abnormal_joe

The decision to go tank or brute (or scrapper for that matter) comes up pretty regularly.
What it comes down to is this....

You play a tank for the control it gives you over the spawns.

A scrapper or a brute will be survivable enough for most if not all the content, particularly when well built or heavily IOed.
A tank will do enough damage under the same constraints.
The key difference is that tanks have na ability to control the spawns that the other three melee ATs (don't forget stalkers) with never quite match.

Sorry Munkilord but you don't speak for everyone. I've read all 44 pages of this thread so far and I see a lot of displeasure for no apparent reason. I'm willing to take your word that you are not anti-inherent fitness, but that doesn't mean that everyone else shares your precise view.

I cannot speak to the vast majority of the in game population. I can speak for the coalition which I help to lead (one of the largest in this game fwiw). Veng is incredibly popular pick already and is likely to be nigh universal once we have 3 more free picks to use.

Since this thread was originally regarding all the announcements and Q&A comments I would like to return to one of the points we seem to have forgotten.

"There will be 'casual paths and new features'"

Is it possible that we will finally be getting a non-combat way to level our characters?

Failure to agree with a minorities vision is not "fault" or a "mistake" it is a simple business choice. You have to spend your assets in such a way as to please the majority. All of us take our turn being in the minority.

In point of fact we will be getting some extra slots. The base slots in the four new inherents. While folks tend to focus on slotting sets in the 4-6 slot range there is actually a lot that can be done with base slots and IOs.

All the defense based tanks will be picking up aidself.
All the tanks that need a bit more rech will be picking up leadership for the 3 extra IO mules and teaming utility.
The Dark Armor tanks will get presence because 3-4 fears is just plain fun.
I will be taking damage auras asap to speed things up in the low levels.
Some tanks will be getting rez/recall because lets face it I will be the last one standing if it gets really ugly.

Not wanting inherent fitness is like not wanting free sex*. I'm sure some would make that choice but I will never understand why.


*now watch 100 posters attempt to craft bizarre scenarios to justify their nerdrage.

I run two different tanks for the purpose, a fire/ss/pyre specced for speed and damage and a shield/elec/pyre specced for speed, damage, and soft cap.
The shield tank is substantially more durable and somewhat faster. And I am lazy and run +0x8 no boss. The cash from the defeats is nothing compared to the drops, and when you can BU, Lightning Rod, Shield Charge, Fireball, Thunder Strike every spawn the drops come quick.

Elec melee felt very aoe focused to me, which is good for a aggro focused tank.
Ice can mature fairly early if you can afford to get some recharge in the build. EA while oft praised for its recovery boosting is overlooked for its impressive defense boosting. The combat numbers look small until you realize that it is per foe, enhanceable, and on a fairly short timer. Every spawn for your alpha is easy, double stacked is far from difficult. The rest of a typed defense build you know well enough.
For a dark armor tank I personally think that your mez toggles are key until you are ready to add the defense later on. Endurance issues can be solved but not quickly or cheaply.

I think folks tend to avoid it for three reasons.

1.They don't realize the EA is a a great way to alpha a spawn and is more important as a +def power than it is as late in the fight recovery power.

2.They don't quite know how to effectively use Hibernate, which is a great tier 9 if you slot a bit for taunt duration and time it properly.

3.Perhaps most important, it totally obscures any costume you might have.

Yep, but I hear floors are high in humility.

I would recommend fire armor or shield armor.
Both allow you to stack ridiculous amounts of damage.
I have a fire/ss that could self cap his damage with the old FE and does even better now thanks to the burn/fe changes.
Shield is just as good and slightly sturdier if you have the budget.

I know that I taunt or aoe the front of a spawn as I sail over their heads to land in the back of the spawn. Getting aggro for me has less to do with the ability of the aura and more to do with properly judging when your team mates are going to alpha.

For me a tank is not a slightly tougher scrapper or brute, but rather a superb controller who has the personal mitigation to survive the damage intended to fell an entire team.
This means that aggro is my first and main focus.
However I see no reason for any AT in this game to ignore their personal damage production.
IMHO a tank can and should defeat foes on their own. If you are struggling to defeat spawns solo you need to take another look at your build, you probably sacrificed to much for a level of survivability you will seldom if ever need.
Of course others play tanks for entirely different reasons, my opinions are merely that.

There is no doubt that IOs and Invuln go together like PB&J.
But then again what armor set doesn't? Amongst my many IO tank experiments I count

A wp/sm with either nigh capped resists or typed defense to all dmg types but toxic.
A fire/ss that self caps his own damage with ease
A soft capped to all invuln/dm
A soft cap +hp capped(well used to be anyway) shield/axe
A max recharge ice/mace that blows the softcap away and skipped fitness completely.
A wicked little da/db with monsterous aoe damage
A stone/fire that retains only the -jump penatly in granite
A elec/em with capped, or nearly capped, resists to all.
A shield/elec with softcap, huge rech, and self damage cap
A stupidly high recharge fire/ice

Most of these tanks are a match for the invuln in survivability, many are a match for aggro control, many have similar if not better soloability and damage output.
While I am in no way disappointed in invuln I can't in all honesty claim that it is superior to the other armor sets.

In this issue tankers got.

1.a buff to hp making them considerably more durable than any other melee AT.

2.a new dps buffing inherent (the theme of this thread incidently) that helps considerably with low levels but remains relevant till 50.

3.a monster series of buffs to fire armor (though this is not tanker specific)

4.access to redside where our services have been much desired for a long time.

I see nothing here but win. The only ability we have not been given is a forum verion of the fire fighter backpack for when J_B shows up. Did anyone happen to keep the supersoaker version of the assault rifle? Oh wait tanker forums, never mind.

Two things.

First good luck on your quest, I actually did the same thing last year(need to add the new melee set now). It was a fun trip. I made a guide based on it, might be cool to compare notes.

Second I would consider taking that kb cone. You can slot it with a few kinetic blasts to cover your KB hole and have a nice little oopsie power for when you bite off a little too much.

Interesting responses so far.
I totally overlooked the potential appeal of low impact graphics, since I play my tanks zoomed out and panned up for a better view of the spawn dynamics. I can see how that might be a factor for some.
I can sort of see how some might be hooked on the performance of the set in its current form once IOs are factored in As mentioned I have a fully IOed invuln/dm so I do have some idea what he is capable of :P.
I'm a bit surprised that the names of the powers are such a big consideration. I tend to ignore those rationalizing the powers in terms that suit my own alt's backstory.
I suppose the ability to essentially ignore s/l damage is something of a big deal. But, does your love affair with the set remain when running the huge amount of exotic damage foes in the later hero game? I tend to run a lot of Shard, RWZ, old Maria/Tina etc. S/L does little under those conditions.
Would you be tempted to switch sets if another option came up without concept constraints and WP's anemic taunt aura?

<---disagrees

The brute version of Evasion has a taunt the scrapper version (which I assume Dawn was referring to) does not.