_Tundra_

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Bit cheeky but I can't really bare the thought of reading all this. was the conclusion yes or no?

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Lucky for you, the thread is holographic. Read any tiny portion of it and you'll find some people who swear they can get by without Taunt and others who find it nearly essential.

Read the whole thread and you'll find exactly the same thing but get a headache in the process.

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...for a DM/SR scrapper?

[/ QUOTE ]Although Aid Self is nice, you should also bear in mind that Soul Drain will also be contributing a 5% ToHit debuff (like your other attacks) which also contributes a fair bit to survivability. For most (all?) other secondaries I'd skip SD, but with SR it works very well - I picked it as soon as it was available and never looked back (slotting 2xAcc, 3xHeal, 1xEndRed).

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I assume you mean Siphon Life?

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You assume right

The rest should make sense, though...

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...although many people don´t seem to realize this. I don´t get it why people slot a toggle with a cost of 0.24 endu per second with EndRdx (sometimes even with more than one) before they consider putting a sixth slot for EndRdx in their attacks which mostly translate to roughly 1 endu/second each.

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Mostly because there aren't many other things you can put in most toggles, I suspect... It's also deeply ingrained accepted wisdom - which is (by itself) rarely a good way to make decisions.

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...for a DM/SR scrapper?

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I took both on Late and wouldn't be without either. By the very late game DC is probably the less useful of the two for me (I have Conserve power as well) but it's a nice way to pick myself up after Elude.

Although Aid Self is nice, you should also bear in mind that Soul Drain will also be contributing a 5% ToHit debuff (like your other attacks) which also contributes a fair bit to survivability. For most (all?) other secondaries I'd skip SD, but with SR it works very well - I picked it as soon as it was available and never looked back (slotting 2xAcc, 3xHeal, 1xEndRed).

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But it only effects 10 enemies at a time, which means that if for some reason you're in one of the few situations where spawns last an unusually long time (eg. DE when multiple Cairns have been dropped, Nemesis with stacked Vengance, CoT with overlapping Acc debuffs) sooner or later some of them won't be taunted.

[/ QUOTE ]If you and the foes stay in the same place, yes. However, if you move around you can keep all 17 taunted, continuously.

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Well, it's up to you how you tank, of course...

But for me being in one place and keeping as many enemies as possible close around me is a large part of the point of Tanking them. A tool that helps me do that is better than a workaround that requires constantly moving around IMO.

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But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves

[/ QUOTE ]And yet I continously do that with CE...go figure.

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I'm sure you can gather the aggro cap around you and hold their attention for a short while with no trouble at all, and it's rare that you need to hold the aggro right up to the cap for any length of time, since they should start being arrested pretty soon...

But it only effects 10 enemies at a time, which means that if for some reason you're in one of the few situations where spawns last an unusually long time (eg. DE when multiple Cairns have been dropped, Nemesis with stacked Vengance, CoT with overlapping Acc debuffs) sooner or later some of them won't be taunted. Still doesn't mean you have to have Taunt, of course, particularly since Ice has Icicles available as well. I really don't see how you can argue that adding an extra autohit taunt to your available tools makes aggro holding anything other than more reliable, though.

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Ice and Inv have auto hit taunt auras, so I haven't had this problem.

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So does Stone - it's only the damage component that needs a hit roll for MudPots and the Taunt seems to travel with the Slow/Immob which still autohits.

But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves, so there's plenty of scope for an extra auto-hit AoE Taunt in that context.

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Chilling embrace is great also for those that do manage to stand up, especially as it is -dmg aswell as -recharge and -spd.


[/ QUOTE ]Wasn't the -damage only for the tank version?

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If it is then they've got the text wrong on the blaster version. Haven't actually tested it.

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There was -damage on it last time I tested (a bit after I6) but I haven't had my Ice/Ice out recently so if it's been changed in a patch since I might have missed it.

Don't recall seeing it in patch notes, though.

