Aura_Familia
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Posts
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Quote:I THINK it's in there cause it's one of the few co-op zones we have. Cim being the other one, would make EVEN LESS sense for it being there.Originally Posted by Todogut
While we're discussing removing AE buildings from zones, I suggest the AE building should be removed from Rikti War Zone because:
- It's a hazard zone with a war going on.
- Surrounding buildings are besieged by villains/partially demolished.
How does it make sense that, in the middle of a war zone, a new, high-tech entertainment skyscraper was constructed, requiring complex infrastructure to maintain operation, and it remains pristine, untouched, while surrounded by warring villains and partially demolished terrain?
A roleplay rationale could be devised, something like:
- That's why Dr. Aeon is a super-genius; he devised some way to keep his building safe.
- It's like a USO show for troops in real-world war zones. Vanguard and the other troops in RWZ need entertainment to keep up morale.
- The Rikti and other villain groups, for some reason, support the AE building in the zone.
However, none of these rationales ring true.
The AE building does not belong in Rikti War Zone and should be removed. -
Quote:Yeah I don't find the Hollows that impressive. And that zone is not any more new than the ones I'm mentioned. Faultline is great but even now it's showing it's age. The new talos ones are pretty good, but there's still the issue of leveling enough to actually get to them, unless you come from Failtoria.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
True. However, I can run Holllows->Faultline->New Talos arcs till the cows come home.
Why? Because they are good. They are well written and engaging with decent mission layout, more so for the new Talos arcs especially (IMO).
The current blueside low level stuff is utter dross. It has no plot. It is nothing more than a string of random missions thrown together with bad writing.
So, new players can be forgiven for thinking 'I can't stomach that for x many levels, PL time for me!' and lunging at the AE.
And, speaking of the AE, I for one find it incredibly hard to find quality stuff in there as compared to streams of utter dross.
Maybe time for a much updated interface update, because I know that doesn't make life easier...
My point is, however, that players should NOT be introduced to a zone where the norm they first see is AE spam (a problem thankfully absent on Union, but that doesnt stop it obviously being a problem elsewhere.) They should know that the rest of the game is out there and is as fun and 'better' than PLing through to 50 and then grumbling and quitting.
I do see your point. Perhaps moving it to Kings Row (which is still NOT USED that much) would help?
Honestly (like you alluded to) I think it's only Freedom that has this issue. I barely see any Atlas AE spam on any of the other servers. -
Galaxy will still exist in Oroborous. However the new galaxy will be a CO-OP tutorial zone. Whether you'll be able to zone back into tutorial Galaxy AFTER leaving it, is something that's not clear.
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Quote:completely disagree. The lowbie arcs getting redone is all fine and good, but once you've seen them ONCE they are no longer new. Unlike the devs the AE can have a constant stream of NEW lowbie arcs. Much faster than the devs can add new lowbie arcs.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm hoping that the I21 lowbie zone revamp will indeed remove the AEs from those zones.
The fact the low level arcs are getting completely re-done (as far as I know from reading Dev posts etc) negates the replacement arc argument.
The reason AE was/is so popular, especially blue side, is that the low level content there is utter, utter dross. I, for one, have often wished I could just skip to level 22, where the fun actually started. Praetoria disqualified itself, for me, for using too much hax (cheaty mobs, constant ambushes, annoying mob placement etc)
Hopefully the new lowbie content puts all those faults to the torch in a new golden age...heh. I hope.
Also unless I'm mistaken the revamp is ONLY for Atlas and Galaxy, which is no where NEAR level 22 levels of content. I've not even seen anywhere where they said they are also re-doing content in the Skyway/Steel Canyon/Talos range. And I don't think they've said they are doing anything to King's Row or Perez partk. So yeah, I still think the AE will be useful for low level stuff. -
Quote:I keep bringing it up because some folks stated (during the Power Cust debate) that they'd be willing to take no updates for however long it would take. Just nipping that in the bud early before it rears its head again.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
OK. You may be right. OTOH, it does seem plausible that they could put a team on the planning stages (code time is locked up for several months, but likely would not be needed on this idea for several months anyway), without much impact on regular releases. When I look at from a man hours PoV, I likely wouldn't even want a team working on it full-time, at least not at first. All that being said, why are we the players even bothering to discuss the labor aspect? So many cases where players think something is plausible turn out not to happen and very many cases where players said nothing would ever happen have come to fruition.
