Some armours take more eps then others. Specialy if you are a high toggle running (fire tanker) i would prefer going 2EndReds in the armors. Tough and acrobatics are high-end users, these need 2 end-reds for sure.
Check Sharksilvers CoH-builder for the exact numbers of the shields, i do know Mudpots is a really end-eater.
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End reducers in armours generally only make a little bit of difference. Most tanker armours are about 0.2 end per second. Inv ones are more expensive and the damage auras are more expensive too.
So I would say unless you have already six slotted your attacks, slotting armours is less effective. A slot in an attack will generally make more difference to your endurance than slotting an armour.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
The attacks are kinda easy to measure as you can actually see the usage , think i go without in armours.
ty for help guys.
Most armours are in fact 0.13 except dark's which are 0.104 for some reason. Thats according to the free prima download.
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Most armours are in fact 0.13 except dark's which are 0.104 for some reason. Thats according to the free prima download.
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Read what the prima guide says then stand still with each armour on in turn with no endurance slotted and read how much your endurance bar varies, best done with a respec build on test server with no fitness pool. I was shocked at reading my invulns as they didnt seem to tally up so maybe they have a different way of measuring i dont know. But focused accuracy was dropping my endurance 3 points between ticks, temp invuln + unyielding + invincible added upto a 3 point drop between ticks altogether and i think unyielding looked like it dropped less end between ticks than invincible.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Most armours are in fact 0.13 except dark's which are 0.104 for some reason. Thats according to the free prima download.
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If I remember correctly the Prima guide doesn't give units.
It says it costs 0.13 end. How often? I think it is for a half second tick rate, which would be 0.26 end per second.
However a single unenhanced attack when used constantly uses an average of just under 1 endurance per second as they have a end cost and recharge of about the same value.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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However a single unenhanced attack when used constantly uses an average of just under 1 endurance per second as they have a end cost and recharge of about the same value.
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That sounds to me like the endurance per second of an auto'd attack.
Each attack has an endurance cost and immediately after one attack you use another and then another meanwhile the first attack has recharged.
For me the EPS of the attack chain matters most and thats total action time of attack chain/total endurance cost of all attacks used.
By the end of the attack chain you could be only waiting for one attack to be recharged and have a full endurance bar whilst it is recharging. So i dont include recharge. My ability to last in a long fight duration and fighting comes from the overall endurance per second cost of the attack chain plus toggles compared to end recovery per second from full endurance.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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However a single unenhanced attack when used constantly uses an average of just under 1 endurance per second as they have a end cost and recharge of about the same value.
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That sounds to me like the endurance per second of an auto'd attack.
Each attack has an endurance cost and immediately after one attack you use another and then another meanwhile the first attack has recharged.
For me the EPS of the attack chain matters most and thats total action time of attack chain/total endurance cost of all attacks used.
By the end of the attack chain you could be only waiting for one attack to be recharged and have a full endurance bar whilst it is recharging. So i dont include recharge. My ability to last in a long fight duration and fighting comes from the overall endurance per second cost of the attack chain plus toggles compared to end recovery per second from full endurance.
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We've had this conversation before.
Unless you actually calculate your attack chain in great detail the rough eps of your attack chain is around 1xnumber of attacks, modified by slotting of recharges and end reducers.
However I don't really want to repeat the conversation as the only point is that attacks cost more than toggles, so an end red in an attack is more effective than in a toggle.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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We've had this conversation before.
Unless you actually calculate your attack chain in great detail the rough eps of your attack chain is around 1xnumber of attacks, modified by slotting of recharges and end reducers.
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My attack chain no breaks between attacks (each attack apart from brawl has an endurance reduction enhancement).
Footstomp, action 2.1, cost 13.55
Knockout blow, action 2.23, cost 13.55
Haymaker, action 1.5, cost 6.24
Punch, action 1.2, cost 3.81
Jab, action 1.07, cost 2.59
Brawl, as a filler action 1.1 cost 4.34
Jab, action 1.07, cost 2.59
Punch, action 1.2, cost 3.81
Haymaker, action 1.5, cost 6.24
Footstomp, action 2.1, cost 13.55
Knockout blow, action 2.23, cost 13.55
total action time = time for attack chain = 17.3 seconds
total endurance cost for attack chain = 83.82
83.82endurance / 41.5seconds = 4.78 endurance per second
With no endurance slots in attacks the eps would be higher and as it is its higher than toggles already. Recharges dont do anything apart from recharging your attacks in an attack chain. If your waiting for an attack to recharge your fight duration is extended and your eps is lowered however in my attack chain i dont wait for any attack to recharge and the endurance cost of each attack is fixed.
My attack chain is about done in those seconds perhaps plus one or two secs and my endurance is less than figured due to base end recovery and stamina with which i gain 2.48 eps. So thats about half my endurance back so my endurance per second is lessened again to 2.30 eps but then i have my toggles to account (for which add to almost 1 eps apparently). So at the end of my attack chain with toggles on i should be left with 2.3 + 1 eps * 17.3 secs which should leave me with 55 endpoints in theory and live in game my endurance reads 57 endpoints which is close enough for me.
and this is to explain to any reader how i do it which looks ok to me.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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total action time = time for attack chain = 17.3 seconds
total endurance cost for attack chain = 83.82
83.82endurance / 41.5seconds = 4.78 endurance per second
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I think you made a typo here. Shouldn't it be 17.3 seconds not 41.5.
That seems like more detail than I would go into, mainly because there are few toons I have who have a fixed attack chain.
You use 6 attacks. All slotted for 1 end red, using my rough approximation I get 6/1.33 = 4.58 end per second. About the same value.
