Auroxis
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Posts
1747 -
Joined
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Enough recharge to run the best attack chain possible, and then damage bonuses/health bonuses/regen.
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Rad blast is quite underrated. Its single target damage might not be stellar, but you can provide some -res to your team with the Achilles' heel proc, and having a mag 3 stun in your attack chain is very nice. Also, having 3 AoE's is awesome once you get Reactive.
Some tips...
1. Slot procs. Especially into Neutrino Bolt, and once you reach high levels of recharge you can do without X-Ray.
2. Get the Spiritual Alpha, it enhances the Stun in Cosmic Burst, your heals, and most importantly your recharge.
3. Check out the videos linked in my sig.
4. Here's my current build:
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Quote:It's actually a 90 seconds recharge.Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Around 2/3s the damage of Shield Charge (65ish vs 100ish) and a 2 minute recharge as opposed to 90 seconds. -
I'm not yet sure about the single target damage comparison(I posted the numbers in the StJ scrapper thread), but at first glance the ST DPS seems to lean towards SS, with StJ having more utility(-res, -dam).
As for AoE, SS wins handily. Foot Stomp makes the current tiny radius/cone of Spinning Strike and Sweeping Cross look like a joke, and Rage makes your other AoE's significantly better. -
I'm thinking /Sonic is the best fit. Sonic has very nice -res which doesn't require a lot of set-up time, and is very light on click powers overall(making it weapon-set friendly). Most importantly, the biggest downside of Sonic is the lack of a regen debuff, which Beam Rifle provides.
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Quote:Are you saying that everyone should get extra damage from their AT sets? Or that tankers should get a bigger survivability proc? If it's the latter, I'd personally wait until we get the exact numbers for the procs.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Listening to the scuttlebutt in channel today, it turns out the Scrapper's AT set improves their chance to Crit off everything 20%
That makes what Tankers are getting even more ridiculous.
I want to reiterate how lame I think the Tanker set getting a minor +Res proc is compared to what Scrappers and Brutes walk away with in their sets.
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Quote:Yes I have with SD, it's great at the lower levels. I've also taken an Ice tanker to 50, and Energy Absorption is stupidly powerful once you get it. Mind you AAO also gives crazy amounts of aggro, but it doesn't come close to giving the mitigation of Chilling Embrace.Originally Posted by Finduilas
Yes, and at lower levels Hoarfrost is a modest heal on a very long recharge; Chilling Embrace can easily draw more aggro than a low level tanker can handle. We could argue the minutiae of which tanker primary is better and under what circumstances endlessly--it's certainly happened on this forum often enough--but that still provides no evidence that the devs are using this change to address a systemic weakness in positional defense.
Purely anecdotally, I've played almost all the tanker primaries at low levels, and none of them has had as easy a time as the SR/MA tank sitting in Beta. Having 28% melee and ranged defense before level 10 makes much, much more difference than Hoarfrost or any of the other things you mentioned. Have *you* tried it?
If they've taken it to 50 and invested in IO's, then the buff from it isn't very meaningful. For example, would you rather have an incarnate softcap option(which purple insps can cover), or a power like Lightning Rod? The answer isn't clear cut, whereas before there was absolutely no reason to take MA apart from concept.Quote:Heck, I think players with positional defense characters other than MA should be ticked off that one secondary gets this huge boost and they don't.
It depends on how major the problem is. In this case, small issues like incarnate softcapping and low level balance don't warrant a powerset revamp. And that's why giving a synergy option is appropriate.Quote:Considering that it's situational and that presumably the other defense sets have strengths to compensate--not necessarily the same kind of strength, mind you--I have no problem with it.
The problem with going down that road is then you have to start asking why resistance set Y doesn't have a tool defense set Z has. If there is indeed a systemic problem with positional defense sets that needs to be addressed, it should be addressed systemically, not by giving what I consider to be an unbalancing boost to one secondary.
The particular situation happens to be the most important endgame content. S/L/E/N is very dominant in endgame TF's and trials, but maybe the next trials will change that(haven't tried underground yet).Quote:I said that *soft-capping* positional defense is thought to be more effective than soft-capping S/L/E/NE/F/C. (And it clearly is, given that it covers all but a very small percentage of attacks.) Whether it's more effective to soft-cap S/L rather than go for a lesser amount of positional defense is not as clear. But given no defense to start with and a limited number of slots to use to get it, if a player is going to pick one defense category to go for, S/L is in most cases the best choice for melee characters.
