So is it inteded for disintegration to hit me for more hitpoints that I even have?


Arbegla

 

Posted

Look I get that you want to make these things difficult but this is just unfair.

Anti-Matter's Disintegration of your body deals 1895.08 points of damage.

My hitpoint cap on my sr scrapper is 1807 That's hitting me for 88 more hitpoints that I even have and I have the accolades and +hitpoint set bonuses. Even with having all of those emps healing me and regen powers on me none of it mattered since it ticked for more health that I can possibly even have. How do you expect me to even survive that? How about adjusting this and making it tick more often but not so high.

If you want to make these things difficult then feel free but adding instant death mechanics like this are not fun.


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Posted

I have noticed Disintegration completely, you know, disintegrating weaker ATs in one hit. Kinda unfair if you ask me, since AntiMatter gets 20% HP from disintegrate-ees.


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Posted

I forget the exact amount of damage involved but I'm pretty sure if you are next to one of the fire buildings in Steel Canyon when it blows up it'll do like 5,000 HPs of damage to any AT. *shrugs*

I agree that a game like this should not have too many "one-shot-kill" scenarios because it would become annoying after a while. That's pretty much why the Devs added the one-shot code to handle most of those situations. But I actually don't mind the idea that there are would be at least a few things that could insta-kill us like this. This game, for the most part, is relatively easy to play - the idea that there are a few things out there that can kill anyone instantly makes it more challenging and interesting.

Encounters like this are supposed to be among the hardest in the game.
I see little reason to be too upset about the cheesy tactics they use.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
Look I get that you want to make these things difficult but this is just unfair.

Anti-Matter's Disintegration of your body deals 1895.08 points of damage.

My hitpoint cap on my sr scrapper is 1807 That's hitting me for 88 more hitpoints that I even have and I have the accolades and +hitpoint set bonuses. Even with having all of those emps healing me and regen powers on me none of it mattered since it ticked for more health that I can possibly even have. How do you expect me to even survive that? How about adjusting this and making it tick more often but not so high.

If you want to make these things difficult then feel free but adding instant death mechanics like this are not fun.

IIRC, the Keyes overview said that Disintegration was designed to kill you pretty much unless you had a constant influx of healing coming in as soon as he hit you with it.

If it's ticking on you for 1895, the 1hit code should cause it to drop you to 1hp (unless you're already damaged, in which case, sorry). So I guess you essentially need to be healed back to full before each tick or you die.

This seems to be the way it is designed, so the answer the question "So is it inteded for disintegration to hit me for more hitpoints that I even have?" is Yes.


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Posted

the final tick is doing -99% of your hp so if your not at full hp before that tick then almost guarenteed your gonna die

there are 4 ticks total to disintegration and there are 6 seconds between each tick, so as long as your healed to full hp before the ticks hit you will be fine


 

Posted

I suspect you're running into a bug of some kind, probably one that hits you for 99% of your uncapped hit points by mistake.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
My hitpoint cap on my sr scrapper is 1807 That's hitting me for 88 more hitpoints that I even have and I have the accolades and +hitpoint set bonuses.
You're getting hit for more than your current max hp, not more than your hit point cap. Buffs like Frostworks and Rebirth with +hp can both get you a lot closer to the cap for Scrappers, and make it a lot easier to keep you on your feet.

It's part of the teamwork aspect of the raid.


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Posted

I'm trying not to sound like a complainer here but why must such a power be so unforgiving?

For me this is the only thing I don't like about this trial. No bit of tactics on my own part can prevent me from being hit by it, short of not attending the trial or not fighting in the final phase of the trial. Surely there is a much more reasonable yet still difficult adjustment that can be made to this power.

I propose to make it tick more and more often but for less health. A really quick high damage dot similar to that of burn but much higher.


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Posted

The tactics to beat it involve cohesive teamwork, just as it's designed to. When I've been on good KIR teams healers were on top of Disint targets before they had a chance to call out for an assist. Eventually even PuGs will get the hang of this.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I suspect you're running into a bug of some kind, probably one that hits you for 99% of your uncapped hit points by mistake.
That sounds logical.

So, it should be /bugged since the last tick of DoT is supposed to hit for 99%.


To the OP: As far as whether it should or not: What is debt to you at level 50? Is your league really incapable of killing AM if he heals to full?

If you really, really not want to be killed from it, the league needs teamwork and prep (especially with Macros to announce you're the target of disintegration) and you need a tray of greens. And crafting and slotting Rebirth is a huge boon.

And not running around like a loon as if you can outrun disintegration so that healers with AoE heals can heal you (not directed at you... just the loons out there).


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Posted

Debt is not something I even care about. But dying from something that I can't even do a thing about just pisses me off. Being killed by a single attack where none of my own tools or powers can save me just because I'm missing a little bit of health just isn't fun to me. And makes me feel like I'm playing the common rpg and not a superhero mmo.

Slightly offtopic: Being killed in 1 attack like this is a major turn off for me. Too many other games have it, our pvp system has it (along with many other new problems with the current system)

I think someone here already answered the question for this thread. I had heard others complain about this power before and didn't know what it really was until it hit me and so far it kills me everytime it hits me at some point during its ticks.

