Aett_Thorn

I'd rather they actually fix the damage to endurance scale that Tankers have so as to 'normalize' it with other ATs.

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On a fire brute I'd go for +rech first, +def second

Having healing flames up more often will greatly improve your survivability

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/Second

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es, it is. Those comics have to worry exactly jack squat about balance. The story tellers can make those characters as powerful or as weak as they want, pretty much on the fly.

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And how have the devs NOT done this?. We have seen a nerfing of regen three times and a nerfing of fire and invul tanks. Rock has still remained "overpowered" in the sense that its only one shield toggle. Sometimes balance is ignored and concept is favored. I can only think of Rad defenders when I think of concept and imbalance.

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And this is done on the fly? Or after datamining and determing that a set is either outperforming or underperforming other sets for that AT? You know, trying to achieve some semblance of balance.

Do you go into a mission and have your power level adjusted to make story-sense with the enemies? Do you fight an AV, only to be defeated, and come back into the mission twice as strong so that you can take it out? You know, like in some comics and comic-book-movies, where the storyteller gets to do whatever he wants with the hero's power level at any time? No? Wonder why not?

Balance changes are just that: balance changes. They will occur over time. sometimes, sets get brought down, sometimes, they get bumped up. But let's not confuse that with having a completely mutable power level that is changed because the writer has a hangover or just broke up with his girlfriend.

Stone Armor only needs one armor on at all times, for a net endurance savings of about 0.4 end/second, depending on primary. For that, it suffers -Spd, -Dam, and can't jump over the most flimsy rope or curb. It also gets a lot of survivability out of it, but there are penalties to turning it on. If there weren't, it would be imbalanced, but it's not. Radiation Emission is a strange beast. It can do everything, but isn't the best at anything. The fact that it CAN do everything, though, is what makes it popular. I have a level 40 Energy/Rad corruptor, and I remember a lot of fights being over before I even got my second toggle applied to the enemy. Only against AVs and GMs do they really shine, and other Debuff sets can do just as well there.

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But without doing that, and implementing a system where Tankers can get a decent amount of blasts throughout the game, would lead to problems.

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Not really, through APP's tanks are given a taste, that isn't to say the devs have to bend over backwards for more blasts. I'm not talking about unique new blasting powers, but rather to use the already existing blasting AT's. I'm guessing you don't like change much?, or you like being "neutral" all the time. Asking for a little more isn't bad you know. Especially if its emulating an already emulated platform. Its rather expected.

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Having a few ranged attacks does not equal a full attack chain. Being able to Taunt (the power, that the Tanker secondary would still most likely need to have), and then blast enemies at range, when because of the -range debuff applied to the enemy, you'd take no return fire whatsoever, would be problematic. Tankers are limited in being able to do this right now, for good reason.

But let me ask you this:

Why should Tankers be given blasts to make your concepts be available, instead of Blasters getting Defenses? Should Defenders get some secondaries where they get some MM pets, because there are concepts out there that call for it? Should some Controller secondaries be completely melee attacks? Should Scrappers have some secondaries that contain ranged controls, instead of just armors?

Why should Tankers be able to break their mold, but not other ATs? If you're going to say that it's because there are characters in comics that do more than what Tankers in our game do, I'm sure that you can find some examples of everything I stated above.


I do like change. But I like to see some thought put into the reason other than just "I want it." I was one of the people leading the charge to get Ice Melee buffed. Would I have done that if I didn't like change?

No, I probably wouldn't have. I like change. But I also like balance, and understand the need for it. This idea, to give Tankers more ranged attacks, and at an earlier level, I think would damage AT balance. I will say so if I feel like it. There are changes that I like, and there are changes that I don't like. Don't try to add strawman arguments to the debate saying that I just don't like change. I do. I just don't want changes that I think will completely imbalance an most of an AT.

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Why would a level 16 need a shivan?

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I would have to say that after reading the OP's responses in this thread, he needs shivans because his bad attitude makes him a poor teammate, and inability to follow simple instructions makes soloing difficult for him. At least shivans won't get disgusted with him and quit his team.

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See, now THAT was sarcastic and a put down.

I think it needs two SOs to be perma. But, it can't be detoggled, and is cheaper in the long run in terms of endurance. All you need to worry about is recharge debuffs.

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Why is everyone (well half of you ) against me for posting this. I posted to learn a little more about freaks and to see if this was ok to do or not cause I didn't want to get banned for doing these missions . I'm sorry for all the trouble that I have caused and I will try to not post stuff like this again

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Why are we against you for posting this? Really?

