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Quote:Or actually be creative and let Meg get into the middle of the fight, yelling "Get away from my mother, you villain!" and take the death-blow herself. That would have been tragic, and much more likely to elicit an emotional response from the players.I have to agree that Miss Liberty's death could have been handled much better than it was. Rather than have us beat up Manticore, why not let Miss L go down swinging in a fight against our villains?
Quote:I just hope that Statesman gets a better death which is about all you can hope for. -
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Quote:We'll see. Thanks for trying to cheer me upZem: don't get too frustrated. The gaming industry has had great success in recent years executing Player Punches... that is, hits aimed at the PLAYER instead of (just) the character. That's what's happening here, and while I don't expect it all to be "just a dream" or anything like that, we're up against someone who uses your worst nightmares against you and is Genre-Savvy at that. Mark my words: Malaise is not dead, and there's a lot more here going on than what people believe.
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This is what happens when Sephiroth gets to murder Princess Peach...
Now don't get me wrong, Final Fantasy VII is probably my favorite game ever, and I love it like no other. I still want to kick Sephiroth's butt everytime I hear his name. Mario 64, however, was the most pleasant, rewarding game I'll ever play, bar none, and everytime I think back to it I can't help but grin like an idiot. All I did was jump around nd slide down sewer drains while trying to rescue a mushroom princess from a turtle, but I just can't get past how wonderful it felt. That said, both were awesome games, but a crossover between the two would have been horrible. And yet, against all logic, that's exactly what's happening here.
Sephiroth murdered Princess Peach, and a little bird told me he's going for Mario next. Aeris just found out Luigi's cheating on her, and killed Toad in a mad fit. In the meantime, Cloud's doing nothing but watch from the sidelines, he can't do anything but watch...
I adored Jack Emmert's Paragon City, the place where everything goes right or serendipity takes over, just as I loved Matt Miller's Praetoria, that dark, gritty and morally challenging 1984 wasteland, but sometimes when two worlds collide all that's left is one big ugly mess.
Does anyone still feel like a hero in Paragon City? I mean, at least Cyrus went down fighting, Alexis just let herself be kidnapped and wacked without lifting a finger. She's Miss Liberty, for crying out loud! And what's with Sister Psycho executing Malaise in front of my toon while he does nothing? Statesman's death might create alot of vigilantes, but it may also make at least one hero hang his cape.
Quote:Sorry, Jack, I no longer believe this is true. Paragon City as you left it is dead. Here's your badge back.Walking the Path Badge - You strove for what you believe in and, against all odds, came out on top. You've earned the Walking the Path badge by completing your first Alignment Mission. -
We should probably "sticky" this thread, this question is posted at least twice a week
To the original poster, I don't really have a clear answer. They're not as bad as their rap, and do solo relatively well at high level, but they're a pain to level and definitely still below par regarding what most other ATs can offer to a team. To make things worse, general perception counts as much as actual live performance, and Peacebringers' reputation has been in the gutter ever since they went live back in pre-history.
A little buff to lightform and innerlight won't change most players' minds, and you'll still come across "ITF speed run forming, no stalkers or PBs, please!" being broadcasted every night. While you can just say to yourself, "these guys are idiots and I'm better off not teaming with them anyway!", the fact remains that they're still having fun and you're left alone playing by yourself. Numbers alone don't warrant rolling a PB under these conditions.
Their concept, however, is awesome, playing the avatar of a benevolent cosmic entity with access to a unique storyline, and that alone should be reason enough to try a PB -
What if Statesman doesn't die in Arc #5 after all, and Zwil just goes, aha! Gotcha!
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Quote:Shoot!After browsing through the forums for a bit, I am seriously re-thinking my Peacebringer build. However, I am not certain about many things, so I have quite a few questions.
Quote:#1: What is the minimum requirements to get Perma-Lightform? CoH planner won't work on my computer, so I can only gather so much info from build pages.