But that's design choice that players make based on defense effectiveness in that particular situation, and does not in any way prove that positional defense is somehow inferior to typed defense.
Lowering it to 5 makes it far less viable as an incarnate softcap choice, so I would say no. Remember that it still provides survivability to everyone, it's just that some powersets get more synergy. For example, the Ice tanker gets more protection from Toxic/Psi, while the Shield tanker gets early game strength and an incarnate softcap. How about if Focus Chi added Psionic Defense? That would help make it more viable to typed defense sets.Quote:Now *that* is a completely different argument, but if that's the tack you want to take, fine. If it's MA that needs a boost, not positional defense sets, then it really makes no sense to have it affect just positional defense.
And it's too large, I think it gives way too much of a advantage to a certain sub-group of players. As I suggested earlier in the thread, halve it to 5% and make it apply to S/L/E/NE/F/C as well as M/R/A. That way, playing MA has unique advantage that adds a nice bit of extra survivability to most tank primaries. -
Quote:I attack while they recharge, and I can definitely hold my own without them. Without Clarion, I have BF's. WIthout RA, I have Healing Aura.Originally Posted by Biospark
I love how Lore Pets get mentioned so much these days as a cure for the pathetic solo capability of Empathy. In fact, the whole Incarnate system probably means that Defender primary balance concerns just got the "round-file" treatment.
As far as you assesment above, you are forgetting that without Clarion, you have no mezz protection of your own. Empathy is a "Jehkyl and Hyde" powerset. What you can do with RA running (and/or pets) is definitely NOT the same as without. So do you wait for them to recharge ? -
Quote:Let's see here...Originally Posted by New Dawn
This would come down to soloing potential.
I'm guessing Empathy/Radiation.
- Perma stun on bosses in your attack chain.
- Great regen and recovery.
- Self heal when needed.
- 3 AoE's to rock the Reactive with.
- Great buffs for Lore pets.
Seems solid to me. -
Quote:Same for SD, DA and Invuln.Originally Posted by Stryph
See now SR would be difficult with StJ in trying to manage endurance, at least until you gain access to Body Mastery (which is what now, 35?).
Aid Self, or Rebirth. And it shares the same problem with SD(and Invuln to a lesser extent).Quote:Because there's no safety net, and again, it's not just a problem with StJ but with all fast sets. SR has to be my favorite secondary but lacks any kind of tool to turn the tides when things go bad - making you have to go with First Aid (though if you're going for a 'natural' character concept, it works). -
Quote:I can't see how consistent attacking benefits DB more than other weapon sets, considering the combos stay intact.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Healing Flames, Burn, and FE all cause redraw and two of those you want to be using as much as possible. While none of them directly break the combos, DB more then any set benefits from consistently attacking and /fire goes against that.
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Quote:Slower attacks carry a bigger defiance bonus, so that doesn't really matter.Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
While I don't have any hard numbers for you... I can tell you this: It stands to reason that... the faster the set can attack, the more effective defiance becomes.
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Quote:It's an inferior recharge buff with only a single target in range, and having multiple targets around you isn't something you can rely upon, especially if you team. That being said, having Energize means you can go for Ageless(Instead of Rebirth) if you need the recharge.Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
You're forgetting the most incredible update for EA - the Recharge Debuff on enemies and scaling Recharge Buff for the player! All of those things combined for Energy Aura is really spectacular! You won't even need a high end build in order to keep Energize permanent with Energy Aura. That's a whopping 100% extra Regeneration and a 59.6% global Endurance Reduction! Permanent! My Elec/Elec/Elec Scrapper has perma-Energize in her build with it enhanced to 217.2% Regen!
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Quote:SR is easier to softcap than EA and has less holes, though it doesn't have its endurance management and self heal. As far as SR vs. SD, in this situation the only advantage SR has over SD is recharge, which might be helpful with the top attack chain.Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
No mention of StJ/SR huh? Something needs to be done about that set, and I thought with it being Proliferated over to Brutes and then later to Tanks would help give it some sort of new competitive edge with high end builds. Ice Armor gets a (2.6 Endurance cost) crashless Tier 9 that can be made to have a 1/3rd uptime and Energy Aura gets a bevy of changes that is making it go from an okay set to an awesome set.
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Quote:How can you say StJ/EA is endurance heavy with Energize and Energy Drain?Originally Posted by War-Nugget
Spring Attack - think Hulk leaping onto a tank and smashing it to itty-bitty pieces.
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StJ/EA is nice. Endurance heavy, but nice.