Either way we probably both agree that attacks use more endurance than toggles.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Yeah where did that typo come from? *looks at other calculator*.
This is using 6 attacks
Footstomp, action 2.1, cost 13.55
Knockout blow, action 2.23, cost 13.55
Haymaker, action 1.5, cost 6.24
Punch, action 1.2, cost 3.81
Jab, action 1.07, cost 2.59
Brawl, as a filler action 1.1 cost 3.25 (if slotted for end just so they are all equally slotted)
total action time = 9.2 seconds
total endurance = 42.99
endurance/time = 42.99/9.2 = 4.67
4.67 - 1.667 base end recovery = 3 eps pre stamina
3 eps - 0.819 eps recovery = 2.181 eps
And thats why i look at attacks costing about 2 eps each with an endurance slot in each attack and stamina and thats all i am trying to get over. I do on any toon slot for endurance in my attacks before toggles. I have people going "no fitness?" at my 2 brutes, a stalker, 2 defenders, a tank, a blaster, a dominater and obviously my mms. You have people playing a MA/SR, who dont slot endurances in attacks but instead 3 slot the super reflex toggles because its the super reflex side thats supposed to be heavy or feel heavy for me theyve gone the wrong way and sr being end heavy is a myth.
I am not talking directly to you unthing btw i am just showing why i think some attacks are more important to slot for endurance first than bothering with toggles. With a regen or an /elec or /energy blaster/brute i could leave out endurance slots in favour of accuracies and recharges easily.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Slotting End reducs in attacks sounds reasonable enough. It's probably the best way to go in an ideal team situation.
Doesn't it lower your DPS though? I personally always slot 2 acc 3 dam 1 recharge in almost every attack. Same on my Tank, as I do feel that the attacks take long enough to recharge already, even with hasten. I know Tanks shouldn't be doing much damage anyway, as their are other, more specialized AT's for that, but I still enjoy dishing out a fair bit of damage myself every once in a while.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter for me, as I have Energy Absorption.
I know this is a tank thread but on my Da Scrapper ive just put another end reduction in each of my shileds.
I have noticed a massive difrence in the time i can keep going before i need to hit dark consumption.
So for me I would slot the armours.
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I know this is a tank thread but on my Da Scrapper ive just put another end reduction in each of my shileds.
I have noticed a massive difrence in the time i can keep going before i need to hit dark consumption.
So for me I would slot the armours.
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on my dm/da i slotted attacks first and then shields but shields sooner than normal because she hasnt got the fitness pool. im also having to play as economically on endurance as i can (lot more easier solo) to gain the most out of my multi hitting attacks.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Slotting End reducs in attacks sounds reasonable enough. It's probably the best way to go in an ideal team situation.
Doesn't it lower your DPS though? I personally always slot 2 acc 3 dam 1 recharge in almost every attack. Same on my Tank, as I do feel that the attacks take long enough to recharge already, even with hasten. I know Tanks shouldn't be doing much damage anyway, as their are other, more specialized AT's for that, but I still enjoy dishing out a fair bit of damage myself every once in a while.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter for me, as I have Energy Absorption.
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You do have to balance your attack set with your defense set and how many attacks you have its always a kill or be killed situation. On a regen id be 2 acc 3 dam 1 rechg and on a sr i am 2 acc 3 dam 1 end. with an sr i dont get an endurance buff like quick recovery but i do get a recharge buff from quickness. All we are saying is the attack chain is more end hungry than anything else. You only have to look at your endurance when your not fighting and compare it to your endurance when you do fight to see it.
Attack a stonetanker in granite with your attack chain with no toggles running in the arena whilst he doesnt hit back and compare the endurance loss to standing next to him not attacking with toggles running.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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On a regen id be 2 acc 3 dam 1 rechg and on a sr i am 2 acc 3 dam 1 end. with an sr i dont get an endurance buff like quick recovery but i do get a recharge buff from quickness. All we are saying is the attack chain is more end hungry than anything else. You only have to look at your endurance when your not fighting and compare it to your endurance when you do fight to see it.
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Oh I agree that the attack chain is the main problem with end drain, I just feel that I'd rather slot and end red in a shield than exchanging the recharges in my attacks for an end reduction. Even with hasten and quikness on my SR, it's unlikely that I would slot end reducs in the attacks, simply because I want them to be back up ASAP.
I will give it a try tough and see how it works. Not that I have that many end problems with it, I just usually ***** Elude [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].
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Doesn't it lower your DPS though? I personally always slot 2 acc 3 dam 1 recharge in almost every attack.
[/ QUOTE ]If you slot 2 acc, yes. If you slot only one, not really.
The thing is you only get to use one attack of at a time so having 3 to chose from can be a bad thing unless -recharged but compensating for that can be a bad thing if your sapped or low on endurance. Not having powers like energy absorption, consume or rooted for res to end drain i have taken conserve energy.
I have basically 1 acc 1 end 3 dam and maybe another acc if a hold (duration dependent) or a rechg if an aoe, i have foc acc which reduces end to offer me more acc and +per but its when i want it its "not compulsory to run" or rage for tohit and +dam "if i want it", that again isnt always a good idea to always run and again conserve energy for unforeseen end losses.
Its a good idea to try to look at the "overall build" before deciding on optimal slotting. I am just stating the attack chain eats end the most.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
now that i'm back, i wanna get Bugsy though his free respec.
does any one slot for end redux in armours ?
i normally put 1 end redux in the armours i leave on and none in the 1s i use ocassionally.
if any ones got the figures for this it would be handy as i'm also at lvl 33 with Cracked Mac Moo my no granite build stoney