AddamsFamily

It should be pointed out that no one is saying, you can't farm missions. If you want to farm missions, then choose a mission and farm it until you get sick of it.

What is being said, is that creating missions specifically for farming is frowned on. Thus, if you want to farm in the MA choose a mission (probably one mission story arc) and play it over and over again. This way you can farm MA missions and not get the higher-ups banning your missions that were created for farming only.

[ QUOTE ]
so basically your saying that all the missions in MA should be click glowie. or did you forget about all the dev created content that says kill(defeat is the same thing) all? or are you saying that because you got several tickets and badges for doing the 5 mission long arc that it's a "farm"? did it maybe come into your thoughts that maybe someone was poking fun at the "farmers"? just some food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]



No, the person was not "poking fun" of farmers. It was an exploit and it got pulled fast. And if you farmers were half as smart as you think you are, you would know by now why a 5 mission story arc designed for farming would constitute an exploit.

(It was literally jaw dropping bad.)


And as for comparing these player created farm missions with dev content, are you nuts?

You're comparing missions with a plot, contact dialogue etc. to "FARM FARM FARM" Kill Kill Kill." especially those missions where all the farmer puts on the map is a custom group consisting of one creature in the default costume?

Oh, and btw, those farmer missions are rarely kill all missions. (At least the ones designed by half-way intelligent farmers). The smart ones put that no thought custom group in and then put one mandatory mission objective in. That way they can leave if they have to (for what ever reason) and still get the mission complete bonus.


You know, right now I have the strong urge to put together a farming mission, publish it, run through it once and post the results. Just to have an illustration as to why this is a problem.

[ QUOTE ]
Many missions that the devs created are simple kill all Xs in the warehouse. Hell most the radio and paper missions have little to no introduction at all beyond somthing like "<Enemy group> has stolen a new metal, it would earn you decent cash go get it, leave no witnesses."

[/ QUOTE ]



Oh, if only most farm missions reached the level of these missions created by the devs. (And, btw, I tend to avoid Radio/Paper Missions like the plague. I only touch them when I need a new contact.)




[ QUOTE ]
If you start a mission from the MA, and you go into the door and see that its not a mission you want to do, then you have the ultimate control for yourself. You exit the mission, quit the story and choose another.


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My point is you control your MA experience. If you dont want to run a mission a player created quit it. But dont get all holier then thou that you have the ultimate judgement of what is or isnt appropriate to play for others.

[/ QUOTE ]


Here's one of the biggest problems. Those farm missions that have no content to speak of whatsoever keep getting 5 Stars. A mission that has 10+ votes and a 5 star rating represents good content, right? Not if it's a farm mission. A farm mission with a 5 Star rating is instead an example of a farmer giving a high rating in order to give another farmer tickets. (The farmer of that mission than plays the second farmers mission an rates it 5 stars).

Having farm missions get multiple 5 star ratings moves them to the front of the list. When searching for missions that represent strong content, you should be looking for 5 star missions. But all the farmers have pushed those missions aside.


I wouldn't mind if these farm missions had 1 stars ratings. I wouldn't see them. I wouldn't play them. I wouldn't have to deal with them at all.

But no, the farmers have to keep pushing them in my face.


I don't really control my MA experience if the action of the farmers prevents me from finding the missions I want to play. And it does.


THIS IS THE REASON PEOPLE ARE SO PISSED OFF AT THE FARMERS RIGHT NOW.

[ QUOTE ]
How about rather then getting all torked about them, simply dont search for "short" MA arcs. I would imagine its a safe bet that many farms will be 1 mission arcs.


[/ QUOTE ]


The problem is, there are farmers trying to disguise their farm missions. That includes making them more than 1 mission in length.


I have hit Medium/Long Missions where you get a two sentance intro dialogue, get into the first mission and the only other text you get is "Farm" or Kill". And as I stated in the first post, the mission that started this thread was an arc 5 Missions in length. Not a "Very Short" Mission. In addition, it involved an exploit.


BTW, why should I be forced to avoid missions of a certain length just to avoid the rude, obnoxious and potentially exploitable actions of another player? Shouldn't the onus be on the player misbehaving?

[ QUOTE ]
If it's so annoying that you "keep running into those stupid farm missions" why did you intentionally play one that stated it was a farm up front? And then report it... and then come to the forums to brag about it...

...griefer.

[/ QUOTE ]


First, not all farm missions are up-front about it. If you give your missions a half-way interesting title and description, and all the text/description I get after taking the missions is "FARM" you have wasted my time.

Second, there are some farm mission that are just so blatant in advertising themselve that they need to be reported, especially if it involves an exploit or some kind of quid-pro-quo. These actions are as violative of the EULA as using names that are copyrighted or involve swear words. If you put your obnoxious behavior in my face, you bet I'll report it.

