BigNord

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It's cool to see old pvpers come back for free reactivation weekends, but it's not like they could handle pvp these days.

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LOL, i'm sure the people who dominated PVP a year ago could somehow manage to be competitive today, the game isnt that complicated. In the end it still boils down to practice,team building and dedication. If you can do those it doesnt matter what game your playing, your gonna do ok.

It took us about 4 months of 3-4 hours a night of practice..this was 6 or 7 days a week as well.

Honestly i think Vengence only really played a part in 2 or 3 matches we ever played. Most of the battles we played during our peak we would jump out to huge leads right from the start..then we would suffer a death or two..get a vengence off and that would lead to the steamroll effect.

But most matches we played in we would be up 10 or 12 kills before we even had a death so to think that we would be behind then get off vengence and run of 30 kills is just silly.

Vengence more then anything was a knockout type punch that closed the show and if it ultimatly made the difference in more then a couple games i would be pretty surprised.

It wasnt till after we left that teams went really nuts with Vengence..hell i dont think we ever topped 100 kills in a match..but once we were gone it happend a few times..maybe it was better competition or maybe we just werent using it as much as everybody likes to think we were.

I dont think i have the stomach to install and download the 300 years worth of patches i missed.

PVP rules..that is all

Wow...reading that thread brought back some serious memories.

I'll add my 2 cents.

Pretty much when issue 4 released i formed Lions Den and did my best to round up every good PVP'er on Victory.

Our Roster early on was pretty sick if you look at what some of the players did in the game down the road.

Rift ( playing my Claws/Dark..LOL)
Rock Mason - Stone tank
Krole - His stormie
Electric Heroine - Her elec Blaster
Patient V
Demon Sorcerer
John Travoltage
Pyrus
Chilldom
Cuddles
Cuch ( AKA Mul)
Alesh
Mikey and Lori

That was the core group who more or less started Lions Den..if i forgot anybody i'm sorry.

It was at this time that i developed alot of the Tournament and side formats i became known for like the Lethal Lottery, The Super 32 and the Iron Man Tournament. I was holding tournaments every single weekend for almost a year,during this time the PVP on Victory really started to grow alot..even non PVP'ers would come and play in the Tournaments because i always did my best to balance the rules to favor the casual players a bit.

The big highlights i remember from our early days were our first match vs Sitting Ducks which was probably the purest PVP match ever played ..both teams basically brought their 50's and we just went at it..we were so happy we won. And i remember thinking that we could bang with anybody.

Lions Den vs Tribute - Or as this came to be known " Holy Crap we suck"..Tribute was so damn far ahead of the Curve..they were the Babe Ruth's of PVP, they were Jim Brown in the 60's..they were trully the pioneers of Team PVP. I think they beat us by like 4500 kills. I remember thinking that they somehow got like 20 extra people into the match because thats how it seemed at the time..it was without a doubt a big eye opener.

During this time Lions Den played a few more matches against teams Like Hell Raisers and the Freaks. To put it mildly we were very good or that well organized at the time..but we were at least competitive with the non Tribute groups.

Then came our split with Penance which really hurt us, we lost most of our best players..and to be honest i was proud to see Penance smash their way through the ranks because i felt like in some small way i was at least partly responsible for them coming together.

It was at this time when Lions Den got smashed vs the Freaks in the Legendary 100-3 match that ultimatly turned us onto our path of success.

I specifically remember Triox coming to Lions Den within like 2 days of that match happening..we got smashed to bits and he stuck around, i always appreciated that.

We slowly started recruiting players and we picked up Sing,Manny,Shurl and Pan. It was at this time that we really went crazy with practicing.

We would practice 3-4 hours a night every single night..i pretty much ignored my now ex-girlfriend during this time as i'm sure most of our members did. This went on for months..we really enjoyed practice.

Our first match of the new Era was against LOTD..i remember it being a really tough match..they were good players and even though they were on an all Villian team they played us extremely tough. I believe we won 2-0 and i remember players like Kyle saying " If Lions Den beat them on Villians then Villains are worthless"

I tell ya i never hated anybody in a game more then i hated Kyle..if anybody ever wants to know what drove me to practice like it was the coolest thing on earth it was because i wanted to beat the snot out of Kyle and the Freaks more then i wanted sex with my girlfriend at the time...if that helps put it in perspective.

We eventually went on to Beat all the groups of that era..Freaks,HVND,JAL,Sitting Ducks, ABH, and so on.

I know alot of people like to try to take something away from us because we were the first group to really practice Vengence stacking but i dont think that was a big factor in our success. People really dont understand how much we used to practice and just how good alot of our members were.

In the End we left for WoW not only because we had become somewhat bored with this game but just because we needed something new in general.