For the record we do use a macro and when I get hit by it I make sure im out of entanglement range and I simply jump up and down why using the macro hoping the people with healing will see me easier. It seems to work too but I still end up dying from it.


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Posted

Without Disintegration, Anti-Matter's a complete pushover. Obliteration Beam is too slow and weak to kill a league and his own regular attacks aren't up to snuff. It's literally the only thing that can enable him to win the fight. Of course it's going to be incredibly dangerous.

But regardless, it's not infallible.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
Being killed in 1 attack like this is a major turn off for me.
In an encounter designed to be faced by 12-24 people, I'm of the opinion that one person by themselves should expect to be killed in 1 shot, without help from the other people around them. Sorry it's a bummer, but I'm not sure your expectations are reasonable in this case.


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Posted

the only problem i have with it is that it could disqualify your entire league for a badge since there is a badge in the final fight for nobody getting killed


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
In an encounter designed to be faced by 12-24 people, I'm of the opinion that one person by themselves should expect to be killed in 1 shot, without help from the other people around them. Sorry it's a bummer, but I'm not sure your expectations are reasonable in this case.
It's a tick for 99% health I'm not by myself people are healing me. If I have just 5 hitpoints gone when it ticks I'm dead 1 shot rule hardly matters at that point. How is it unreasonable for me expect something better? Why does there need to be an undodgeable attack that can 1 shot me when there are two other massive aoes already that can one shot you if you dont move away.

I got hit by this power 3 times alone in one trial tonight died all 3 of them. Ran out of greens each time. Popping greens while being healed and under rebirth effects. The only people that seem to be surviving that I've noticed are regen scrappers, stone armor and invul.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
That sounds logical.

So, it should be /bugged since the last tick of DoT is supposed to hit for 99%.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Last I heard, Disintegration was supposed to do several ticks of damage, the last one of which was 99%, meaning that the player had to be healed up to absolute full before the last tick. It's somewhat unpleasant, but not really what I'd call cheap, since it's well doable. If the last tick hits for more health than the player has, though... That's a problem, since it more or less requires that every player on the Trial be buffed to their HP cap, and I'm not sure that's even possible.

The way I see this situation, one of two things is happening. Either the player's health capped, but the beam counts the total health before the cap, or the player's health isn't capped but the power is hitting for 99% of the cap and not the current max HP. In both cases, it sounds like a bug.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
I'm trying not to sound like a complainer here but why must such a power be so unforgiving?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
But dying from something that I can't even do a thing about just pisses me off. Being killed by a single attack where none of my own tools or powers can save me just because I'm missing a little bit of health just isn't fun to me. And makes me feel like I'm playing the common rpg and not a superhero mmo.
Other people have already made the point that this is a "team" trial so basically everyone involved is going to have to rely on each other to stay alive. You just can't solo everything in this game.

Frankly your concern over not being able to keep yourself alive based on your "own tools or powers" is starting to sound a little too much like the classic "but I'm supposed to be able to solo anything" Scrapper rant. It always amazes me how much Scrapper players whine when they finally face one of the very few things in the game that can -actually- hurt/kill them and how quickly they assume those things are bugs that need to be fixed. Even Superman had his Kryptonite...

Consider this one of the few times you actually have to think and use some tactics to stay alive. *shrugs*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Last I heard, Disintegration was supposed to do several ticks of damage, the last one of which was 99%, meaning that the player had to be healed up to absolute full before the last tick. It's somewhat unpleasant, but not really what I'd call cheap, since it's well doable. If the last tick hits for more health than the player has, though... That's a problem, since it more or less requires that every player on the Trial be buffed to their HP cap, and I'm not sure that's even possible.

The way I see this situation, one of two things is happening. Either the player's health capped, but the beam counts the total health before the cap, or the player's health isn't capped but the power is hitting for 99% of the cap and not the current max HP. In both cases, it sounds like a bug.
Scrapper HP cap is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2407 ish? Can't remember off the top of my head. If it was hitting him for 99% of that it would have been > 1895. At least I think. Heh.

Are you sure someone hadn't hit you with some +hp in there someplace? Otherwise, it does sound a little buggy. The last tick should be 99% of your total hp at the time you're hit with Disint, right?* If it is higher, that might actually be an issue.




* - Do we know when the attack calculates the dmg for each tick? Say for example I am hit with Disint. Tick 1, Tick 2, (Dull Pain), last tick. Is that last tick calculated based on hp total before or after DP?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
In an encounter designed to be faced by 12-24 people, I'm of the opinion that one person by themselves should expect to be killed in 1 shot, without help from the other people around them. Sorry it's a bummer, but I'm not sure your expectations are reasonable in this case.
Conversely, it might not be unfair to say that in an encounter designed to be faced by 12-24 people, one person's mistake shouldn't be able to ruin it for the whole group.


