abnormal_joe
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Posts
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Joined
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Value depends on the goals you have for that alt. I'm not a fan of making a sweeping assumption then declaring what is "best" for everyone. That way lies FOTM builds....and boredom.
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Quote:A shield tank with 3 generic IOs per defensive power and similarly slotted weave would have 36.7% def per mids. Unslotted he would base at 25% which is what the Alpha would calculate against. With the rare you could get by with 2 level 50 generics to ED cap and get an additional 3.35 or so to all vectors. Almost exactly 40%. You also managed to free up 3 slots.Originally Posted by Syntax42
Let's say you have 40% defense from powers alone that are all enhanced to 57% post-ED. This is a close scenario to what a Shield Defense Tanker might experience. After adding the tier 4 Cardiac Alpha, you would have 43.66% defense. That is basically one set bonus in each category. The recharge Alpha boost would more than make up for three purple sets worth of recharge.
The Steadfast unique puts you at 43%. A Glad Proc or a Set of Gaussians puts you over softcap.
It may, or may not, be the most effective way to maximize an alt. That decision varies greatly depending on your build focus and the content you want to face. It is difficult to argue against this as the most efficient way to reach softcap.
On a SR this is even more true since you would save a slot each on seven powers rather than three.
I'm pretty sure you meant Nerve not Cardiac. -
Quote:Note the part about SO slotting.Originally Posted by Djeannie
Why would you think that? Once you're softcapped that's pretty much it. If you're not softcapped then it could help by a few percentage points getting you to the cap.
A rare alpha could help those two sets reach softcap while saving IOs for different goals.
I realize most folks have build for softcap but this would allow you to focus more on recharge, damage, regen, whatever without sacrificing that survivability. -
Quote:I need to crunch the numbers on this but I remember thinking the rare defense buff would make a SR or Shield nigh broken on SO slotting.Originally Posted by kangaroo120y
at least the tier 1 and tier 2's wont do much for defense or resistance, because as a tanker, you've probably already maxed them out with regular slotting. However i'd love to see the higher tier alpha slots, with 2/3rd of the enhancement ignoring ED. should make for some intersting building. Come on Mids!! I wanna check it out!
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Its your alt so feel free to change whatever you like.
I have run this particular tank through a few farms just to be sure he could.
Normally I use him for tips run at +0x6-8(depending on foe type)no boss.
the drop rate is about what you would expect farming and gives the additional benefit of A merits.
And since I forgot to mention it before I went cardiac for the extra end reduction and resists.
He was not having end trouble reallly but I play a tad aggresivly. -
Here's my live build. Rocks at pretty much everything you mentioned.
I would not call it a budget build by any stretch.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
TCP MELEE AND 63 RECH: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(3), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(3), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Oblit-%Dam(25)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(7), S'fstPrt-ResKB(27)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(37), HO:Golgi(50)
Level 6: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Consume -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Oblit-%Dam(25)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(31), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(13), S'fstPrt-ResKB(37)
Level 14: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(15), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(37)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 18: Burn -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Oblit-%Dam(27)
Level 20: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(21), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 22: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 30: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Rise of the Phoenix -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Greater Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(43)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(45), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShldBrk-%Dam(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48), AirB'st-Acc/Dmg(48), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A)
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Quote:Your opinions mirror common tank dogma, and they have their place. My experience has led me to a slightly different approach to tanking {see guide in sig}.Originally Posted by Syntax42
Hasten's crash is hurting your endurance bar because you lack endurance reduction in your toggles. It is only 15 endurance after 2 minutes, which is .125 end/s.
The difference between 120% ish global recharge on your build and 180% for perma-Hasten is noticeable. It would result in a 23s recharge instead of a 28s recharge on Shield Charge and Lightning Rod.
By picking up Hasten and making your build more efficient, you can also spare more slots to enhance resistance. Even at the soft cap for defense, you WILL get hit. Streakbreaker gives critters an automatic hit that isn't very far into the fight. It generally happens all at once, so you have to be prepared to take a lot of damage at once. Enhancing resistance and True Grit's HP bonus ensures that the impact to your health bar will be minimal.
If you can tank Lord Recluse without dying while he is buffed by the towers, then I would say your build is fine. I have seen a Shield Tanker do it without assistance from the team or a dedicated healer, so I know it is possible.