You need to keep in mind one thing when dealing with those 5-Star missions that are just garbage: Farmers flock together.

I hit a mission yesterday explicity called a farm by the author. The description said "Standard Rates Apply". The Send Off Dialogue told the player to Rate it 5 Stars.


I other words, I've created a custom group that allows you to maximize your tickets now give me my tickets in return by rating this piece of doo-doo 5 Stars. (1 lieutenant, so all you get is lieutenants in mission, no other work done).

This one had a 5-Star rating and 18 Votes. The same thing is happening with a large number of missions that represent absolutely no effort on the part of the author.

There is a setting on some objectives that lets you set them to spawn after another one.

You have to have another objective in the mission that is mandatory for mission completion, and then set the second objective to spawn based on the first.

In your case that would be setting the Collection to spawn after the boss is defeated. (Not entirely sure you can do this with a Collection objective, haven't tried it myself.)

Note: This method of chaining objectives CAN get irritating when playing a mission. Use it carefully.

Here's something I ran into tonight.

{ }'s Farm (name omitted)

Description: This is { }'s farm. Satndard Rates Apply.


Send Off Dialogue: Rate Five Stars.


18 people did.
(Custom Group nothing but 1 Lt. with "Kill Em" description)



There is no difference between this and those Spam EMails advertising PL services. And there is page after page of this.

How do you think those "Enter Title" Missions gete three people giving them 5 stars?


I give it three more days before the Devs put a complete moratorium on open Publishing rights, possibly coupled with a complete wipe of all mission currently published. With the devs then having to pre-approve what gets published. Otherwise, the MA system will be populated solely by farmers as farm mission become the only thing people can readily find.

The problem here, is that they probably have to completely disallow progress in the mission or completely allow it.


This is a problem because you don't just get healing credit for just your teammates. You get it for allies/pets.

Because you could create a mission designed to farm healing. I can certainly think of several ways to go about it.

[ QUOTE ]
Are u sick and tired of carebears?

Wanna take out your frustrations by whooping a few?

Try this Farm out for size.....


Arc Name: Carebears kidnap PvP
Arc ID: 11548
Morality: Neutral
Creator: @Ignicity
Difficulty Level: Solo or Group Orientated
Arc Description: A morbid tale of sadomasochism, betrayal and hilarity for your own personal entertainment. Attempt to rescue whats left of PvP and seek vengeance on those responsible for this heinous act. Contains AV/EBs. Don't be a Carebear. Turn up the difficulty!
Arc Length: Long. Between 30 minutes to an Hour to complete.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hey! How dare you hi-jack the thread I started with your shamless plug!

And why pick on the carebears?

[ QUOTE ]
So you come to tell us you found an exploit but you aren't going to tell us what it is.

Why create this thread then? Just to brag that you turn in exploiters?

[/ QUOTE ]


Venting steam to a certain extent.

But people do need to keep an eye out for farm missions, because as I said earlier someone has found an exploit and other people will mimic it.

It won't be long until all the people making "Farm" missions do what I encountered. And if the devs can't find a way to address it, the only recourse they may have is to shut down the AE or make pre-approval by a GM mandatory before publishing.

Neither would be good.


Consider this a warning about the impact of the behavior of certain people on your ability to use the AE.


As to not telling what the exploit isbefore addressed; that amounts to advertising an exploit. That is a definately no-no.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I keep running into those stupid farm missions. No plot, little if any dialogue, just go kill. I finally hit one that was designed in such a way as to constitute an exploit. (And no, I am not telling anybody what it was, not until it's addressed. Yes, I reported it).

I'm tired of the farm missions any way. I want real content. If this finally forces the Dev's to come up with some way to stop these farm missions (mostly because they will all eventually be designed like the one I encountered) all the better.

[/ QUOTE ]While I respect your opinion about farms, I'm curious about what constitutes a farm in the MArch? The only thing it could be considered to produce is tickets, and they drop like rain in all MArch missions and arcs.

And how sure are you that the missions you're objecting to weren't just set up as a combat challenge? How do you define the difference.

In the interest of full disclosure, I personally have no real objection to "farms", just some of the players running them. Nor am I saying you should just ignore them. You're entitled to your stand, and many people agree with you. I'm just curious how you identify a mission/arc as an actual farm?

[/ QUOTE ]


I define farm as a mission arc where the creator put no effort at all into text or descriptions, etc and usually advertises as a farm or easy tickets, easy kills etc.

If you give me "FARM" as the only text and put it in everywhere you can possibly put it, what else am I supposed to conclude?