Fits my character quite well - concept wise. Sad that there isn't a no fx version of the stealth power. >.> -
Regen, Invuln, and FA all have a weakness to psi, so it's nothing new. If you keep purple insps handy and get the Elusive Mind accolade power, you should be set as encounters heavy on psi damage are quite rare.
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Quote:StJ/EA brutes are indeed pretty awesome.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It's also worth noting that scrappers not only benefit mechanically more from damage buffs, their self buffs get higher values. For power siphon, the difference is 125% +dam versus 156% +dam when stacked five times. Go scrappers.
The waiting sucks though, doesn't it? If you want to make a street justice/energy aura, it's even longer! Argh!
KM is in my opinion the worst on brutes, as you get the least out of Power Siphon compared to the other AT's, and tankers get better damage debuff numbers. -
Quote:Your Ice tank will have Hoarfrost, Chilling Embrace, and a damage aura at the low levels to make up for that. And then at level 26 you get Energy Absorption to close the gap. It's not that big of a difference. Besides, some sets have better synergy with others, so while you can get close to the softcap earlier the Ice tanker can pick KM to stack -damage.Originally Posted by Finduilas
The additional advantage for positional defense sets is even more stark at the pre-IO level; my SR/MA can have 28% defense at level 3, my Ice tank will have around 18% S/L defense and 10% positional defense. That's a huge difference in survivability.
I'd be a hypocrite to argue otherwise as my main tank(elec) sits at 32.5% positionals, but I'll just say that S/L is stupidly common IME and the holes aren't as significant.Quote:Yes, and the tradeoff for covering the most common types at a lower cost in slots and enhancements is significant holes in coverage. Seems fair to me.
I'm not assuming anything about what the devs think, I'm simply stating what's logical to me about their decision. Instead of focusing on what the devs may or may not think, what do YOU think? Is it ok for Inv and Ice tankers to have incarnate softcapping tools, while SD does not have that option?Quote:How does first statement gibe with the second one? Aren't you assuming that the devs are factoring in satured Invinc and EA and therefore perceiving positional def to be at a significant disadvantage? If not, why bother mentioning it?
Bottom line, I haven't seen any evidence that suggests that the devs consider positional defense to be lacking compared to typed defense, and without that, the argument that the MA change is designed to address it is unconvincing.
Strange, my experience is quite the opposite. People prefer to softcap themselves to S/L/E/N instead of going for 32.5% positionals.Quote:It's certainly not the common perception among players from what I've seen. IME, Positional defense is typically seen as better because it offers more complete coverage, an advantage at least somewhat offset by the lower cost of soft-capping the most common types.
If like you say there's no problem, then there's no need for a big AT-wide fix. This MA change gives a nice synergy option, but it doesn't tip the scales either way as MA is quite weak without it.Quote:Even if you're right and the Storm Kick defense buff is somehow designed to give positional def a needed boost, it strikes me as a remarkably ineffective one, since it will only be of assistance to players of one secondary of one AT. -
Quote:It's not that bad. Healing Flames won't break your combos, so it's just redraw issues which all other weapon sets have. On the plus side you have Blinding Feint which makes Burn and Blazing Aura better.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Fire farms are not even .01% of content and /fire isn't /wp. I wouldn't pair up /fire with a weapon set unless I had a really good concept I had to roll. DB might be the worst weapon set to pair with /fire.
In terms of "Brutal", the organic dual blades seem pretty brutal to me, concept-wise. -
Quote:It gives +62.5% damage for 10 seconds and sets your combo count to 3(max). Combo at 3 means that your "finisher" attack deals an extra 25% base damage.Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Might have been covered already...
But what does Combat Readiness do exactly?
With 2xp going, don't really have time to be updating 4gigs to test
If you're interested in the numbers I've compiled them here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0 -
Quote:Both Typed and Positional defense based tankers can reach the softcap without sacrificing too much, and they both need to do so without the assistance of MA. If you jump into a spawn and your SK misses, what do you fall back on? building for defense will still be needed for defense based sets either way, so my point is that whether it caters to typed or positional primaries more isn't really relevant at the IO level.Originally Posted by Finduilas
Though undoubtedly true, I don't see how it's relevant. Positional defense based tanker primaries have just as few, if not fewer issues reaching the soft-cap for all positions.