I really appreciate just how good the other groups were and its cool to see them talk about their time at the top of the Food Chain. Each of the big groups that are on the COX Mount Rushmore of PVP could claim they were arguably the best group ever and i really wouldnt complain because they each brought something different to the table or innovated something that other groups copied.

My hats off to all the old school PVP'ers and groups..i had alot of fun while we were here.

The Lions Den Salutes all of you.

"This Game has way to many subscribers"

Not just like it..I love it.

From all the members of the Lions Den i would like to extend our condolences. He was a good competitor and he will be missed.

When you look at the Current Evolution of PVP you see how things have changed, its really remarkable and a testament to the PVP community as a whole.

Just look back say a year ago..the Three best teams were Penance, Freaks and HVND, none of them used Vengence and all 3 really used different strategies to get to the top..Penance used an almost pure Run-n-gun style team, Freaks beat that team with a Tank disruption team and HVND beat 1 with a turtle and the other with a run and gun..so they kind of used both.

Then as PVP progressed Lions Den rose up with the Obi-Wan Kenobi Lineup ( if you strike us down..we become more powerfull then you can ever imagine) the HVND and Freaks became almost Pure Run and Gun.

And now as PVP groups shrink down to where they can only manage 8 v 8 for whatever reasons you see the Storm teams like ABH and HVND used recently.

I would also like to point out that ABH who practiced with us alot right before we left started getting really smart and knowing that as soon as they killed one of us the rest would be coming would wait at the body and try to get a nuke off on us before we could Vengence.

We had to start playing against the Anti-Vengence and our Rads started using Fallout to counter that.

I think down the road you will see Bubblers come back because they can disrupt a vengence from going off just by standing near the dead body.

Anyway good stuff and although we are gone its good to see how we have influenced the future of PVP in this game.

Let me just Say that Sing is a great great player and when he speaks about PVP we all would listen because he earned our respect through his hard work.

The fact that he wrote this guide for the rest of the community speaks volumes about him because alot of people would have just sat on this info.

When Sing came to the Den he was willing to do anything he had to in order for the Team to win..sometimes he emp'd, sometimes he Rad'd for us but when we finally got him on his blaster is when the Den became extremely tough to beat.

A little funny story about Sing in the Lions Den. Mikey who was one of our targeters used to flip out because Sing wasnt always on Target and i had to explain to him that Sing was like our version of Lawrence Taylor for the Giants..he was so good and was such a playmaker that sometimes you had to just let him make plays and shrug it off.

I've seen him do some amazing things in PVP games where he was caged 80% of the match.

Energy Aura..your right about only 1 thing in your post...the Devs dont know how to balance anything..let alone this game.

Outside of that your head is in the clouds.

Ok first i think you need to Clarify your statements.

It seems like you are talking of strictly the highest levels of Team PVP..in this case Test level team PVP. In that form of PVP there is little room for variations because when the goal is to win you need to have certain builds around like Emps/Kins/Blaster and so on.

However its still not entirely true..the larger a match gets the more room for variations there are..in the Lions Den we call these toons "X-Factor" toons...they are toons that can change the playing field and tip it to your favor if the other team isnt prepared for it. A good example would be a Trick Arrow Defender. In an 8 on 8 or smaller a Trick Arrow defender really doesnt cut the mustard because with less people involved there is less room for error.

However when you expand the number of players to 12 v 12, 14 v 14 etc there becomes alot more room to add X-factor toons to the mix..tanks, scrappers, stormies, bubblers, trick arrow..grav..everything becomes an option because they can bring more to the table that your opponent needs to deal with..and the right toon against the right team can = victory.

I'm not saying that PVP in this game is balanced correctly because obviously its not..however the larger a match gets you will notice how much more balance there is.

Just something you should consider when you post next.

Victory Representing..i'm very proud of our server,at one point less then 20 total PVP'ers..now groups upon groups.

I screwed up the last one but hopefully this one will stick for all of us to be able to use. I think this is a good way for all of us cross server to communicate with each other in order to set up Cross Server events or even Events on your own home Servers.

Please fill out your Responses with as much info as you wish but please try to keep it from a peen waving contest..we have an entire rest of the forum for that.

Name- Lions Den/Pandemic
Server- Victory/Freedom
Faction- Heroes/Villians
Size- Medium 30ish Members
Recruiting- By invite only at the moment
Contacts- @Rift @Guber @ Mikey Tyse @Vulker @Cuddles Or you can Contact us at the Link in my Sig here
PVP Preference- Arena , Zone, Base Raids..we do it all.

History- The Lions Den is Victory's first ever PVP Group and at one point or another almost every serious PVP'er on Victory has spent some time in the Lions Den. We love to compete and are currently rebuilding our foundation of Players, we have allready started booking Sg's and VG's for Battles.