Let me explain....
1.Hasten does not have a .125eps drain, it has a 15 end sap all at once. On a tank with the kind of massive aoe burst dmg that this build does, that is a key difference. Burst Dmg=Burst End Drain. The potential of a 15 end crash hitting during my primary aoe chain risks running dry. This did happen with my old build which was much closer to what you recommend. It does not happen now. Slotting end reduction in toggles is both less effective than slotting in attacks, and completely useless in the primary attack scenario I have mentioned.
2.Suffice it to say I don't need a lesson in how streakbreaker works. But your concern highlights a difference in playstyle. Many posters here tend to advocate the ability to solo tank every possible AV or situation unsupported. To me that is hogwash. Brutes and scrappers are made to solo, tanks exist as a melee AT to support a team. If heaven forbid, I join a team so useless they cannot or will not assist me, I have temp powers and *gasp* inspirations. Minions, lts, and bosses do not concern me. My aforementioned AOE attack chain will keep them flopping. Three of the four powers juggle, the forth has a purple KD proc. Again my view differs from many posters. Many seem to think that their green bar must never move. My only concern is that I not die before the spawn is defeated.
Having main tanked this build through every possible kind of content I can assure you streakbreaker does not allow enough damage through to require even a fraction of what I can repair via aidself.
3.A bit more on hasten and efficiency. A tank planning on doing a significant amount of damage (I have to assume that is the main reason to choose this particular primary) can best do so by leveraging their pbaoes. this is doubly true for a shielder with AAO.
You don't need to herd per se, but you do need to clump up the foes a bit to saturate your damage and get them nice and tight for your aoes. I have discovered from long experience that when soloing it tends to average 30 seconds per spawn. Counting travel time between, clumping, and of course defeating them. While it can be argued that the time is lessoned on a steam rolling team. I have never seen a steam roller team that didn't have a kin, or rad that was buffing my recharge. Given that experience, and the negatives of the power, I simply don't agree that 5 sec off my nuke recharge justifies the cost.
I just want to emphasize I am not calling you ignorant, or wrong. I am simply pointing out that there are many valid ways to play a tank, and probably many more valid ways to build one. You might also note that unlike the op, I was NOT requesting build advice Simply offering up what I found best for the way I play.
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Quote:Couple things.Originally Posted by Syntax42
The build posted above has some issues. They should have taken Hasten because that is a large chunk of your global recharge bonus. It is missing endurance reduction in the toggles. It is also missing True Grit. Enhancing True Grit, Deflection, and Tough's resistance bonus will help you survive longer.
I *hate* hasten. Its ugly and the crash does dirty things to my blue bar. With IOs being what they are I opt not to ever take it now. I have trouble imagining a situation where one "needs" more rech than I have in the build as it is.
I will grant that taking and slotting up all resist powers will make you tougher, but again it begs the question why. Very little in the game will get past softcap, tanker hp, aidself.
The few places you might encounter an actual threat you will almost certainly have team mates to assist you.
There was an early build, now lost, where I had softcap, 70ish rech, and a heal....without the use of purples. It was effective. It was much cheaper. But I found that this was far and away my favorite alt out of 38 50s and 5 1/2 years of play. With the amount of time I spent on him I figured why the hell not? -
A slighty past soft cap SR ignores defense debuffing.
The worst I have seen is from radiation AVs like Dreck, Positron and the like.
Having faced every imaginable debuff on a handful of SRs (spines/sr scrapper, em/sr brute, fm/sr brute) I can promise you debuffs are trivial. The real threat is significant enemy tohit BUFFS like Quartz emanators or Nemesis stacked Vengeance. -
Rumor is true for once. Here's what I am running for my shield/elec.
Fair warning the build price is prohibitive.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Static purple 130 w heal: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Run+(3), DefBuff-I(7)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(5), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(9), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(13), Mocking-Rchg(15)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Run+(3), DefBuff-I(7)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Oblit-%Dam(15)
Level 6: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(43)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(34), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Mocking-Rchg(36)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Run+(50)
Level 14: Stimulant -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(17), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Armgdn-Dam%(19)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(21), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(23), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(23), GSFC-Build%(33)
Level 22: Aid Self -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal(43)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(25), Zephyr-ResKB(25)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dam%(33)
Level 30: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(36), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(36), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(37), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(37)
Level 32: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(43), GftotA-Run+(50)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(42), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(42), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Decim-Build%(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Knock%(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A)
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Well said.