- Hint - You should factor in Hasten's +70% while it's running, and possibly the Spiritual Alpha Incarnate Slot, so don't let the numbers frighten you. My advice is to run tip missions / SSAs and try to stack hero merits, then trade them for 5 LotG +7.5% rech (Luck of the Gambler, a rare defense set IO). Or, on a much cheaper note, 6-slot the inexpensive Kinetic Crash IOs into your attacks for the 7.5% recharge bonus.
Quote:#2: Is it worth it to make a human-only build if you are *not* going for a perma-lightform?
- Hint - Unlike, say, perma-domination, Lightform isn't an all-or-nothing power. It's very useful to run even if it's not up all the time. With just 3 lvl 50 recharge SOs and no global recharge at all, it lasts for 90 seconds and recharges in 150, creating a manageable cooldown window of 60 seconds. Add 3-slotted Hasten, and the cooldown window decreases even further. I'm not saying dual-forms isn't more useful at this point, but human form is viable none-the-less.
Quote:#3: Likewise, aside from the benefits of usage in low levels, is there any advantages to Nova/Dwarf form in high levels now?
- Hint - Human-only power builds are useful because it allows you to combine 4 things:
. perma-lightform for capped resistances,
. perma-innerlight for a 30% damage bonus with a 100% spike every few seconds,
. perma-boost essence for capped HP,
. the ability to run combat jumping/combat flight/weave/maneuvers to boost your defenses.
That said, aside from the defensive boost you get from running the pool toggles, nothing prevents you from using Hasten, Inner Light, Light Form and Essence Boost in a Nova/Dwarf build. Nova with capped resistances and max HP is pretty sturdy, and can pump respectable amounts of damage by itself. Dwarf has access to auto-hit taunt, making it the preferable tanking form. The problem is that you have to shift out of a form to click the boosts, which is retarded, but if you're familiar with weapon redraw it shouldn't be that different. Also, IMO, Nova/Dwarf dual-form exemplars much better.
Quote:#4: Has there been any talk of tweaking/buffing/editing the Nova/Dwarf form of PBs?
- Rule of thumb - Never pick an AT or build based on what you hear might be buffed/revamped in the future, as chances are you'll be disappointed. Instead, look at what's currently on live servers and make a decision on whether or not an AT/build is to your liking.
Quote:Thanks for your time. -
Quote:That's what they said about arc #3, but it seems Alexis' death was not enough. My guess is that neither will Statesman's death, they'll just keep adding corpses in #6 and #7. Gotta keep the bodycount up, 'cause it seems they can't think of anything else to keep things interesting...One would assume the entire point of killing Statesman in arc five means that there's two left for the heroes to win in the end.
Besides, how do heroes get to "win" in #6 and #7 if people keep dying in the previous arcs? Does arresting the bad guys for a second before they teleport away somehow make things right? -
What's the point of playing these SSA's blueside? They've been on auto-failure since pretty much the beginning. I'm guessing there's something wrong with the Streak Breaker, because heroes are getting way too many critical failures. On that note, I'd be worried about MARTy if I were a villain. Of course, you could consider simply renaming blueside to City of Losers...
Spoilers:
#1 - Villains steal Synapse's powers for tasty temp powers - Heroes get to watch
#2 - Villains ransom off Numina's father for a tasty temp power - Heroes get to watch
#3 - Villains murder Statesman's spawn - Heroes get to watch
#4 - Villains seal Sister Psycho's persona inside her own head - Heroes get to watch
#5 - Villains kill Statesman and steal his powers - Heroes get to watch
#6 - Villains help Wade become the Death Incarnate in Dark Astoria - Heroes get to watch
#7 - Villains realize they're over their head and get Infernia to restore Hero 1's sanity - Heroes crouch by the corner and cry...
Zwil, I'm seriously tempted to create a blueside hero in Zukunft just so I don't distracted by all the soap drama you keep shoving down my throat. ::Thumbs Down::
P.S. "Daddy, can you fly to heaven?" I'm hoping that semi-quote from the Freedom Phalanx novel means that Statesman is about to pull a Manticore and commit suicide in order to retrieve Alexis from heaven. If it's just more handkerchief marketting I'll be seriously disappointed. Where did all the fun in this game go, it's all funerals and grief lately... -
The main problem with dual-forms is that you have to switch back to human to use any of the seemingly infinite booster clicks Peacebringers have (Inner Light, Lightform, Hasten, Reform Essence, Boost Essence, Photon Seekers, Conserve Power, etc), which makes human-only form more efficient.