The devs would have to spend time doing it is a pointless discussion, since it is out of our realm of knowledge. Most everything brought up in the suggestion forum will take Dev time to do; should we shutdown this section of the forums? Should we only suggest stuff that will take 30 man hours or less? What is the limit on Dev time where we are allowed to weigh the pros and cons of an idea outside of manhours to accomplish?
For the last time, I completely understand and acknowledge that time to implement is a huge negative against a freeform system. There is no more reason to discuss that point, because it was conceded in the VERY FIRST POST in this thread.
People who continue to bring it up like they are the only people to realize this baffle me.
I'm not saying that folks shouldn't suggest it. What I'm saying is if it's a choice between that and everything else or even 30% of everything else, I'd pass on a freeform system wholesale.
Just stated my preference as a player. We're allowed to do that here in the suggestion forums.
Just making it clear to which dev is reading (if they are) that choosing to do this over power cust, FINALLY looking at pvp and bases, and anything else, I'd pass on a freeform system.
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Pretty sure the "first zone" they'll be seeing is the Galaxy City under attack tutorial.
/unsigned. -
Ohhh I know the devs are capable of creating such a system.
do I think they can AND still do everything else we want them to do?
NO, so I'd rather they focus on stuff that can update the game rather than having no updates for nearly a year.
That's the deal breaker with this.
Everything they are working on is higher priority than a pie in the sky free form system that may not work or be balance-able.
If they ever do pursue this (other than in an AT which would be easier) I'd prefer they do it in the year 2043.
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Quote:I can also see their lvl 40+ ability being the ability to also mix and match powers from different sets WITHOUT having to get prereqs first. (There is a vet power, which I have but can't remember the month, that allows you to choose superspeed without choosing hasten, or fly without first picking up air sup; so I know it's possible to be done for pool powers at least).Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Why discuss something that's not worth doing? Personally that sounds like just a lot of hot air, and a waste of everyone's time.
I think Aura's idea of an AT that has some free form to it is viable, beyond the VEATs. They are a slightly free-form AT. I don't know if it would be worth it, but that is viable under the current game structure, and probably worth discussing.
For every example that's been given for what some folks would "like to be able to do", I would think that creating new epic sets could possibly cover their needs or even new combo power sets.
Think about it. Pistol Mastery, Axe Mastery, a Mace mastery that doesn't include the Villain side Maces, etc.
Maybe new power Sets: another dual wield set, like dual blades, but instead of two blades we get a mace/blade set! That would cover even more "wants". Instead of mace/blade, a dual wield set of Blade/Pistol. Very Pirate. Again, this cover's some player's wants and could be balanced against itself.
Those ideas I can see arguing for, within the confines of what CoH is. Customization of power sets, to create different looks, works within what CoH is. Free form power selection isn't what CoH is.
IF you wanted to go that direction, free-form, I believe you'd have more dissension then even the i13 PvP changes created. It may, in some peoples minds, create added value, but as you pointed out this would create a higher level of complexity. A level of complexity that I think the average player would balk at. -
Quote:Uhh are you talking about premium players or new players. You keep jumping around and are not making sense.Originally Posted by Bloodwynd
You are right I did. Sure I can play for free. No arguments and most everything is free. But that is not going to bring new people in and create new revenue. Therefore the mistake has been made by the limitations of what they are doing.
If the point is new players, how does allowing OLD VETERAN folks WHO COULD NOT PLAY BEFORE IF THEY WEREN'T SUBBED access to 90% of the game have anything to do with NEW players. Those vets who now have access AREN'T NEW PLAYERS!!!
*boogle*
Am I missing something here?
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Quote:You failed to quote this part of my post, which CANNOT just be glossed over:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Hmmm. See, if someone did that type of balancing a lot, it would actually be much easier than you may think. Naturally, tools to analyze balance would need to exist (but one would think they already have those now, since they need them for their own work). I still have to acknowledge the possibility for human error is large and the whole idea is likely untenable, but it is still fascinating to wonder about.
Of course, the original template players would interact with would have suggested guidelines, sample templates to compare with, and hopefully even allow for starting from dev made templates.
You worry about current dev time, how many a week do you think they'd get? If it cost 40 dollars to submit? How about 30 dollars, 20 dollars, 10 dollars? Any approved template would become part of the game that anyone could purchase for standard new powerset cost (or maybe a bit less since it is so very specific and not as applicable across concepts), the template submitter would get the unlock as part of the original cost.
