conserve power which means no stamina needed, so you can choose the PvP route then of Stealth and Grant Invis, or the PvE route of Aid Other or Stimulant and Aid Self, whatever you fance. It's allowed me to take All of my primarys except stun, so nice attack chain so in groups you can't half dish it out also.

Yes the disorient is fun, i sometime open on a boss with Total Focus because of this fact and the have in fact sometimes not even got off an attack due to being disoriented the whole time during a fight because off all the other attacks must at somepoint do their disorient bit as well.

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Granite can dish out decent damage, I do agree on that. However, a brute in granite will never be as fast and damaging than a brute outside of it.

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But a brute in Granite can kill those mobs that another brute would have been floored by, it takes a few more mins than the none granite brute, but the granite brute has the advantage he will still be standing after 3 mins rather than lying on the floor of running screaming "I'M ABOUT TO CRASH" lol.

Their greater staying power enables them to actually kill more and keep their fury high, and remember the 30% comes off the % of fury as well so say for example you have 250% due to fury on a EM non granite you would then have 220% on a Granite. Say your base damage is 50 this would give 175 Damage on the non granite and 160 Damage on a Granite, whereas the damage taken is as we know much less on a granite than a non granite on most types of damage.

So there we have it, I know 50 damage is just given as an example, but you can see the differance is just 15 points, and the Granite can have mudpots running as well so this will take care of that differance, althogh loadsa armours have an aura to, so this could be explained and excussed away again.

The way I see it not much in it really, fury maintained due to survivability, -recharge on a brute negated because we dont have to slot damage so can slot end reds and recharges, -70% run speed, well all stone armours should take swift and 3 slot it, this helps negate that, and because of granite you can root when in combat having gathered the mobs, and above all a granite tank only needs to run at a minimum 1 toggle, the granite, to survive, same on a brute, and the end cost is 0.13, add in rooted 0.13 again, mudpots is the biggy at 1.56 I think, and tough on a brute at 0.2. Put some end reds in mudpots, rooted and tough and away you go.

Never really had an end problem on mine except in really extended fights, but these usually happen in team situations, and against heros and AV's, and everyone usually has the problems then, not just me, excepting if we've go a /kin around then it's just amazing for ALL.

I'll leave you with this though, for a brute to keep ding his Bruting you have to be able to survive incoming damage as well as dish it out, take less = survive longer = dish out more damage.

And have you seen one in action macmoo?

I take it you haven't seen my brute in action in granite armour then.

He's always first in taunting and smashing his way about, the -30% to damage is quickly overcome by fury and having the typical brute slotting on all attacks ie.2 acc,2 end disc and 2 recharge means his attack chain is ok, and he can do things other brutes can't do.

Admit it MaX, there's nothing personal here, but you must of had a bad experiance with one at some time m8, and now see it as not good for you.

Anyone who has mished with my Brute Hammerok on Defiant will tell you what he's like, and unlike tankers Granite brutes still dish out loadsa damage.

Soloing a brute in granite is fun also, you can gather up 3 mobs and take them all at the same time, mudpots, tremor and now disruptor blast firing off all the time, fill in your other melee attacks as you can, firing off the aoe's as there available, and soon 15 squishy messes and loadsa rocks on the floor.

The first 31/37 lvls can be a pain for a stone armour, but they have good alround defences, and when granite comes along it make you smile. Slotted 3 res and 3 def, along with stoneskin slotted 3 res, and a brute should also get Tough and slot it 1 end disc and 3 res, and your away.

So have fun all and see you all on for another round of smashin later

Why don't you try it m8, and see if it works, I'm doing it on my EM/EA brute and slotting it 1 int,3 heal and 2 recharge. Getting it at 30, currently lvl 29, but the aid other has saved a few squishys already lol

Got Black Scorpion on my Brute, and you do have to draw the mace, but I don't really notice it much.

The first power you will probably get is the shields, then go for the others.

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Assuming the def buff is 13.6%

8 Thug MM's = 16 Enforcers
16*13.6 = 217.6% Defence for the pets. Unslotted!

That's why I don't trust those numbers.

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Would be nice though lol

And Energy Drain on a/EA brute is nice also, and you get it earlier as well, lvl 28

And Def seems to work better these days as well

Stone also comes with fault, and SS has hand clap, two nice little disorient powers.

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Granite, overpowered? Bah, granite is, and will always be gimped, unless they remove all the penalties.

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Somehow from all the replies about Granite armour I've seen from u MaX I get the ideal that you don't have anything good to say about this set then, you are replying identically to questions about Stone in the Brute section.

lol

Nope, the Minerals Armour you can get at lvl 35 gives you DEF against Psi.

Then you'll have even less end for a while it has a HUGE end cost LOL