If that doesn't bother you, however, if you can live with shifting back into human every 20 seconds or so for buffs, Nova and Dwarf pretty much replicate human forms' powers (with the exception of Glinting Eye, inexplicably missing from Dwarf form's repertoire) and greatly benefit from Light-form's capped resistances (missing psy resistance, but still pretty tough).
I use dual forms all the time to flashback, myself. -
I wish Kheldians were allowed to take part in the Galaxy City tutorial, even if they were "forced" to save Blue Spectrum.
I wish a Warshade's Gravimetric Snare had a better animation that doesn't make me feel like I'm playing beach volley.
I wish Dwarf and Nova forms had an extra attack in their repertoire.
I wish Nova form's AoE attacks had faster animations.
I wish Dwarf form had some measure of Endurance Drain resistance.
I wish the shield toggles would be changed into passive abilities so they don't drop everytime I shift into a form.
I wish Cosmic Balance and Dark Sustenance offered Mag 4 status protection while soloing.
I wish to be able to prevent Voids, Quantums and Cysts from spawning while soloing by speaking to a Hero Corps' Notoriety Contact.
I wish there was a lvl 50 story arc mission for Kheldians, both hero side and villain side.
I wish you all a merry merry Christmas -
Quote:No, that strikes me as a responsible development decision. "Ok, guys, we know Peacebringers need help, but right now we're busy fixing other things. Here's a quick bandaid until we have time to sort out your issues."So in your opinion, the developers decided to spend time buffing light form, after a very positive reaction from the player base, just so that they could get ready to nerf it again? That strikes me as a waste of resources and a good way to make a lot of people pretty irked.
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Three quick notes.
1) Dual Nova/Dwarf spec offers alot of versibility and exemplars really well in Ouroboros or when teaming with lower level players, so I wouldn't say the forms are useless even at lvl 50. Still, that I found a potential use for the forms doesn't invalidate the need to buff them, if merely for fairness and quality of life issues. Black Dwarf is so ridiculously stronger than White Dwarf that it makes me wonder if they were even designed for the same game.
2) While I won't mind if MFing Tri-form builds with 30+ buttons become viable for Peacebringers, that's not what I'm really asking for - and I'd be really disappointed if MFing macro-mashing-mayhem becomes the sole mandatory build. I want simplicity. I want each form to be valid on its own, from lvl 1 to 50. If I'm taking damage, Dwarf. If I have a tank pulling aggro from me, Nova. If I'm soloing a normal challenge, Human. Regarding this issue, all forms, even human, could use a serious revision.
3) Lightform. It's nice, but it's also absurd for an AT to have its entire playstyle completely dependant on a single power. We all know where it leads, because we've seen what happened to Energy Transfer and Psychic Shockwave. Lightform is a bandaid, and one we shouldn't be overly attached to. For the purpose of these discussions, I'd avoid falling back into the counter-argument "yes, but we have lightform", because that counter might not remain valid for long. -
Quote:I came on a little too strong. Sorry.Nope, not intending to argue- I think Pilgrim knows I totally respect his opinions, just wanted to express mine.
Quote:Which is negated once you Perma Light Form, which provides status protection, and have a high defense human form build after that.
Again, Peacebringers (and warshades) lack mez protection from lvl 10 onwards, unlike the VEATs, because they have access to White (and black) Dwarf. The least they could do is make sure White Dwarf is worth the sacrifice.
Quote:Once again: Forms are extremely useful, and should never be removed, in my opinion- They are vital for the level up process. -
Quote:Low level? White Dwarf is a lvl 20 power. Are you trying to win an argument or something?I wouldn't put it on "the same level" either, because the Peacebringer forms are much more useful than the immobilize powers even at an early level. Seems the only thing you are saying is that Peacebringers have the benefit of getting even more out of the level up journey from their low tier powers than most other AT's do, and I'd call that a bargain.