As I said before I don't think a free form system is worth scrapping work on power prolif, COH freedom, new ATs etc for something that may fall flat on its face.
It's not worth the potential problems and lack of content.
They should just start it in a new game.
EDIT: Let me put it this way if they had the manpower and resources as you suggest to do such a thing, then why pray tell are we getting the Incarnate system (both trials and the MUCH requested small teams/solo path) released at a glacial pace. You'd think there would be something like 3 trials per issue and sub issue.
I don't think you're being realistic when looking at it from what else they currently have on their plates and have planned for the next 3-4 issues.
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It's irrelevant how much it costs, the devs STILL have to take time out of what they have to do to reveiw them, no matter how many they get. (I'd bet money even at 50.00 per submission they'd still get a cosmic crap ton with all the various powerset suggestions that have appeared in these suggestion forums over the years).
And again, if the devs have all this extra time down time (which is what you are basically saying they have) why have we been getting the Incarnate trials and other Incarnate content at a glacial pace. If you say because of COH Freedom, you're further making my point. For obvious reasons.
I don't think folks realize what they are asking for. Certainly this is not impossible. But I'd argue its WAAAAAAAAY more time consuming than powerset customization, which by the way others pointed isn't even done yet.
If they have all this magical extra time to revamp the way the game works from the ground up then explain the lack of dev time on AE, bases and pvp.
Yeah, I'm ssssuuuuuuuuuurrreee it'll take no extra time and require no sacrifice of other content. (that was sarcasm in case anyone missed it).
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Quote:LOLWUT?Originally Posted by Irresponsible
People are still using AE to farm after all the changes the devs made to discourage farming? I've honestly never seen anyone spamming for a farm team in ages. If I saw one I might even report it. Gives MA arcs such a bad name.
This is hilariously incorrect.
Spend some time on Freedom Atlas park. -
Quote:Except the content isn't suddenly jumping back to tfs. The content once again is going to be trials. Seeing as how the first new trial since the thread system came into existence drops threads that can be used for all 5 slots, I don't think they'll be restricting content again via new currency. Also you could convert the shards to threads. Unless I missed something that was there from day one.Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Really? So creating a new currency didn't stop people from using the level 50 TFs to create their post-Alpha abilities? Fascinating, I guess all of those "I don't want to be forced to trial" threads were a figment of my imagination.
The core effect of switching to a new currency was to make the new trials the only viable method of post-Alpha advancement. We can argue about whether or not that was a good thing but I'm fed up with people claiming that the primary effect was to slow people with stockpiled shards.
I'd be willing to bet that if you took the total supply of thread-based components that have been generated post I20 and compared that to the supply of shard based components that could have been created with existing shard stockpiles when I20 went live that the former would be at least an order of magnitude larger than the latter.
I am thoroughly convinced that the goal behind creating a new currency was primarily about limiting what content could be effectively used for the new abilities. If shards had been usable for the new abilities then people would have spent their time farming level 50 TFs for the new abilities which the devs apparently do not want.
A new currency would be MORE pointless unless they intend to shift the Incarnate content from being trials. Which I don't see them doing.
Also why are folks assuming that we'll be getting new slots with the Hamidon trial? -
Add me on as hoping it's that . . . fool, Ms. Liberty. Either her or statesman please.
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I will say if they wanted to create a SINGULAR epic AT that could have a bit more open power choices, then THAT might be a bit more realistic.
Happening any time soon, LOL NO.
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Strat there is not enough hours in the day for the system you proposed at the end of your post.
The current mods/devs/community team don't have enough time to review things flagged in the AE or to release Dev's Choice arcs in anything that could be considered a timely manner.
I think haveing folks send in stuff for review would be impossible.
As I said before I don't think a free form system is worth scrapping work on power prolif, COH freedom, new ATs etc for something that may fall flat on its face.
It's not worth the potential problems and lack of content.
They should just start it in a new game.
EDIT: Let me put it this way if they had the manpower and resources as you suggest to do such a thing, then why pray tell are we getting the Incarnate system (both trials and the MUCH requested small teams/solo path) released at a glacial pace. You'd think there would be something like 3 trials per issue and sub issue.
I don't think you're being realistic when looking at it from what else they currently have on their plates and have planned for the next 3-4 issues. -
Quote:Which would be epically stupid.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
There still may be "consequences" for buying into the Well and becoming an Incarnate.