Maybe because the Devs have told us, even before the MA was out, that it was not to be used for framing. They've told us several times since it's been released the same thing. They've taken action against people who have ignored this.

We've been inundated with threads about farming in the MA, and with threads dealing with the outcome of farming in the MA. We've had an official thread dealing with farming, and that STILL didn't prevent threads from popping up everywhere.

In short, we're tired of farming MA threads.

But, more specifically, your thread is akin to this:

The police tell everybody that it's illegal to steal cars. People have been protesting that that should be allowed to steal cars. The police ignore it and arrest people stealing cars. People who have been arrested are very vocal about their arrests for stealing cars. The police AGAIN tell people that it's illegal to steal cars. Then you stand outside the police station, with police officers around, and ask a passerby if they think it's okay to steal a Ford instead of a Nissan.

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actually it works the same way that practiced brawler does in SR and wet ice in Ice Armor. no need to change it.

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Wet Ice is a toggle power.

However, Ninjitsu's mez-protection power is also a click.

Strong Damage Resistance, combined with powerful ranged attacks?

Sounds awfully like a Tank-Mage, and would likely be too powerful.

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yes he did ,but you said it without the snarky comment. talking down to people is not a desired trait!

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Please show me where I was talking down to you, or being sarcastic.

You were not using good strategy to take down the pillboxes. Thus, you need to strategize better. That is neither an insult nor sarcastic. It is what it is.

I then told you a good example of a strategy that works. If you consider any of that insulting or sarcastic, I really don't know what to say.

Learn to strategize better. The pillboxes don't regen. Take them all down to a fraction of health, and then move on to the next one. Then take them all out in quick succession.

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(doesn't mean it isn't ... I just haven't heard of a whole slew of new devs working on something recently).

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Again, CoH: GR should prove you wrong there.

We have Devs devoted to keeping the current material up-to-date, and as bug-free as they can make it, along with adding new content within the current systems. Then we have a different set of Devs (maybe still reporting to the main ones, but most likely not the same ones) working on Going Rogue, which has new systems and diversity of content in it.


I'm sorry that you're not happy with the conent that we've been getting, but it is new content. Just because you don't like the format that it's taking doesn't make it not new content.

IOs and sets added a new way to build characters that can vastly change the way that characters can play. The MA allows you to build your own missions within a framework. How you can look at that and say that it's not content baffles me. Sure, the missions still exist within a limited framework, but it allows for a lot of new stories, which is exactly what a lot of people were complaining about before it came out. They were tired of doing the same missions over and over again. Now, we have a whole new system devoted to making new stories, and a lot of them are quite good new stories.

You seem to be saying that only new mechanisms within a mission is new content, and that's just not true.


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Unfortunately that's not (proven) to be enough to hold the majority of subscriber's attention for more then a few months at a clip.

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I'd also ask you to back this statement up, because I'm betting that you pulled it right from your rear end, to put it delicately. Neither you, nor I, know the average subscriber length here, nor what causes people to leave.

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I can keep going but I think my point is made. Marvel and DC have already implemented this idea in tons of their characters that "tank". Asking for it in a game which revolves around those heroes and said franchise isn't asking fot too much.

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Yes, it is. Those comics have to worry exactly jack squat about balance. The story tellers can make those characters as powerful or as weak as they want, pretty much on the fly.

As soon as this game has a mutable system that can adjust the enemy strengths and weaknesses on the fly, so that balance is achieved no matter what you do, then I'd say that it wouldn't be too much to ask for.

But without doing that, and implementing a system where Tankers can get a decent amount of blasts throughout the game, would lead to problems.

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It would have been nice if this had been happening since release, but its at least happening now.

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Well, at game release, how many people were working there? After CoV?

There's now about 50 people in the office, IIRC. More programmers generally means faster content, or the possibility of bigger things.

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3 EndRed and 1 Taunt. It requires nothing else to fulfill its role.

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Disagree strongly. Adding Acc and Damage to it can be a big help. The Debuff and base Taunt duration should keep anything but another Tanker from stealing aggro from you.

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right - it isn't that my tanker dies
it's that he sucks wind after every fight - or during the fight.

around lvl 8 I ran into a +1 lt and a minion and ran out of End fighting them. I had to run from the lt because I could no longer fight.

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Again, not a problem with your armor toggles at that level, but with your attacks.