Shapeshifting is what makes Kheldians unique, a fundamental, Archetype defining ability, just like Assassin Strike for stalkers. Moreso, Kheldians pay a high price for access to those forms. "No mez protection because you have Dwarf" argument, for starters. Therefore, it shouldn't surprise you that every reasonable player would want the forms to remain useful from level 1-50 - and right now, by your own admission, they aren't useful at all. That is a serious AT design problem that should have been corrected a long time ago, since this problem dates back several years already.
Either buff the forms or scrap every drawback in human form that arose from their existence. It can obviously wait, but dragging this Seinfeldian status-quo till issue 32 is only going to make more people angry. -
Quote:I meant an extra Aoe (human form gets 3, Nova could get another one as well), but I simply copy-pasted what I had written for dwarf and forgot to change it ^_^Not sure if Nova needs another ST attack as much as it needs more damage given to its ST attacks. I can use the two STs and the Cone for a good ST chain that doesn't drain my end and is pretty much continuous, and I don't really have tons of global recharge (maybe... 40%, and not always up Hasten). I could see it helping Dwarf more, though.
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Quote:This would work, but changing the forms' slotting into pet powers would require a few additional changes, because right now you have to slot dwarf for resistance, so there's no slots left to boost damage/accuracy/recharge/endredux as well.
6. Pet style
The forms are slotted the same as pet powers are now. Allowing: accuracy, damage, recharge, end reduction (and Nova gets the option of range and Dwarf gets the option of taunt).
Eg. Adding damage enhancements to the form power adds damage to all attacks. Adding recharge enhancements adds recharge to all attacks.
Dwarfs would accept melee or PBAoE sets. Nova would accept ranged damage or TAoE sets.
There's no need to slot individual powers from the forms. Ones that cannot be enhanced directly are already at a reasonable level (Dwarf Step, etc).
This would also make the forms more useful earlier on (since you wouldn't be stuck with a Dwarf form with one slotted attack for how many levels). And it gives the devs the option of adding another attack to PB Dwarf for a full attack chain without meaning even more slot crunch.
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My issue is that even if forms are attractive, they have to be attractive enough to justify the current massive investment of slots (and time to shapeshift, retoggle, etc, but all that can be reduced). I can't see a way for that to happen without making one or more of the forms overpowered. So I'd reduce the number of slots required.
Folks who want to use form powers as set mules can go take another power.
But if you removed the possibility of slotting resistance enhancements in dwarf and simply boosted the inherent resistance in the power to ED levels, the net result would be the same (37.5% to 60% resistance, no res slotting).
This idea would definitely break the cottage rule, but the change would be overall positive so I'd definitely support it. -
Quote:No one really sees it as overpowered, but for a dev it's much quicker to simply tweet an inflamatory excuse than to actually rewrite the code of a power ingameTHATS what pisses me off.. the disparity in what is seen as overpowered...
Pulsar - Mag 2 changed to Mag 3
Solar Flare - Knockback changed to Knockdown
Incandescent Strike - Hold changed to Stun
White Dwarf - Add another Single Target attack, form-shifting cast time reduced to 1 sec
Bright Nova - Add another Aoe attack, form-shifting cast time reduced to 1 sec
Shields - Toggles changed to passives
Cosmic Balance - Also gives Mag 4 mez protection when soloing, loses 1 mag for each player in the team
- Peacebringer problems solved. -
Quote:Are you saying that Peacebringers still need major help? Because while I personally might not find the changes all that suitable for me, I don't really agree with that assessment.Quote:Well suppression isn't important for Peacebringers as they stand now because there's no point in even having forms at level 50.
If anyone sees Arbiter Hawke on the street, shake his hand for me for daring to look into Kheldians. And tell him to buff the forms, please -
Quote:Have you heard of dual builds yet, accessible at trainers like Ms. Liberty? I find that when exemplaring the Dwarf/Nova Biform is more useful than pre-lightform human. Dual builds will let you keep your human form when you're playing lvl 50 missions, and when joining lower level teams it just takes a second to select your second build and access Nova or Dwarf forms.Yeah I exemp a TON. My friends really love weekly strikes and stuff and TFs so I end up way bellow 50 pretty often. I never build for a specific level range cause I dont like being surprized by stuff.