.
Seeing as how it's BLATANTLY obvious in Mender Ramiels arc when you talk to statesmen. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Haetron
Fixed, because this isn't something that just started with the incarnate system. CoH, since inventions, has always seen the solution to gating new content as "Welp, we'll just create a new currency!"
It gets kind of old, fast.
Creating a new currency will have the same result at it did this time.
It's a speed bump of silliness that does nothing to slow folks who are dedicated down and starts casual players at 0. It doesn't equalize jack s****. You still had folks b-casting with the +level shifts in a week or less. -
I'll ask the folks who want the free-form power system this:
Would you be willing to forgo 9 months (LOL, I'm being waaaaaay less than conservative here. Someone mentioned 772 powers earlier. It would take WAAAAAY longer than 9 months to force this upon this game) of no updates for the devs to work on this?
Keep in mind that they have announced and NO WAY IN HELL will scrap all their MONTHS (I'd bet years) of work on a free to play system.
In other words would it be okay to announce a free to play system ment to lure in more EVENTUAL paying customers, then a week latter announce that there would be NO UPDATES OF ANY KIND for at least 9 months (again LMAO) while they added this free form system? Do you see the epic failure of logic here?
The devs are NOT going to drop what they have on deck (I'm REASONABLY sure that they have at least up to Issue 24 in the works by now) for a year to do something as UNSURE as as what could possibly be an ENTIRE RE-WRITE of the game.
Let's put it in realistic perspective folks. The issue is not whether it can't be done. It can be. The issue is are you willing to bet the life and existence of COH on it? I sure as hell am not.
And like I said during the Power Cust discussions BEFORE the devs got more resources above the now legendary freem 15, not just no but HELL M'FING NO (in Samuel L. Jackson voice) would I give up a year or two of updates of anykind for a free form system. They might as well just close up shop and make COH 2.
As Memphis and other said, just make COH2.
/unsigned so hard the pen broke. -
/unsigned as unnecessary.
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LOLWUT?
That is all. -
Quote:Mods, please get rid of stuff like this from this thread. It's been clean so far and we don't need to old idiocy seen in pwnz forum or past discussions about tatics and changes to pvp rearing their silly heads in here.Originally Posted by SoulTouch
Its clear to me that the people arguing against this suggestion clearly have no clue what they're talking about (fanservice in particular) i'd hazard a guess to say that you are one of two things 1)post i13 PvPer, who never really experience PvP pre the retarded changes and just argues against these changes for the sake of being bad 2)A srs bzns fiteklubber who believes you should never pop insps, run from fights use accolades etc, and therefore if TS was removed and people could suddenly use TACTICS again to EVADE near death situations in zones it would render your terribly built fiteklubbing toon; useless. whichever one of the two (or maybe combination of both) that you are, the end result is the same: you are bad and any change made to PvP your bad status would just get worse.
lmfaorofllololbadbad gtfo kid.
Thanks.
EDIT: Back on topic: I still suggest that heal decay needs to go away completely. I would not mind TS going away also but recommend that it be toned down: ex: no TS when using INSP, melee gets no TS, etc. -
As others pointed out (and for some reason is being ignored by some) there MIGHT be a bug related to this, that's it not working the way it's supposed to. Until that can be confirmed or de-confirmed there's no point arguing about whether this is working as intended for a trial of 12-24 people. It may very well NOT be doing what it's supposed to.
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Quote:Uhhh, when were we ever prevented from choosing a magic origin when GR came out?Originally Posted by Dante
But not their origin. If magic users are treated in a particular way, it'd be nice to know. Just like people rolling psychic characters wondered if they were going to be carted off to work with Mother.
Also magic PLAYER CHARACTERS aren't treated in any way. What is done to and between NPCs should really have no bearing on your rp. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Dante
You know, without wanting to sound too negative, but did it ever occur to the Devs to actually tell us this when Going Rogue was released?
We had loads of conversations about where all the magic was in Praetoria and for almost a year we've been rolling magic characters in Praetoria with no indication of how it was treated there. This kind of information is useful when writing character bios and thinking up RP plots. Revealing it this late is a bit... frustrating to be honest.
Uhhh, players can adjust their bios and costumes at will.
Not seeing the issue here. -
In general people prefer playing heroes to villains.
Redside isn't dead, it's just not as popular.