Not to jump in on the Conversation late..but i never had a problem with Blasters doing more Damage then a scrapper in Melee..my problem has always been that their Accuracy should not be as good in melee range.

Basically they are going into the Scrapper or tanks wheelhouse and they should not be as well trained in hand to hand combat as people who spend their whole lives working on that sorta thing.

I dont mind if when they hit me it hurts like all hell...i just dont want them to be able to hit me as often as i can hit them when going toe to toe

Not sure if this stuff has been mentioned but here goes

When You could steer the ball on Atari 4 on 4 Football and throw the ball end zone to end zone doing it

When a good game of Combat with bouncing cannon shots off walls was the highlight of your gaming day

When Tapper was a brand new game in the Arcade..

When paying 50 cents for one game of anything was outrageous

When Zaxxon was the first truly 3D game

When "flipping" a game was pretty much the Ultimate

When games didnt have some kind of timer counting down the entire time begging you to feed it quarters

When you could actually beat a game on 1 Quarter

When PVP meant Putting your quarter up and getting in line at Karate Champ

When the Coolest thing you got for Christmas was a roll of quarters and you thought to yourself...thats Video games for a month!

WhenYou had to use the Intellivision Number pad to play a game

When you couldnt play Dragons Lair on your DVD player at home

When Video Bo Jackson was the greatest Football player of all time

When you knew the first 20 Bonus boards of Galaga By heart.

When Tempest was a brand new game..and it was cool

The first time you heard "Red five Standing Bye" on a video game and smiled

When you would get knocked out by Mike Tyson and he was actually the "Baddest Man on the Planet"

When you would use a pencil to break world records on Track and Field but could never do the damn Hammer Throw

When you "Gold back" the skateboard on 720

Ahhh...the golden age of gaming.

Not so old but probably forgotten..When NBA jam came out and as long as you played 2 on 2 and won you got your next game free...i still think i could have won a world title at that game..no lie

Super Group Name - Lions Den
Website- www.guildportal.com Search Lions Den
Leader- Rift.
Recruiting-Rift., Silver-shadow, Thunder Heroine, Night Phantom

Lions Den Description- The Lions Den is Victory's First and formost PVP focused Super Group. We currently have on our roster in the neighborhood of 85% of the Best PVP players on the Server.

We are growing steadily and are pointed directly in the Direction of COV and the upcomming Enviroment for which everybody will be affected.

Some of our more Notable Members include - Bizzaro Krole, Boyue, Matches, Thunder Heroine, Lunatic High ( Stardust Ray to many) Vulker, Rock Mason, Leerooy Jenkins, Magnus Rule, Shadez, Satic05, Seg Fault ( Demon Sorcerer) and the list goes on....

If you think you have what it takes to join the Hunt then visit our Website and fill out the application. Every application is responded to by me or one of our Recruiting officers As quickly as possible.

Just a quick list of some really cool players i've had the honor of teaming with.

Justice Avenger - If you need a targeter for a hammi raid just ask Justice cause its automatic

Tainted Goods- Need a bubbler for that Hammi raid??

Ferrera- a Really sweet actual woman..not many of those around..and is willing to help you if you need it

Sanibak - Rob zombie himself...and a hell of a good scrapper

Hank Reardon- Hanks a cool guy..and never argues with you..he just does his job and thats about as good as it gets on Victory

Jack Drek- Another solid guy....

Sky9 - A really good Pa team leader for Hammi raids

Augur - If you get Augur on your team your in good shape right from the start..its hard to screw things up with him around..i said hard, not impossible

Anybody that Casts RA on me- Being a DA scrapper i'll take all the endurance i can get

Khel' Biostem- Khel Rocks and he has like 320 level 50's so he has somebody for every occasion

I know i'm leaving some people out...especially those people who show up for the Hammi Raids and help us kick [censored] like we did today..great job all


Rift. claws/Dark Scrapper

Apparantly my writing sucks...its cool just thought i would give it a try...


Rift

He was running at full sprint now for what seemed like forever, his lungs burnt like no time in his life before and the fear he felt drove him on further still.

This Section of the city was in such ruins and the uneven terrain made this race for his life that much tougher. The Sewers were now in sight and Rift knew once inside his chances for Survival grew tenfold.

Approx 16 years Earlier......

The Attack came suddenly and without warning, a Massive Rikti War Ship had just unleashed hell right into downtown Steel Canyon, people Scattered as burnt bodies littered the sidewalk like burnt paper. It had been nearly 40 years since anybody had seen the Rikti at all and now they returned more powerfull and in greater numbers then ever Before.

The Heroes of this time stood no chance against the onslaught brought upon them and soon only a few would remain alive in hiding or enslaved like the majority of the Earth had become within days of the initial Invasion.