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/fire is nice in teams with fire/ but again not uber, i imagine elec/fire melee blasters would do bonkers AoE and PBAoE dmg, but again, their survivability and end doesnt compare to that of elec/elec

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The PBAoE damage, in particular, is insane. Survivability depends rather a lot on the team - but a good Tank is helpful for getting plenty enemies into AoE range too and makes a great combo.

FSC, Combustion, Ball Lightning and SC make a nice solid AoE attack chain when Hasten is up which just chews trhough enything in the mission. In Hasten gaps I throw in a few extra Lightning Bolts on the harder targets. Very little survives long enough to get End drained by a second SC...

Consume has improved the End situation a bit (although it's still a very End hungry build). Voltaic Sentinel works well with this guy - it follows me into the Tanks herd to chuck out even more damage in a nice End efficient manner. The two damage auras add some nice extra DoT, but they aren't really all that necessary most of the time since things die so quickly from the normal attack chain. Their best use is slightly softening up things which are getting missed due to the AoE cap by the other attacks.

I'm undecided on Burn. It's very in-concept for this guy and still provides great damage when there are controllers around (which is quite often) but obviously it's a bit tricky to use.

Elec/Fire does make for a very fun build with a really colourful fireworks show of special effects, though!

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FWIW (not much, I realise...) I've never understood why Power Boost effects Heals at all. The other power effect that directly impacts HP (Damage) is considered a Primary effect and not boosted - why is this not also the case for Heals, which modifies exactly the same characteristic in the opposite direction?

[/ QUOTE ]Because in the game engine, the opposite of damage is damage resistance rather than healing, for some bizarre reason.

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Not a very bizarre reason - damage buffs are the opposite of resistance in the game engine since both just apply a multiplier to damage (>1 for buffs, <1 for RES).

Damage healed is the opposite of damage caused, although obviously not handled by the same variable in the game engine. My point being that if moving HP in one direction is a primary effect, moving them in the other direction should be as well.

FWIW (not much, I realise...) I've never understood why Power Boost effects Heals at all. The other power effect that directly impacts HP (Damage) is considered a Primary effect and not boosted - why is this not also the case for Heals, which modifies exactly the same characteristic in the opposite direction?

There used to be a -Acc on Granite. It was removed in I2 (or I3, I forget) and replaced with a -Dam because it was realised that -Acc was a penalty to holding aggro and not just to damage dealing (bear in mind that there was no auto-hit AoE Taunt back then...). You'll be able to find the old patch notes on the US knowledge base if you really want the source - but it's much easier just to check your accuracy whilst in GA by running HeroStats as Filth suggests. FWIW, I think people just notice miss-streaks more in GA as you spend so much more time waiting for attacks to recharge.

Warcry and some hero-builders are notoriously out of date on things like this.

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For one, don't take storm, even though it's a great set it has zero synergy with elec (no, the drain of the cloud doesn't count )

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I don't agree. Both are energy based damage so you will get bonuses on the same mobs from your lightning storm and your blasts. Also the fire and forget nature of voltaic sentinel meshes very well with the fire and forget lightning storm, both your two biggest sources of damage over time and fantastic damage per unit endurance. Also it has a snipe, which is easy as pie to work into your attack chain as the mobs are accuracy debuffed and bobbing about on the edge of your hurricane. You don't get interrupted if something attacks you, only if it hits you.

The only thing I can see that doesn't have great synergy is that short circuit is pbaoe and you don't want to be running up to mobs that are not accuracy debuffed to use it and your accuracy debuff comes from hurricane. I didnt' take it for this reason but I took charged bolts, lightning bolt, ball lightning, zapp, voltaic sentinel and thunderous blast and find it a great set for a stormie. I might work in Aim on the next respec to use with the nuke.

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Without wanting to be too picky, the above quote wasn't from me, it was from MaX

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Dark has a hold to stack with it, but that's about it.
Rad... CC is a hold, EMP has hold and some end drain, that's about it.


