Airman_America

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MoG is a fantastic power, even the way it is now. Despite limitations as described above, if you have any trouble with PvE as a regen then the problem is with you and your tactics, not the powerset.

Epistropheus 50 DM/Regen

[/ QUOTE ]


But, I will give you credit for finally omitting the false claim that MoG goes against the regen set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find arguments like this as disturbing as folks who think "Illegal" aliens should be allowed to obtain "legal" drivers licenses. I do not see the logic in it. MoG is to Regen as Hair is to a Lizard.

It is a twist, a reverse, I can think of no other set in CoX that offers such a situation so as to totally throw your toon into a complete opposite. Whoever thought this up must have been gifted with wry humor, on drugs, or was asked to design a power in a complete vacuum.

MoG lasts too long since I4. If it ever offered PSI protection, I do not know... that has been an argument for as long as I recall, however, it was made clear a few issues ago that it did not. All I know is that it is very situational, a pain in the neck for teams, and cannot help but cause folks to grimace as they click it.

I have re-selected it for 2 reasons. One is to add I/Os for regeration. The second is... I cannot think of one. Too many villains late game use Psionics. That means I use it very very little. Other tier 9 powers have more function than this.

My robotic/force field MM is really fun to play. The effects of my bubbles coupled with the ranged ability of the robots leaves me with a feeling that I am an Artillery Battery. I have heavily gone for defensive powers to boost any area that will accept it as well. In the end, few things hit me, and even fewer hit me twice. My artillery mows down every single enemy type he has encountered. Absolutely awesome combo set with excellent synergy. The other nice thing about the set is you never feel like you are solo... even when you are.

IMO some PvP things are not exactly balanced. There seems a twin pole effect of what is good in PvE is not always good on PvP. Further, there are some players who have found ways to defeat almost everything, either by team or individual... they are just that good at PvP.

I look at Ice, Ice is so powerful in PvP, yet, Fire does what Ice cannot in PvE. Ice almost always detoggles too. Why? I don't know... even Crey Tanks detoggle stuff to the point of "why bother to turn it on". Does fire detoggle like that? No.

Now, lets look at Radiation... nasty, it can bring a Regen to his knees so fast it is unreal. Now, add Ice to Radiation and you have a combo that even a 6 year old can win with. What happens is that the combo is brought together in a Controller who has containment, a Jack Frost, and a tiny room and there is no excape - except as a faceplant. Next add the guys who are so hyper they are moving like the wind all over the place jumping, SS, flying, they have every move you can imagine. Add a "bully" type combo'd with "smack talk" and you have a reason to want to grab your monitor and dash it to the ground.

Yes, some builds are overpowered IMO. Detoggle is a major issue though. Even though it was fixed a few issues ago, it still remains a major power with Ice builds.

Ice, Energy, Radiation are the 3 true killers in PvP. Everything else is second or a poor third.

Now, I am not sure there is a way, but, if there was a chance, a way that even a weak build could "accidently" defeat a super uber PvP demi god... you know... lucky shot to the head? David and Goliath? Just a thought. What I am saying is that there should never be "I Win Automatically" builds. There should always be a risk - no matter how super uber you build your toon with the most expensive, bestest, number crunched, fast fingered, build you can possibly imagine with perfect attack chains, team speak, tweaked gamer computer, and Fiber Optic connecton right into a CoH Server!

Now that would be more Comic Book like! Yep, there should be a real possibility that David could defeat Goliath.

Well, that is my opinion for what it is worth...

Camo! Like always! TYVM!

Well, it does come down to a very difficult badge for most to obtain, and impossible for some. The badge requirements need a looking at again by the Devs IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll give you an example of a place where you wouldn't heal as a last resort but a first.

In the kinetics set, ID is a very nice resistance buff. But it's a very short term buff and not the best idea to try and keep a group buffed unless that's all you want to do. However, between Transfusion and your early debuff Siphon Power, a Kinetics defender can be a very strong defender despite this set being know more for damage and end.

Here, Siphon Power isn't enough by itself. But a liberal use of *SHOCK* a heal, is in MANY ways the best way to mitigate.

Is healing always the best idea? No. Will it decrease in necessity as levels increase? Yes.

But it's not a last resort for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]


Let me add one important point to what Evil said.

I have 2 builds with Kinetics in them. One is a Controller and the other is a Corruptor.