If you want to cover for the most common damage types, S/L, you just have to slot for S/L defense. If you want to cover for the next most common damage types, you have to slot for E/N defense. That's 2 instead of 3 to gain complete coverage for the most common damage types, or 1 instead of 3(which is the most popular). Note that while there are builds which softcap themselves to 4 damage types(and the rest gets covered by resists), there are none which even come close to softcapping themselves to all 3 positions.Quote:Hmm, I was under the impression that the easier-to-slot aspect of typed defense was a trade-off for a) the inherent weakness to Toxic, and b) the fact that you have to slot for four separate defense categories--S/L, E/NE, F/C and Psi--to approach the coverage of positional defense. To give MA players such a huge incentive to slot for positional defense seems like a lot more than evening the playing field.
I'm not pretending to understand the devs way of thinking, I'm just making sense of their decisions in what way I can.Quote:But I have a hard time believing that the the intended goal of this change was to encourage players with resistance based sets to slot for positional defense for two reasons: For one, why would the devs care whether players slot for positional or typed defense? It's not like it's somehow game-breaking for players to prefer typed defense.
Your Ice tank can incarnate softcap with saturated Energy Absorption, and so can your Inv tank with saturated Invincibility. Does your SD have an equivalent tool in its disposal?Quote:Secondly, if that's the reason behind it, there's a significant UNintended consequence; it benefits positional defense sets much much more than typed defense sets.
For example, I have a Shield character that's sitting at around 47% defense to all positions. At 57% defense, this change will put her near the incarnate soft-cap pretty much constantly for all positions. It would be trivially easy for a SR/MA tanker to reach 60% defense to all positions.
On my Ice tank, the MA defense buff would yield no benefit whatsoever for S/L/E/NE defense--the types that comprise about 75% of the game's content--because adding the 10% is less than the typed defense she has already for those types. The way she's currently slotted, the 10% positional buff will increase her protection from F/C/Psi and Toxic to around 30%; nice, but not even *close* to the benefit my Shield tank gets from this change.
Instead of 10% positional defense, I'd like to see it give a smaller amount of defense--5% for instance--to S/L/E/NE/F/C as well as all positions. It would be a helpful buff, but not game changing, and positional defense would maintain its advantage as the defense category that covers Psi and Toxic when typed defense typically does not. -
Quote:With the exception of WP, the typed defense powersets all have a weakness to psi which the positional defense helps cover, and they(Inv,Stone,Ice) also have very few problems in reaching the S/L/N/E/F/C softcap with IO's. As for the resistance based powersets, they build for typed defenses simply because it is easier(in terms of slots), and this MA change gives a very nice option to build for positional defenses, evening the playing field.Originally Posted by Finduilas
That's one way to put it.
I know there's a precedent for this since Parry gives just Melee positional defense. But I think this is different for a couple of reasons.
First, although I haven't use the sword sets to any great degree, IIRC, the melee defense is Parry does stack with repeat applications, so it's a least conceivable that a typed defense character could get a fair amount of melee defense under some circumstances. The defense buff from Storm Kick does NOT stack on itself, so the only buff you're going to get is the 10%.
Second, the Parry buff is for one position and the Storm Kick buff is for all positions. That combined with the fact that it's non-stacking makes it hugely more advantageous for sets with positional def compared to those with typed defense since positional defense builds will have access to a constant 10% defense buff that stacks with their other defense powers. Having an additional 10% positional melee defense that does not stack with your typed defense is a lot less useful.
That seems very inequitable to me, and it's made even more so by the fact that if you're getting a fair proportion of your defense from sets you'll be better off than if you have a set like Ice, since you won't have as many 1/2 scale positional defense boosts that you get from set bonuses.
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice buff even for typed defense, but IMO it needs to be rethought to address the inequities in benefit between positional and melee defense sets.
I can already imagine DA/MA builds softcapped to all positions. -
On brutes, I think CR could easily be skipped with no DPS loss. Burst damage is another issue.
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Quote:I really don't see the point in terms of performance. You're not going to have perma-elude so you'll still want to softcap yourself, and in the very rare cases where you do need Elude you can use purple insps instead. Chasing after ridiculous levels of recharge also means you're missing out on damage bonuses, so it's simply not worth it in my book.Originally Posted by Kangstor
I say if you didn't already put some cash into your kat/SR wait untill freedom is released. Many builds will be changed but I think almost all of SR builds will aim to get that almost 6 minutes long elude. I maybe wrong but I think its a too sweet deal to miss and probably people will focus on more recharge and higher dps with their SR builds.
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Quote:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=266564Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
The only things that's somewhat questionable is what I bolded...