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The big advantage both Dark and Rad bring with them is a -ToHit toggle that will allow you to get in close enough to use Short Circuit on a regular basis - the big factor lacking from Kinetics, although of course a team compensates for that well. That's great for End draining, and you also have two decent AoE attacks available instead of just Ball Lightning the two of them do very close to the same damage, so slotting SC 3xDam,3xEndDrain will leave you with a nice damaging AoE attack chain. Rad works especially well here as the -Def from Rad Infection gives you even more excuse not to slot SC for Accuracy (it doesn't need it anyway, though...)

Should in principle be OK for either weekend, but would prefer 18-20th.

Unfortunately I can't make any promises at this point as there's always the chance of being called away at short notice, but since August is usually machine month at the synchrotron my chances of being able to make it are pretty good!

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Fire Secondary is mostly PbAoEs.

This makes it bad for a blapping set but good for team support in a good team so long as you have a tank keeping aggro or a controller holding. I wouldn't be suprised if a /Fire could wipe out a spawn without even worrying about their primary within one attack chain if someone bunched them up enough.

IIRC the AoEs are Combustion ( large ), FSC ( small ), Blazing Aura ( small ), Consume ( large ) , Burn ( small ) and Hot Feet(large).

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In my experience, FSC normally hits all the same targets as Consume - it seems to have a much bigger AoE than its animation implies.

As to the purpose of /Fire, it helps me blow **** up more quickly. What more do you need?

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also 1 more thing, wot power is there that ive not listed to get at 35, seeing as thunder clap covers sdisorient and steamy mist with 3 def (all) and manuevers and hover with 1 def(all) makes me a little harder to hit, specially with hurricanes tohitdebuff 3 slotted


[/ QUOTE ]I'd take gale or the similiar power from sonic, the cone damage power from sonic, or amplify.

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On my Sonic/Sonic, Howl (the cone attack) is probably my most used attack - AoE damage + AoE -Res is a fantastic combination. It should be even better for a Stormy as you have the mob positioning tools to make sure you're always hitting plenty of enemies. Personally I'd take it earlier - but when you do get it it's certainly worthwhile.

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I went on test and tried it out.

It does the twice the same initial damage as Fire Blast ( half lethal, half fire ) but has the same number of burn ticks.

Incidentally one weird thing I noticed was if I use multiple Fire Attacks in succession the damage goes up. It seems that the DoT ticks cause -res to fire or something.

I've never really looked at the fire damage that closely before. I wonder if this also happens on live.

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Out of interest, you weren't taking damage at the same time were you? I know I rarely get off an attack cycle from my /Fire blaster without taking a fair bit - and Defiance boosts the DoT part of the attack too.

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However the only powers which have a noticeable drain are Short Circuit and the snipe ( forgotten what it is called ).

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Thunderous Blast has a substantial End drain and -Recovery too. Although it's primary purpose is damage, leaving anything left standing drained is a nice side effect.

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I don't suppose you know how long ago he did this? Enemies in Invincible missions are +2-3, so until I7 the DEF toggles would have contributed far less than they do now.

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I've read the thread, the original post was made in the last few days. Definately under I7.

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Could you link to the thread? I don't find it terribly surprising if he was soloing, though. Plenty of Blasters can solo on Invincible, after all, with no defences to speak of and less HP. High DPS is enough for soloing, with care.

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When ever I see someone praising the SR set it is rarely (if ever) about how much they dodge and duck, but it usualy goes about on how their HP dropped to half and the slidding resistances kept them alive.

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So you've never used Elude, or heard of anyone using it? By far the best damage mitigation power in any scrapper secondary IMO, and it's all about the dodging.

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I was browsing the US forums and another thread was made about a guy telling how he was doing his Invincible set missions without his toggles. He noticed once he forgot to put them on and the mission was almost over, so he did a few more without them and.. no biggie.

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I don't suppose you know how long ago he did this? Enemies in Invincible missions are +2-3, so until I7 the DEF toggles would have contributed far less than they do now.