Last night I, as a 48 Corruptor, was teamed with a 50 Stone Brute. We had a team of 4, but, our sidekicks needed to attend to matters in real life. The 2 of us were left to face the next story in the Brute's arc... which had an AV (yes we were doing what hero's would call "invincible").

We were doing "ok". It was a long long fight and the damage was not so bad by this one to require heals for the most part. HOWEVER, and I am not sure why, except I had not played a kinetics in a while, I forgot a key aspect...

I started to hit heal as fast as it came up! I forgot... -REGEN!

When I started to do that his health went to "zippo" quickly and we won! WOW WE WON... and all thanks to that heal that is actually an attack!

Some Corruptor/Defender/Controller "heals" are far more than that. Keep that in mind always! O2 is not a joke, it's value is later and though it does not come as a power that requires a hit, it has a serious value in protecting against Sappers, Mu, and Carnies! Twilight Grasp is far more than the big heal it is, it seriously affects the targets accuracy.

That is why they can "miss" or "hit", or are so called "weak"... they are an attack with serious secondary effects that should be studied.

Rain of Fire is SUPERIOR when used correctly. I use it all the time!

1. Tight Rooms - It is very hard for mobs to escape it.
2. After the Big AoEs - Yes, you reserve it and fire it toward the end of the battle to finish the whole mess quickly.
3. Too Much Aggro - You are in trouble, you are solo, you have attracted too much aggro because the Tank has lost it, your powers are slowed on recharge... use FIRE RAIN OF FIRE and give yourself some room! Better the mob is scattered, afraid, than focused only on you! Now you can escape, come back to fight another day.

I use RoF so often that when I respec'd out of it once I immediately missed it. I got it back the first opportunity I got.

Let me add that my 50 Fire/Fire Blaster is not a Blapper. I have no swords, NOTHING melee orientated - on purpose! Too often, growing him, I witnessed the faceplanted Blapper, yeah sure, people jump out of airplanes, they race motorcycles on city streets, they push limits of survival... what is that? Something like a Type 1 Personality? Whatever... I am not one of those. I think, I plan, I like TACTICS! and not the Tactics of "lets run in and beat on things and hope we survive". Therefore I purposely limit myself so I do not even think about that type of foolishness.

Rain of Fire is one of my favorite weapons and I use it often!

My 2 Influence.

As stated above, one of the BIG failures of teams - and not Tanks is the Team.

1. Stolen Aggro - Yep, you tell the team "I am herding to here", you run in, and as you return you see some Scrapper or Blaster standing in the middle of hall with Milk and Cookies to greet the incoming host.

The Result is a scattered mob, the team split between the original plan and saving the "waiter".

2. Knock Back - Yes, I am not talking about intelligent players, players knocking an NPC toward a Tank. I am talking about mindless blaster powers that simply blow villains in all directions. This includes Controller pets, Blasters/Defenders using Nova against Purple mobs - knowing they cannot defeat them, and knuckle headed Blasters who simply insist on playing the Scrapper... instead of using their melee tools as defensive weapons.

3. The Uninformed - who run about like a little schoolgirl with a giant monster chasing them. For them I teach the Cardinal Rule for Squishies! "JUMP THE TANK" and stay in a straight line so the bad guy runs right into them!

4. I AM FINALLY UBER! - Yes, the late game Controller feels they have finally come of age. I know... I was one too. Yes, you hold, you overcome everything... and you also fire your control early causing the mob to be scattered all over the room. This leaves a Tank attempting to keep aggro on a scattered mob that now will not move. This is a bad situation for Squishies and causes panic among good Tankers. Controllers need to learn to "Control" their ability to want to take control.

FINALLY! COMMUNICATION!

Yes, it is very important for the Tank to give a READY! when they are sure that they have aggro.

Remember that... READY! got it? And make sure you communicate that slowly, with patience, to the team and that they all understand to wait... here... for the READY!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know, normally I'd be all over a thread like this like a hot bag of chips.

But 2 weeks ago, I dropped Burn for the last time to make room for Tough.

Suffice to say: For tankers, especially the tankers able to REALLY leverage it, this makes burn much more viable. With my previous slotting, burn would have been up every 12 seconds, and every 9 seconds under Hasten. It would have become part and parcel of my AOE attack chain.