 

Posted

I have survived many disintegrates thank to Respites. I consider them them within my own power. I did have one trial where I got hit by disintegrate 3 times. I had run out of respites, I imagine that will be a rare circumstance, but in that situation, you are totally relying on outside help (barring having your own heals, of course). Either way, I really like the disintegrate mechanic as it exists, although I might still want an easier way to target an ally who is being disintegrated.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
Other people have already made the point that this is a "team" trial so basically everyone involved is going to have to rely on each other to stay alive. You just can't solo everything in this game.

Frankly your concern over not being able to keep yourself alive based on your "own tools or powers" is starting to sound a little too much like the classic "but I'm supposed to be able to solo anything" Scrapper rant. It always amazes me how much Scrapper players whine when they finally face one of the very few things in the game that can -actually- hurt/kill them and how quickly they assume those things are bugs that need to be fixed. Even Superman had his Kryptonite...

Consider this one of the few times you actually have to think and use some tactics to stay alive. *shrugs*

Superman didn't die or get rushed to a hospital everytime someone had kryptonite either.... Such a bad analogy. With that being said nearly everything in incarnate trials or praetorian related content is lethal to super reflexes. They have piles of accuracy making my only form of self mitigation worthless. So we get our level shifts and our destiny powers and things are slightly better so hopefully those team buffs will help me right? And those buffs do help me. There is no "finally scrappers face one of the very few things ingame that can hurt them", many things ingame especially since going rogue launched are especially lethal to a person that mitigates solely on defense so don't give me that crap.

This is not a solo rant, I don't know how or why you think it is. I'm not soloing I'm on a league, with my group right next to my group fighting the villain. I am using self heals, I am being healed, I am using rebirth, I am still dying. Ok this isn't a solo rant. This power needs to be toned down to a more reasonable level.

You can use tactics to dodge the rest of the stuff antimatter throws at you but if you are missing just the slightest bit of health on that tick you will die. We shouldn't be relying on the 1 shot rule to make something hard. Plain and simple it isn't right, fun or a fair system.

Something has to be adjusted. It's still going to be a very challenging trial without an undodgeable death attack.

Multiple obliteration beams a faster disintegration tick that feels more like being disintegrated. It should be a a rapid dot but certainly not 90+% per tick. It should put a regen debuff on your so you can't auto regen thru it and still have to be healed though. Obviously it would be too easy if I could just regen through it. They can make this hard without a death sentence power.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
Something has to be adjusted. It's still going to be a very challenging trial without an undodgeable death attack.
Sure Superman didn't die or go to the hospital everytime he got a dose of Kryptonite. But it did usually slow him down and make him vulnerable to other things while he was thinking twice about his mistake. I realize that sometimes it feels like it but SR Scrappers are -not- supposed to be able to take on anything in this game without consequences and sound tactics.

Clearly this new trial is currently among the hardest content in the game right now just because it's new and people haven't totally "figured it out" yet. That doesn't automatically make it unfair or broken. Rest assured in a few months time (and especially when we all have access to our top level Omega-like Incarnate abilities) this trial is going to be considered as routinely doable as all the others.

Remember this trial is being balanced on the expectation of fully slotted Incarnates doing them in the long run - it's only natural that it be almost too hard now. Consider it something we have to grow into.


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Posted

Quick question, was anyone on your trial using the rebirth +hp T4? Because that provides about 5% perma additional HP, which could be the difference your experiencing. Lemme do some quick math here and find out:

1895.08 is about 104% higher then your normally capped hp of 1807, so in order for that last tick to really be about 99% of your hp, you had to have about 5% more HP then you normally have, or about 90.35 more HP. If in the event you had that additional hp, putting your total at 1897.35, then the 1895.08 damage would be exactly 99.8% of your HP.

Granted, you probably have slightly more then 1807 hp, but not quite 1808 hp, so the decimals may be off slightly, but that could explain the issue your having. Someone popped a t4 +HP rebirth, and gave you an additional 5% HP.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
Quick question, was anyone on your trial using the rebirth +hp T4? Because that provides about 5% perma additional HP, which could be the difference your experiencing. Lemme do some quick math here and find out:

1895.08 is about 104% higher then your normally capped hp of 1807, so in order for that last tick to really be about 99% of your hp, you had to have about 5% more HP then you normally have, or about 90.35 more HP. If in the event you had that additional hp, putting your total at 1897.35, then the 1895.08 damage would be exactly 99.8% of your HP.

Granted, you probably have slightly more then 1807 hp, but not quite 1808 hp, so the decimals may be off slightly, but that could explain the issue your having. Someone popped a t4 +HP rebirth, and gave you an additional 5% HP.
I have both rebirth t4 radial and core I used core this last time for the extra hp. Others on the team had one or the other.

For that above comment these people aren't pugs that I've been doing this trial with and were all t4 slotted out. No bit of practice is really going to matter for when I just happen to not be at full health when a tick happens. And again really why does it have to tick for so high and rely on the 1 shot rule. It should tick lower and tick more often like a fire dot. So its still hard but not an outright death sentence.


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Posted

As others pointed out (and for some reason is being ignored by some) there MIGHT be a bug related to this, that's it not working the way it's supposed to. Until that can be confirmed or de-confirmed there's no point arguing about whether this is working as intended for a trial of 12-24 people. It may very well NOT be doing what it's supposed to.


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