And the two things that annoy me most are

1) These types of missions getting 5 star ratings with multiple votes. Putting no effort into a mission and then getting tickets by having your buddies vote on it annoys me. Especially whan compared to the effort some people put into their missions. (I especially loved the mission I found with nothing but a kill all against a custom group with no descriptions that had 200+ votes and a 4 star rating. That's enough for two Gold Recipe rolls for basically doing nothing.)

2) These types of missions being disguised with a half-way decent title/description and then finding nothing but "FARM" "FARM "FARM" once in the mission. I think constantly running into these pieces of garbage is what has given me a short temper.

[ QUOTE ]
what wrong with maximizing tickets? that doesnt classify it as a "farm". and since you wont say what the exploit is, then why bother even posting it. did it occur to you that maybe it was set up to get badges? there are a ton of new ones with the MA.

[/ QUOTE ]


Read again, please.

The mission text explicity stated that it was set up to maximize ticket output.

BTW, checked today. It has been pulled.

A little clarification on this.

This was not your typical "go kill" one mission length arc with no text. It was 5 missions, involved what amounts to an exploit (and I don't describe those on the boards) and clearly stated in the text it was set up purely to maximize ticket output.

And once one person comes up with an exploit, others will copy it until the devs do something about it.

I keep running into those stupid farm missions. No plot, little if any dialogue, just go kill. I finally hit one that was designed in such a way as to constitute an exploit. (And no, I am not telling anybody what it was, not until it's addressed. Yes, I reported it).

I'm tired of the farm missions any way. I want real content. If this finally forces the Dev's to come up with some way to stop these farm missions (mostly because they will all eventually be designed like the one I encountered) all the better.

1 Star Bandits a problem? Try 5 Star Bandits.

Today, just about every 5 star mission arc I tried was somebody's farm mission. No contact dialogue, no plot, no descriptions, etc.

One of them had 5 stars and 6 players voting on it. I have a real mission. It got two votes of 5 stars, then one of 3 and hasn't been touched since it's now behind pages and pages of <expletive> missions with phony ratings.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had my arc banned after 22 people played it (I got the Author badge to prove it.)

Mine was probably banned for the same reason, as it had "Farm" and "Tickets" in the title.

But that also calls to question:

1 What if I make a bunch of custom critters that look like ducks, chickens, cows, goats and pigs.
2. I take said custom critters, and put them in an outdoor map.
3. I make the mission "defeat all"
4. And call it "Your Ticket to the Animal Farm Revolt".


Would that be banned?

[/ QUOTE ]


Been there, done that, had it banned.

Actually it was "OLd McDonalds Farm" and it was a farm mission because it was on a "Farm". (Croatoa map)Apparently somebody didn't get the joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's truly not a "ticket farm" and there are no other problems, escalate the ban to a GM. If they see that it's not a loot farm they can mark it so that it can't be banned by dumb people again.

[/ QUOTE ]


After coming across a several other "Old McDonald", "Ole McDonald" ,etc. missions, it's just not worth the effort.

Especially if I'm never told what the specific problem is.

[ QUOTE ]
So here's a handy tip. Put some kind of rudimentary plot and dialogue in your farming missions ---

[Orcish]: et voilà!

Here you go:

Random Title Generator
Free Writer's Plot Generator

[/ QUOTE ]


Let's see, Crey illigally dumping Radioactive waste on farm causes the animals and crops to mutate. Animals/Pumpkins revolt taking wife and daughter hostage. You have to destroy barrels, giant ant hills and giant cocoons (no collect possible on map) and rescue two hostages.

I worked on dialog, descriptions for custom groups, etc. Tongue-in-cheek humor.

Still got banned.

Granted there were a few references to Copyright material or slightly risque bits, but nothing I thought violated the EULA. This is why we need feedback if a mission get banned. Was it banned for being a "farm" mission? (If so, someone missed the joke)

Copyright material references? I can remove them.

The Farmer's Daughter references? (This from the poeple that gave us MaeMae Van Hooters err Hooten?)


How can I know if it was just an over-eager GM that didn't even bother to look at the mission or for a real reason if I get no feedback?

[ QUOTE ]
I had my arc banned after 22 people played it (I got the Author badge to prove it.)

Mine was probably banned for the same reason, as it had "Farm" and "Tickets" in the title.

But that also calls to question:

1 What if I make a bunch of custom critters that look like ducks, chickens, cows, goats and pigs.
2. I take said custom critters, and put them in an outdoor map.
3. I make the mission "defeat all"
4. And call it "Your Ticket to the Animal Farm Revolt".


Would that be banned?

[/ QUOTE ]


Been there, done that, had it banned.

Actually it was "OLd McDonalds Farm" and it was a farm mission because it was on a "Farm". (Croatoa map)Apparently somebody didn't get the joke.