Rift was born 3 days prior to the massive Invasion and his Parents quickly fled into the caves that had been cleared years ago...it was there that Rift would grow up running and hiding every couple of days as the Rikti would sweep through the area looking for more Slaves.

In the Early years a resistence had formed made up of Hero's that had not been killed or captured but they were woefully outmanned and overmatched. Once Rift had turned 15 he had aged and seen more horror then many people would in an entire lifetime. It was then that he decided to join the Resistence as a scout..his body was still developing but he allready stood 6 feet tall.

Rift's ability to move in and out of the caves,subways and sewers quickly became a valuable tool for the Resistance and he was sent on increasingly more dangerous missions it seemed almost daily.


It had been 2 and half years since he joined up and now Rifts sculpted body had become a weopon in itself and he constantly trained to perfect its use. It was at this time that the strangest things began to happen. Rift although he didnt know it was tapped with the Mutant Gene that had been so prevelant for the last 400 years.


As Rift sat camoflaged in the shadows of his own Dark Shroud high above a Rikti base listening for information about Troop movements and Supply ships coming in he could see a slave ship landing in the Distance and his soul cried as it so often had since he was just a child.

As Rift inched closer and closer to his target he sensed that all was not right..he had devoloped an uncanny sense for his surroundings as a child and it was a skill he would rely on more then he had ever thought in the next few moments.

The Gantry he hung onto creaked with rust as he shimmied down beneath the overhang when the worst case scenario happend. The Bolts meant to support the tower had become so heavily damaged and eroded in the last few years that they could not hope to hold up his 220 pound frame. He laughed to himself as he thought about the odds of falling without making any noise. The Pile of Steel drums however werent laughing when he came crashing through them. His Armor protected him from the fall but the sound could not be stopped and before he knew it an entire Rikti Regiment was alerted to his Presence.

The grating over the drain pipe was missing 3 spokes and as he slid past it he hoped for the thirty or 40 seconds he would need in order to slip back into the shadows and out of harms Way. It woudnt happen Rikti Teleportation has landed the Rikti just outside the drain pipe and blasts from the Drones had allready scorched the sides of the Pipe.

At full sprint once more Rift scrambled over pipes and into a Room..exhausted and injured he knew his odds of escaping dwindled too almost nothing. The Heavy Boots of the Rikti Chief had grown louder by the second and the dull humm of the Drones was the sound of his doom. The Chief shoved his way into the Room and Rift quickly thrust his Claws deep into the Abdomen..he could have sworn through the Battle Helmet he saw a grin come from the Chief as he was thrown 20 feet into the Brick wall..crashing to the ground in a heap. Fear had overcome him now and he got the feeling that after plunging his claws wrist deep into the Chief that being taken prisoner probably wasnt in the Cards.


His Heart pounded in his chest like a large bass drum as the Chief lowered his rifle towards him..the end would at least come quick he thought. And then in a flash his body convulsed with pain and he was gone...........


Kings Row present Day-

A flash of light and burning flesh was met by the thud of the cold wet rooftop. Rifts Breath rushed back into him and for a second he thought he was in Heaven..but oddly enough Heaven sounded like a car screaming by. His Eyes opened and a light groan escaped him as he moved to the Edge of the Roof. Rift couldnt explain why he wasnt dead..and really couldnt explain how he got where he was. And strangest of all the City seemed very much intact..there was no smoldering ruins, no humming of Rikti Drones and most important of all no Chief ready to tear his lungs out.

Alone, confused and badly hurt Rift set out to find out where he was.......



To Be Continued...if anybody gives a poop anyway

Oh Wow where to start,

1) Melee can hit moving Targets and Attack while Running
2) Dark Armor art fix + Stackable
3)Improved AV Encounters
4)Choose your own Adventure style missions, Choices in missions that lead to different branches of a stroy arc.
5) Arena for PVP to test before COV
6 )Better Enhancements,More Temporary Powers,Better Inspirations
7)Actually have missions with a Twist
8)Mission Difficutly Slider
9)Any Reason besides costumes to have a SG
10) Level indicator in SG and Friends lists
11) NPC's in Paragon that do things like Celebrities,Politicians, Activists and anything else to make Paragon more like a real City
12)Something to spend influnce on other than random costume changes
13)Enemy groups that actually attack each other and not just you when you save one of them
14) Factions so that if you take on Rikti your faction with Carnies goes up..or so forth..actually opening the door to Mercenary types
15)A Combat power in the TP power Pool and remove Team TP since almost nobody uses it
16)No More automatic timed missions
17)Trenchcoats,Leather JAckets,Jeans
18)Different Animations for Powers,Different looking Claws/Swords/guns etc.
19)More zones along the lines of the Hollows
20) More Roaming Mobs


Thats all i can think of off the top of my head but gimme some time.

Rift 42 scrapper on Victory