I might eventually toy with dropping Fire Blast for it, but right now my single target damage is already suffering.

I feel bad for Brutes, and yet, thank them for demonstrating that even with an in-built AOE immob, a 40 second timer on burn is unnecessary. Good luck with the change, hope it doesn't hash your play up too badly. ; . ;

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding, of course, right? You had a fire tank without Tough?

[/ QUOTE ]

I ran, like a bazillion, respecs on my Fire/Ice Tank on the test server. Over time, I have concluded that this Tank, without Acrobatics and Tough, was very weak and just a bit better than a Scrapper. I only say a bit better in that the build has more resistance, but, that is mitigated by the fact that the Tank deals less damage (dps) than a Scrapper. In the end, it was like running a Scrapper into a large mob of Reds... the odds of survival were very very "dicey". You can do it, but "Wheeeee dogie" the debt!

I like the new Burn rate. It is fun to actually make my Tank work again like the past.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When do you use MoG? I've tried using it when people say use it and it fails. I'm not making this up. This power has no reasonable use I am able to ascertain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Argh. I typed out a response to this last night. I just... didn't... post my response.

I'll summarize my lengthy post, this time without flair. Don't laugh, but when I had and used MoG, IH was still a toggle and ED hadn't even come around. So, bear that in mind. Also bear in mind that my claws/regen wasn't optimized. I didn't have those nifty pool powers that supposedly made regens "uber". I didn't have DP and Reconstruction six-slotted. I'd say my regen was spec'd a lot more offensively. As such, I died more than I saw other regens. So, since I had more opportunities for a second chance to steal the show, I used MoG more often. Sometimes I died in MoG. But, every time I used it, I lived just a little bit longer than I would have otherwise.

My most memorable ever "Moment of Glory" actually involved Rularuu. If I'd known they ate right through MoG back then, I probably wouldn't have hit it, but... it was one of the first times I ever fought them. So, anyways, the tank dies and the blaster and defender follow, then the rest of our eight-man team, with me having the least agro because of stealth. At half health, I hit MoG. I already know I don't like the -recharge of the eyes, so I luckily take them out first. I managed to survive the rest of that encounter (and we wiped really early into it... overconfident fire tank). Felt pretty glorious to me.

On a completely unrelated note... thank you for reminding me that Snappy and his cronies are all archery. I will gracefully skip fighting him at an even level if he blew through your MoG, which has almost twice the defense of my Retsu that easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

My most "Memorable" MoG moment was in early I3. Here I was, Level 49 (well, I was 50, I just did not level for some weeks because of a misunderstanding about the new Kheldians but that is another story) and teamed with 50s fighting Malta and everything was purple to me. Well, the first faceplant was running double dull pain, with Accolades that afforded me 15% more health, IH going full time... over 2500 Hit Points, and a Gunfighter 3 shots me. I can still hear the BAM BAM BAM. Don't begin to tell me we were over powered. Most folks just were suffering from a Biblical ailment called Envy and they wanted to be able to snuff out Regens in the Arena.

So, I cut into MoG. Lot of good that did. Malta robots are still hitting me despite having it slotted with 3 Defense SOs. Faceplant. I fire it up again and bingo... 3 shots from a Gunfighter faceplants me.

After that I did a respec, I determined I might just want to try the formula that allows full time MoG. I did not think this out very well. Late game missions are not all Malta Sappers you know. After some encounters with Carnies... well... MoG fell into disuse.

Personally? I think the game made a mistake taking some of the extreme stuff away like Perma MoG... you found out very quickly it was not such an uber power, well maybe in PvP, but I never really used it there.

It took me a long time, and I mean long, before I got the guts up to drop this dusty power. I so often forgot it was there and often remembered it as I was tumbling toward some carpet, well, I decided to drop it in I7. I guess my big fear was hitting it only to find out the enemy has a power that simply made the power a mockery.

MoG is lame. It drives teammates nutz by making them think you are in trouble. It drives you nutz because so many things eat at your low health. It made you run for the hills from I4 to I8 as it wore off and could not do anything about your health for 15 seconds - unless you hit a green pill (if you had any left). I remember when I slotted for Perma MoG and a friend told me "you did what? That is just plain sick!"