[ QUOTE ]
The first fix I think the rating system should have is that no one can rate an arc unless they have completed it (but can leave a comment).

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem here is that I have run into a couple of missions that I was unable to finish.

One had Akarist set as an AV (downgraded to EB when I played). You did get an EB as an aid, but the designer threw in several hard Ambushes while fighting Akarist and the EB would get taken out before the fight with Akarist was over. (Tried the arc with two different characters and it happened both times). My characters couldn't do enough damage to Akarist to take him out without outside help.

If your mission is set up so I can't complete it solo without calling out Shivans, why should I be disallowed from rating it just because I didn't happen to have one handy? Especially if I've gone through 4 1/2 mission in your arc before stalling out.

Mission arcs that can be impossible to complete SHOULD be rated, and the rating should be less than if they can always be completed.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, Dark Servant slotting. That reminds me.

Dark Miasma

Dark Servant is a damage dealing pet, but does not accept damage enhancements or Pet Damage invention sets.

[/ QUOTE ]


It doesn't accept Damage Enhancements, thus no Pet Sets.

(Why no Damage Enhancements? Don't ask me)

[ QUOTE ]
Is Mids correct on Gravity Control's damage?

- Crush
- 1.33s Activation Time
- 4s Recharge
- 18.6x5 = 92.8 damage over 9.2 seconds

- Lift
- 1.03s Activation Time
- 6s Recharge
- 84.7 damage

- Gravity Distortion
- 1.83s Activation Time
- 8s Recharge
- 24.9x5 = 124.5 damage over 4.2 seconds

- Propel
- 3.50s Activation Time
- 8s Recharge
- 110.1 damage

Why is Gravity Distortion doing more damage than Propel? Propel is as much a damage power as lift, and you can fire THREE lifts in the time it takes to fire one propel. Is there a justification or is Propel simply doing too little damage?

[/ QUOTE ]


Something's wrong with you numbers.

Base Damage at 50:

Crush 36.1
Lift 28.9
GD 39.8
Propel 70.8


In your numbers, Propel is getting a 50% damage boost and the others are getting between 250% to 300% damage boost. (Roughly)


Edit: Didn't Realize you meant PVP numbers. The numbers you have listed are what Mids has for PVP. In which case, yes there is something wrong.

I think what annoys me is the basic idea of Dwarf Form as mez protection.


To put things in perspective: Start with the Stone Armor Powerset, remove Rooted so Granite is the only mez protection available. Then lower the base Resistance from 50% to 37.5% and remove the Defense portion of the power. At the same time, have Granite deactivate Health, Stamina, Mud Pots, and some of the Tank's attack powers. (And for White Dwarf, have it deactive any +Acc +Damage powers.)


This is what Castle is trying to tell us is a viable form of Mez Protection. If that were true, there wouldn't be complaints about the lack of mez protection in Human form.

[ QUOTE ]
Issue 13 had an effect not expected at all, the enforcement to take at least the dwarf form, if not all forms.

From Castle :


[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Human form has such strong flexibility, control, heal and protective benefits with mez protection that giving up those benefits for the minute bonus to mez resist and/resistance that Dwarf form provided under these circumstances simply was not worth the power, slot and animation time costs. Why would you give up a better attack chain, access to Stamina, Hasten, Tough and Weave for a small benefit? Almost no one would.

In order to maintain Dwarf Form as a viable option I pretty much have to disallow self status protection in human form.


[/ QUOTE ]


Anybody else have a gag reflex in response to this quote.

The complaint about lack of Human form mez protection is because being forced to rely on Dwarf for mez protection means giving up the "strong flexibility, control, heal and protective benefits" of human form. You can't use them when mezzed, or in Dwarf.

And this part "Why would you give up a better attack chain, access to Stamina, Hasten, Tough and Weave for a small benefit?" . The reason I took Haste is because I spend so much time in Dwarf. The power effect carries over to Dwarf, and the effect is necessary in order to have an attack chain. Without it, it's "Attack, attack, wait, wait." Using Dwarf as a form of Mez Protection almost makes Haste a mandatory power pick. I didn't know making Power Pool choices nearly mandatory was seen as viable game design.

One of the major problems when it comes to Dwarf form as mez protection is that it's not like the one power that other AT's (Tanks, Scrappers etc.) need to take for Mez Protection, it's more like 5. That's because not only do you need to slot White Dwarf/Black Dwarf, you also need to slot the powers you get when you take the Dwarf form. The end result needing to slot these powers and the lack of flexability that occurs when you shift to Dwarf is that many players don't see taking Dwarf From as a viable power choice now. They'd rather load up on Break Frees.

If giving mez protection to Human form makes Dwarf so redundant, maybe it's time to look at Dwarf form.