I've had three totally different and very effective IO builds on this tank during his career.
Including one that was "wrong",+dmg/rech with medicine pool for dual heals.
All three worked great with minor playstyle alterations. It would not surprise me to learn that there was another three great builds foci I overlooked.
The huge amount of variety is one of the things that has kept me playing so long. -
I seldom get kbed, that attack has to connect before it can move you.
There are a very few foes I have to watch, carnie illusionists are one they have a high psi dmg mez that is not vector tagged, no defenses or resists to that so it all hits. Let more than 3 or 4 of them beat on me and I will eventually go down. Of course in those rare cases I just rotp and beat them down.
On a 50 death/debt is not a deal breaker.
RE: regen. I went that route on my first IO build for this tank. It helped but no where near as effectively as soft cap level defenses.
For me the mitigation is Death>Juggling>Defense>Resist>Heal>Regen>RotP
By the time I am leaning on regen the situation is so bad its not really going to make a difference anyhow. -
Here's what I'm runnin on my old fire/ss. Solos and teams like a champ. I went cardiac for the end reduc and eventual extra resists. He's running 43.9 def to s/l 44.8 to nrg/neg and 30.8 to melee to help with the exotic stuff. He is more than capable of tanking anything I have encountered thus far.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Elder Pumicite: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 6: Healing Flames -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(50)
Level 8: Consume -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 10: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 16: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(37), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(40), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 18: Burn -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(31), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(34), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(23), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(50)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Krma-ResKB(50)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Rage -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(29), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(34), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 32: Rise of the Phoenix -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Hurl -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(39), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(40), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(43)
Level 44: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- AirB'st-Acc/Dmg(A), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(48), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(48), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
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-
Fire Armor may not be the sturdiest of tanker primaries but it is solid enough for most applications, and a far better soloist than most.
The changes to FE mean that you can really pump up that burst damage to deal with a particularly pesky foe.
I've leveled this particular set to 50 three times now.
The fire/ice tank did indeed rely heavily on Ice Patch for mitigation. Once I had him softcapped to melee I found the power redundant and ended up dropping it.
The only real threat now is a serious -recharge debuff. Since I retained a fully slotted rez/nuke I tend to use it to shed the debuff and slaughter the foe who had the temerity to challenge me.
The fire/ss tank went through quite a few different builds: +hp/regen, max dmg, and finally softcapped typed defense. The final build really shines, particularly once the end usage was balanced out.
The third alt was a dm/fa scrapper that went damage all the way. Its a race to see who drops first me or my enemies, but I have a ferrari to their pinto, and I can always rez they cannot.
In all three cases a surprisingly large amount of the damage mitigation is the ability to wade in pop two or three aoes then my heal, and have only one or two foes still standing.
A fire/fire has even more of that damage potential if less active mitigation.
A team makes things easier for me by contributing buffs and their damage, but I manage just fine on my own. -
Quote:First off thanks for the mention.Originally Posted by Fireheart
Try reading Abnormal Joe's introduction to Tanking: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=208495
That may make your choices easier.
After that, TRY STUFF! Yes, I know it might seem like a waste of time, but every Primary and Secondary is different. They each Play differently, with different strengths and weaknesses. We all have particular combos that we like, but We are not You and you may not enjoy the things we like.
If you'd like to see a bunch of different Tankers doing their thing, at various levels of ability, come on out to Tanker Tuesday sometime.
Oh, and Welcome to the world of Tankers.
Be Well!
Fireheart
To the op, fire/fire is a great soloist, and holds aggro like a sponge. You will not be the tank that can just stand there unhurt in the middle of a spawn forever, but hey! you won't need to. You will be dropping them like flies. I've tried building FA for regen/hp, double heals(Hf & aidself), melee defense, and typed def(s/l/nrg/neg) the last one seemed to work best. It's not the cheapest but you should earn enough in the course of your career to cover most if not all of it. Once its finished you will indeed be able to shrug off the dmg of massive spawns with no sacrifice to personal damage output. Something I find is often (and unnecessarily) overlooked in tanker builds. -
Yep, he's still in heavy rotation. No real end problems.
He does have cardiac slotted. He has consume. He really never bothers to run tough, cj, sprint, or NR in mission.