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Extra defense would still be fairly useful against enemies with tohit buffs or -defense in their attacks in PVE (Nemesis, plus anything with Bladed Weapons) as well as practically vital for survival in PvP against players with Focussed Accuracy, Rage or multiple layers of Tactics. And 2-3 Extra slots for defbuffs in one attack isn't that high a price to pay for that extra protection...

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Extra DEF is very useful, but I think the extra that will be gained by slotting Parry is of minimal use - it's very easily stacked if you desparatly want to increase its bonus, after all.

SR scrappers running all three toggles are very well protected from DEF debuffs these days, and almost all of them outside toggle debuffs have too short a duration to worry about them stacking heavily.

I don't PvP much with my BS scrapper, but I'd have thought that the various disadvantges of Parry made it a pretty poor PvP power - the combination of reducing your burst damage and only providing DEF against melee and lethal damage would seem to weigh pretty heavily against it. I'll be interested to know if you find it useful, though.

Very nice PvE power and I'd certainly have it in the build, but I can't see how slotting it for DEF is needed - one slot if you're really paranoid about DEF debuffs, maybe. Making sure those two slots are available for Health will be much more use, much more of the time.

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Slot parry more, it wants 3 defbuff and 1 damage/recharge. I suggest you get the slots out of swift and helth.
Aid self doesn't need that much IndRdx IMO, I'd swap one or two for end/recharge.

All in all, pretty solid build, although you might want to pick one more attack.

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Good advice for any other secondary... but for SR, with the way DEF now works in I7 he will reach the effective cap of 45% DEF for PvE with one use of unslotted Parry. More +Def enhancements in it might help whilst levelling, but SR(toggle) + SR(passive) + Combat Jumping + Parry(unslotted) will bring him to 45% DEF.

That's assuming Parry is still a 15% DEF buff (I think it is), but even if it's dropped a bit you almost certainly don't need three DEF slots in it.

<edit> I'd also never suggest that an SR scrapper take slots out of Health - they're incredibly valuable. The ones in Swift can afford to go, though.

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He can take the slots out of health if he has aid self..

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Well, he could... but all the time Health is keeping you going is time you don't have to interrupt your attack chain to fire off a Heal - making for a more effective scrapper.

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Slot parry more, it wants 3 defbuff and 1 damage/recharge. I suggest you get the slots out of swift and helth.
Aid self doesn't need that much IndRdx IMO, I'd swap one or two for end/recharge.

All in all, pretty solid build, although you might want to pick one more attack.

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Good advice for any other secondary... but for SR, with the way DEF now works in I7 he will reach the effective cap of 45% DEF for PvE with one use of unslotted Parry. More +Def enhancements in it might help whilst levelling, but SR(toggle) + SR(passive) + Combat Jumping + Parry(unslotted) will bring him to 45% DEF.

That's assuming Parry is still a 15% DEF buff (I think it is), but even if it's dropped a bit you almost certainly don't need three DEF slots in it.

<edit> I'd also never suggest that an SR scrapper take slots out of Health - they're incredibly valuable. The ones in Swift can afford to go, though.

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isn't the minium chance to get hit 7.5% now? (read that somehwere) (since i7 that is)

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It depends... the minimum chance for an even level minion to hit is 5% - flooring the first part of the ToHit calculation with 45% Def, and then applying no Accuracy bonus.

Everything tougher than that, either higher level or higher rank, will get a progressivly higher minimum chance to hit. eg. a +1 boss gets an accuracy bonus of 1.1 for being +1 level and 1.3 for being a boss, so its minimum chance to hit is:
0.05 * 1.1 * 1.3 = 0.0715 (or 7.15%, if you prefer)

for a +3 boss its:
0.05 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 0.0845 (or 8.45%)

However, unless you're running Elude, MoG or heavily stacked Parry etc. you'll be better off than before under most circumstances as most of the time your Def doesn't floor enemies accuracy, but will now be closer to doing so more of the time.