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P.S. - Checking Mids ... 3 slotted Icicles with damage SOs puts it at 8.9 damage per tick in an 8' radius (which is painfully small btw).

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Not sure what you're doing in Mid's there, but Icicles does 8.9 damage per tic BASE. 3-slotting with SOs should bring it up to 17.444 damage per tic against an even-level foe.

This is the same damage as Death Shroud from Dark Armor, more damage than Mud Pots from Stone Armor, and slightly less damage than Blazing Aura from Fire Armor.

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Also to put it in perspective, Icicles costs twice the endurance of the most expensive Invuln toggle (.52/sec).

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It costs the same endurance as every other damage aura, just to put it into persepctive. Invuln and Willpower are cheaper because they don't do damage. Also, I've never had a problem running Icicles on my Icer, thanks to EA. I never run out of endurance with Icicles on or off, so I might as well run it.

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It also has a base accuracy of 75% which means you have to have an ACC SO just to get it to normal baseline toHit.

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NoFuture has Icicles as a 1.00 Acc power, meaning that final ToHit will be 75%, due to player ToHit being set at 75% in PvE, but makes it no different than other powers in terms of Acc. However, I do believe that you (and Mid's) are correct on this, and that the base accuracy is lower, but not at 0.75 Acc.



With just SOs, I slotted Icicles on my Tank with 2 Acc, 2 Dam, and 2 EndRed. That let me do a significant amount of damage with it on my Ice/Ice Tanker. With a heavier AoE-focused secondary, then the dynamic may change. I still think it's going to add up to do more damage than you think it does.

IO slotting on it will push it even further, allowing you to get more damage out of it without compromising Acc or EndRed.

The Scrapper will level faster solo than the Tanker will. Hands down.

If I was going to invest a lot of money into one of those, I'd pick the Fire/Fire Tank.

A Fire/Fire Tanker with soft-capped defenses can be pretty scary.

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Seriously.

To the OP: Run CE and Icicles on a second build and you'll see what I mean

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Icicles is endurance intensive, but once slotted, it's fine. It does far more damage than 8 per tic, as you mentioned earlier. Again, if you're leveraging your AoEs in the late game, Icicles will add up to do a startling amount of your total damage. Don't believe me? Run Herostats and find out for yourself.

CE, on the other hand, costs the same amount of endurance to run as your basic armors. It drops enemy damage by 5-14% right off the bat, and then drops it more once the -Recharge kicks in. At low levels, soloing, it is a great tool, because it can be run IN PLACE OF Frozen Armor if you want. You don't have to worry about herding during low level Ice/Macing anyways, because you won't have many AoEs, so you don't have to worry about the aggro is causes. You're going to be the focus of the enemy anyways.

Yes, people group outside of AE all the time.

If you're having trouble, you can do a few things:

1) Set your LFT comment to "No AE missions"

2) Form your own teams

3) Looking into Freedom's forum, and advertise for groups there (either by forming your own, or looking to join a group that is non AE-focused).

4) Get out of Atlas Park and look for teams elsewhere.

Only Burn has the fear component. If you don't want things running out of it, don't use it that often.

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Yeah, that's not gonna happen. 60% S/L resistance is about where Invuln Tankers are now, with two toggles running and a passive choice. No way are the Devs going to think it's balanced if you can get to the same point with no endurance cost.


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I just made the numbers up. I don't suggest actually increasing the res. Just swapping the passive and active.

so if passive gets you to 40% and the toggle gets you to 60% that's fine.

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Except, again, it's not gonna happen. There's a design decision to have clicks > toggles > passives. To make a passive better than a toggle in a specific case, there needs to be reasoning behind it. As Kruunch mentions, the endurance issue and weak shields pre-SOs aren't native to Invuln Tankers, they can be seen on most Tankers. Because of this, creating a solution for just one Tanker set, that violates a design decision, is highly, highly unlikely to happen.

I forgot about willpower, which is another good choice, as Kruunch mentions.

However, DB cannot be taken with Shields, so it is straight out.

For straight soloing? Probably either Invuln or Fire. /DB demands a decent amount of power choices be devoted to it to really get the most out of it. As such, pairing it with a fairly free Primary choice makes the most sense.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. 60% S/L resistance is about where Invuln Tankers are now, with two toggles running and a passive choice. No way are the Devs going to think it's balanced if you can get to the same point with no endurance cost.

Regardless, the toggles are the main endurance concern; the attacks are. Tanker attacks cost more than they should to execute.