On the off chance I need the extra survival I am almost certainly teamed and can either lean on buffs or slack on attacks a bit. I did craft a recovery serum just in case but I've never needed it yet. -
Here's what I'm running on my old fire/ss.
Its almost softcapped to s/l/nrg/neg.
It does not really need defense to fire.
While the numbers are not great for psi and cold many of those attacks have a dmg component that is covered and I got around 30% to melee and ranged more or less by accident.
Hope the comparison is useful.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Elder Pumicite: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 6: Healing Flames -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(50)
Level 8: Consume -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 10: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 16: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(37), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(40), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 18: Burn -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(31), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(34), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(23), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(50)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Krma-ResKB(50)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Rage -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(29), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(34), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 32: Rise of the Phoenix -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Hurl -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(39), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(40), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(43)
Level 44: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- AirB'st-Acc/Dmg(A), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(48), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(48), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A) -
Glad you enjoyed it.
Elec melee has several powers that take stun, sleep, and kb sets. These include a number of useful procs. The Sleep:Chance for Self Heal (at work so I don't remember the exact name) is a good example. The Feedback:Chance for Recharge in Thunderstrike is another good one.
The next update I was meaning to revist IOing tanks, since the advent of Alpha slots, and the +dmg one in particular makes it viable to use many sets that would have been vendor trash in prior issues. -
Quote:Personally I think the misunderstanding is the result of some lengthy threads elsewhere on these forums where folks have gone to great lengths calculating the most damaging AT/Powerset/etc on paper.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Still I think Tanker "low damage output" is largely exaggerated in comparison to Tanker survivability levels and their intended role on teams.
There has to be some sacrifice for that level of mitigation.
Less than optimal is not the same as sucking.
A tank may not normally go around one shotting purple con bosses but he won't be that far behind a scrapper or brute.
I also suspect that many of the folks who complain about tanker damage have not applied the same level of IO planning to the goal as they would for a scrapper or brute, further distorting the perception. Judging from the threads I see here, most tank builds focus far more on maximizing survivability (which they don't really need) than they do on maximizing dps. -
I will have to agree with Obitus. After having leveled almost every tanker powerset to 50 the hard way (KM is currently 22 all other sets finished) I have found complaints regarding tanker damage exaggerated.
As with every other archetype there is a range of performance. At on end there is extreme survivability at the other extreme damage output. Adding IOs and player skill allows us to push the build further...in either direction.
There are a few perks for tankers that we cannot build into the other melee ATs.
We cannot grant to the brute, scrapper, stalker, a tanks hp caps.
We cannot give the average meleer a tank's aggro control capacities.
When this question comes up I frequently see folks say "I can IO my scrapper/brute to be plenty tough enough for *insert supposedly difficult content here* why would I roll a tank?" My response is "I can IO my tank to do more than enough damage for any content I want to play, why would I settle for any other AT?" -
(Assuming inherent stamina here)
Lets say you want to focus on survivability first since you are on a tank. Aggro control second and personal damage third.
Taking every primary power and secondary power asap. you still have to dip into pools at 24 and 30. 30 is plenty early for aidself imho, and if you skip a single attack you could easily have weave by 30.
Since most primaries have skippable powers you have even more room in the build.
I can potentially see concept making for a tight build, but not sacrificing for survivability. -
I'm with CMA, a proper tank build should have very few sacrifices. With inherent stamina I really don't see a need for ANY.
My tanks, TANK. They also solo tips missions padded for whole teams, run AE missions at good speeds, complete story arcs including EBs unassisted, and if the mood strikes me solo large chunks of TF/SF content if I don't want to wait on the team. -
Hear Hear!
RIP Sailor -
"If you don't want to slot a power at all, even its default slot, why did you take it? I can't imagine why you'd use a power in such a state or that you couldn't find one aspect worth enhancing."
The question of a power being "worth slotting" is highly subjective. Maybe base stats on stamina is sufficient recovery for my tank to do what I want.
Or put another way tons of folks take combat jumping for the immob protection and combat movement, but I have yet to see someone recommend ED capping the jump or defense components.
Ice patch is another example, it works fine unslotted, why not use the base slot somewhere else? -
Was planning on making a elec/storm/mu Conductive plus Power Sink should insta-drain every spawn.