Just a thought. -
A pity this will never happen. I'd absolutely take it over what we have now, slotting a Tri-form is just too painful.
I still say we should just slot the forms themselves rather than the forms' powers individually, but this would work. -
Good idea, Bionut911. Everyone leaves their feedback without counter-post bickering. I'll just talk about peacebringers, though. Plenty of people here more qualified to speak of "redeemed" Nictus.
01-05 - Human form only
06-19 - Nova form only, using (unslotted) Human-form's Nemesis staff to deal with Voids and Quantums
20-38 - Dwarf/Nova Biform, Dwarf solo, either Dwarf or Nova on teams
39-50 - Dual build, keeping the Dwarf/Nova Biform for teams, soloing with Human-only Lightform.
No Tri-forms ever for Peacebringers, there's not enough slots available. Ditto for dual forms other than Dwarf/Nova, not enough slots for my tastes. Regardless, the forms offer nothing that human lightform doesn't already have except taunt.
Early on, the lack of mez protection in human form, coupled with the proliferation of stunning/knockbacking voids makes it undesirable until lightform is optimized and running most of the time (no sooner than lvl 39, more than half of a character's leveling experience). From level 20 to 39, the slow and clunky Dwarf form the best viable soloing option. In teams, Dwarf and Nova fill in for whatever role the task requires, and during the lower levels (or while exemplared to lvl 14, for example) Dwarf might even be sturdier than a regular tanker.
Post lvl 40 the forms' effectiveness decays significantly to well-slotted ATs, so I usually favor human lightform for extra damage/survivability, unless the team expects me to tank.
Quote:- What is "wrong" with Peacebringers?
Worse, merely pressing the Dwarf form button will not make a kheldian a tank, not without proper slotting to boost resistances, taunt efficiency and accuracy/damage of the form's attacks. A situation similar to a Warrior not being able to switch from his DPS gear to Tank gear midbattle. Dual builds help, but these only offer a choice before entering the mission, thus limiting Kheldians' actual adaptability. For a Peacebringer, the best viable multi-role build I could come up with was Dwarf/Nova Biform, performing significantly weaker as a Tank/DPS than would a simple Tanker and a Blaster. Human-only form's role is akin to an epic scrapper (with access to epic pools' ranged attacks and AoE), but doing alot less damage and only reaching a similar level of survivability by lvl 39.
Finally, by merely joining a team they're actually endangering everyone. Voids and Cysts spawn unpredictably, which can lead to spectacular failures during the final fight of a taskforce or trial. Fighting Harbinger and Riptide is hard enough without a million puffs of black smoke slowing everyone down. When playing anything but a Kheldian on a team that's one member short, I often find myself secretly hoping that whoever's signing up to join us ISN'T a Kheldian. They just bring too much trouble for their worth.
Regarding White Dwarf:
- it lacks a taunt aura, and it cannot access power pools to take Presence,
- its resistances are capped at 85% rather than 90%,meaning it will take 50% more damage than a tanker from an enemy's attacks,
- it cannot access power pools to boost its defenses by taking Weave, CJ, etc
- it suffers from being force to cycle 2 ST attacks and an AoE, leaving it with a clunky attack chain full of pauses
- it doesn't have any sort of those debuff resistances that tankers have (lacking endurance-drain resistance is particularly painful)
- it can't fly, even when certain missions require it
- activating White Dwarf's transformation takes several seconds, during which the Kheldian is highly vulnerable to enemy fire
- There's no visual customization, they all look the same (why not color changes, or a Warwolf instead of a crustacean?)