Then there was the issue of MoG actually not wearing off. I remember hitting it, out of boordom, watching it wear off, healing one or two ticks... I tested this several times and reported it here. I noted the Red Names made a comment about it. I wonder how many Regens faceplanted due to that issue?

Well, neither of my 50 Regens have MoG, and to be honest, I have not missed it one bit.

Start the chant...

Exchange Force of Nature for Moment of Glory!

Blasters get sustained Defiance before they faceplant! They will love it, my Blaster would love it!

Regen 'finally' would have some resistance through FoN! We could fight our little hearts out like madmen for 3 minutes! That is what I call a REAL level 38 power!

So chant "FoN for MoG... Blaster and Regen go Yippie!"

Lets bump this up for the newbies on their Christmas Break.

Happy Holidays!

I vote NO.

NO BIG RED BALL!

You know why? Threads like this caused the Paragon Dance Party to be deleted for the new Pocket D.

Nice huh?

Calls that:
1. I wanna go.
2. I wanna relax there.
3. I wanna hang out with friends.
4. I wanna...

Resulted in...

An empty Pocket D (excepting events) and the same guys hanging out in Atlas Park under the statue... dancing... chatting... and lagging up the place with silly broadcasts.

The point is, make this ball, take time from other issues, and you will (I promise) see it unused in a month and forgotten in 6 months.

Making a zone red ball will simply be another something that will be a YAY thing for a little bit and then become an annoyance later.

If they ever make something like this, I hope it is for a seasonal event only like Halloween or Christmas.

Otherwise, we need so many other things like TF fixes/updates, Mission fixes/updates, and of course... the quarterly Regen Nerf.

Nice Guide, but, I have to disagree with you on Speed Boost. Speed Boost increases recharge, which means that heavy endurance users will be attacking more often because of the power.

On a Defender or anyone with Kinetics as a primary, out of the box endurance gain is .966% or almost the same as basic endurance (without Stamina). This is fine for early players, but, in the 30s things change. This is even less for Contollers or anyone with Kinetics as a secondary, out of the box gain is .773 or about 75% of basic endurance.

Since you have a greater recharge of powers, unboosted SB can actually result in a "flatline" gain or even a slight drain. This becomes tougher on a person with Hasten as well (mind the end drop when it wears off).

I have actually seen a Stone Brute complain that a unenhanced SB was not good enough for him, and as a witness, he was correct. He was unable to do what an enhanced SB'er could do for him.

I recommend the following based on playing both a Defender with Kinetics, a Controller with Kinetics, and observation:

SB in a Kinetics Primary: Double Slot with Endurance Modifications. Triple for extra effect. Endurance gain (triple slotted) is 1.91 or almost double basic endurance. Double Slotted it is slightly better than that of a person running SB in their Secondary Triple Slotted (see below).

SB in a Kinetics Secondary: Alway Triple Slot with Endurance Modifications. Endurance gain is 1.52 or 1 and a half basic endurance.

Sadly, even with 3 slotted Stamina, a Kinetics Secondary player will see a much slower return to full blue. I believe if you are not fully green, fully blue... well that is me. Some folks say full is not necessary. I think it is from a psych point of view. Full bar means GO GO GO!

Lets bump this up for the newbies on their Christmas Break.

Happy Holidays!

You can adjust my formula a bit, however, I got it from crunching numbers for the MAXIMUM speed. Now, you may not care about 1 or 3 mph and then you may... either way, I simply presented the way to get the max benefit.

[ QUOTE ]
To the OP: What about those of us who don't slot powers until SO's, saving our inf throughout the early levels?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully you get drops that you may use in place of purchases. Even unslotted, you are fast and have the benefits provided by these powers. If you look at my points, above, you will see that.

/bumped - for the new folks!

[ QUOTE ]
or bring a regen scrapper to solo it....
...
...
...
...
...
From I2...

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you nutz or listening to rumor?

Even in I2 the Alpha Strike from the King faceplanted my Regen as did many AVs.

I am sick and tired of stories (and they were just that... boasts) of Regens in God Mode.

Let me dispspel some myths from the beginning to the end of real Regens (I5).

Boast: Regens Tanked the Hami.
Fact: All Mitos had to be down. The Regen had to be all or nearly all Hami Health Enhanced. The shots from the Hami were so slow that you could take a blast and regen just in time to take another. Also, why use a Regen to tank the Hami? Well the damage is UNTYPED, meaning that nobody can withstand the damage. That meant that you must heal.