Regarding Bright Nova:
- it lacks the third, stronger ST attack that blasters have, leaving it with a weak, clunky ST attack chain
- it lacks the hard-hitting melee atacks of a blaster
- it lacks the poweful damage-boosting abilities of a blaster (aim+build-up combo)
- it lacks the mitigation tools blasters have available, which include shields in the epic pools, plus toughness/weave/aid self/etc
- it's essencially a watered-down version of a blaster primary with hover as a secondary
- it takes too long to activate Bright Nova's form, making it unnefficient to switch mid-fight
- There's no visual customization, they all look the same (why not color changes, or energy wings that don't hide your character's costume instead of a flying squid)
Quote:- What's wrong with Warshades?
Quote:- What's wrong with the respective human forms?
- lacks Mez protection for 38 levels, until it gets lightform
- offers only minimal Mez protection even while running lightform, significantly weaker than what is made available to all other ATs that have access to an armor secondary (brutes, scrappers, stalkers, tankers, VEATs)
- is particularly affected by Voids and Quantums' ability to Stun and Knockback
- doesn't do enough ranged damage, the base damage modifier of its ranged attacks (Gleaming Bolt and Glinting Eyes) is just too low
- suffers from exceedingly long animations on certain life-or-death powers, like Boost Essence, Pulsar or Incandescent Strike
- unlike a Warshade, lacks synergy between its two mezzing powers (Pulsar - Stun, Incandescent Strike - Hold)
- has excessive knockback in its AoEs (as opposed to the much more appreciated knockdown)
- is hampered by the complete uselessness of its shields, none of which matter after you've gotten light-form, that detoggle every time you switch to a form, that cost too much endurance for what little they bring, that require too many slots to be optimal, that you can't customize for minimal FX
- lacks customization of its powers
Quote:- How do they, if at all, compare to VEATs
Visually, they're both ok. Could both use a little customization. While VEATs animations aren't to my liking (I'd prefer the Dual Blades animations instead of claws/spines for widows, for example), I love the Arachnos uniforms and their flowing capes/butt capes. Kheldian forms are ugly, but you get used to them, and while the animations are simply recicled versions of the old vanilla powersets, the lighting effects are very beautiful.
In terms of official canon and plot missions, Peacebringers are on another galaxy. The VEAT storyline is by far the least inspired piece of writing in the game, on par with the plot of Tetris or Space Invaders. For the most part, the game completely ignores that you work/worked for Recluse, blatantly so - you have contacts (like Dr. Graves) telling your toon (in uniform!) not to mention any of his nefarious plots to Arachnos... Kheldians, on the other hand, have some of the most complex, well-written stories in the game, and they get to save the world in the end.
All said and done, I'd settle for the addition of either a single attack to each of the Peacebringer's forms, or giving Mez protection to human form by lvl 10. That alone would make the leveling experience smoother. -
Just a quick update, since I just finished the villain side of SSA Episode 3.
Darrin Wade's assessment of the situation was correct, the plot to murder Alexis Cole was a deep blow struck against the Freedom Phalanx, Statesman, Manticore, Ms. Liberty, and any hero players who undertook that mission (including some rogues, who probably felt they should have stopped the murder rather than let it happen in front of them). Launching a nuke at Paragon City was just icing on the cake for a true bloodthirsty villain.
Wade's also correct in predicting that Statesman's response will be to take a break for a few years, get his priorities straight, and I think I'll do the same. All this negativity is getting to me. Who knows, maybe City of Heroes will lighten up when the whole Praetorian saga is over.
Anyway, R.I.P. Alexis Cole. Thanks for all your generous love and thanks for all the fun. -
Thugs looking like those Crey black suits would be peachy. I don't really like the motard look, especially after lvl 20 when a Mastermind should have been moving up in life.
The thing that bugs me the most, however, is that even if you name (rename) a minion, his appearance is dramatically altered every time you resummon them. Worse, once you get the 3rd minion (say, the flamethrower guy from Thugs or the medic from Mercs), you have no way to ensure that the minion's name is tied to his special abilities. Naming the medic Mr. Patch-it is useless, because the next time you resummon your minions there's a 2/3 chance that the name Mr. Patch-it will be given to a regular rifle-wielding merc instead.
The ability to lock a minion's appearance and special abilities to his name would be a start.