Boast: I can solo a Giant Monster.
Fact: You could not kill the GM. You needed to run full time Dull Pain. This was more of an excerise in just standing there, hitting heals and eating green mints.

Boast: I was the team tank.
Fact: You did not hold aggro like a tank. The odds were you were not getting as many hits as a real tank. If you were, and it was a full 8 man team... you were a faceplant.

Boast: I could solo AVs.
Fact: You were on Heroic at best. AVs like Dreck would faceplant you whilst your Invul and SR brothers fought on. In fact, many AVs would faceplant a Regen, the PBAoEs were simply too powerful and we had no armor.

I can go on and on. I recall getting a 3 shot faceplant from a Malta Gunfighter at level 49 in I2. 3 Shots despite Full Time Dull Pain, Accolades, IH, Tough, Weave, and the Fitness Group. I was running over 2+ k in Hit Points.

I recall dropping from one shots from guys like Dreck, despite 2+k in hit points and everything going like above.

I remember perma MoG and still having Malta Robots smacking me like a red haired step child.

It is time to drop the myth of God Mode Regens and realize that was their armor - the ability to heal - and that made and makes people jealous. That jealousy is ill informed, misplaced, and totally ignorant.

Shameless :::bump:::

[ QUOTE ]
Ya'll seem to be forgettin' something...

...this.

[/ QUOTE ]

HOLY SUPER SUPER HERO!

:::sniff::: I have been nerfed too much! I want my I2 Regen back!

I suspect the faceplant would not have been mine

No, the solution to MoG is simple

Swap it with Force of Nature.

Blasters will love MoG. Blasters are largely ranged, though Blappers exist and MoG, IMO, would work better in that role. Blasters would benefit from the low health condition with their defiance. With that much defiance going, they would be kill-bots. Next the increased endurnace is a real plus. They would be winners all around, with Defense, Resistance, and Defiance.

NOW - we trade!

That is right, we get FoN, Force of Nature. Regens stay in the "green". we can heal, we get resistance, and we can slot for extra endurance gain.

So, it is a Win/Win situation. Blasters get to do more, Regens get to do more... we are happy.

[ QUOTE ]

I feel for ya that MoG is a poor power when compared to what other tier 9's are out there. Sadly I really hope the dev's look at other issues before this one. The RSF, Doms in general, fury in PvP, domination in PvP, EPP's vs PPP's, Blaster Inherents are all issues that effect more people and are more "broken" than MoG.

The -regn set is already considered by many to be the best set out of all the stalker/scrapper sets. With that in mind, I think it would be fair for the dev's to give you a better "MoG" but at the cost of somthing else..... say knockback protection.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY? I ask! Regen was picked on in every issue up to the last one. Why must anything more be taken from us?

Forget what others say!

Play one, from level 1 to 50 and then return here and make that suggestion... you won't.

Regen is fine, by today's standard, but, if I could , I would rework the whole set to again include IH as it would fit into today's game. Older regen's miss the power, younger regen's do not know what they are missing. Either way, I would rework the whole set and toss MoG out on it's ear.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MOG SUX!

It sux so much it makes me puke to use it. I avoid it like the plague, and when I do use it, I am a "moment from a faceplant"

MoG would be PERFECT for Blasters! Think of the Defiance bonus they would have!

FoN (Force of Nature) is more like a Regen Power!

Devs! Please Please Please SWAP THEM!

You would make Blasters happy and you would make Regens happy.

What is wrong with happy players?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's funny and sad is that this sounds like a perfect solution...

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a perfect solution!

It is a true WIN/WIN for both Blasters and Regens. Both would walk away from the conference table as happy players.

My Blaster would pick up Defense, Resistance, and a real opportunity to use Defiance in a powerful way.

My Regen would pick up Regen Green, Resistance to Toxic, and besides...

FoN makes you look "pretty"!

MOG SUX!

It sux so much it makes me puke to use it. I avoid it like the plague, and when I do use it, I am a "moment from a faceplant"

MoG would be PERFECT for Blasters! Think of the Defiance bonus they would have!

FoN (Force of Nature) is more like a Regen Power!

Devs! Please Please Please SWAP THEM!

You would make Blasters happy and you would make Regens happy.

What is wrong with happy players?