A Crazy Idea That'll Never Happen.

Insomnia is the bane of my existence, but I do tend to have my best ideas when im trying to sleep and my brain wont let me. Cant take full credit for it as it was mostly something someone else said in another thread a week or so ago that set my mind to wandering like this. Anyways, on to the idea that'll never happen.


So hear me out, what if we removed the forms?

Yes, yes, im a madman, and it'll never happen. Ive already told you that myself; but thats oversimplifying the already rather simple idea. Besides, we aren't actually "removing the forms", just changing them into something more like stances out of other MMO's. I mean, theres really not THAT much difference between a tanker with the pyro epic pool and a dwarf who can use Gleaming Blast. The dwarf just has a slightly better set of ranged abilities. A Nova who can radiant strike is just finally embracing his blapper roots, and blaster's have toggle shields in their epic pools too.

The nitty gritty of the idea is that Dwarf and Nova become toggles, just like they are now but you wouldn't get locked out of your human form powers. So Dwarf would provide status protection, +MaxHP, less resistance than it does now, but still a little. Nova would provide flight, tohit, and a damageboost. Same as they do now, just without the extra powers and lockout of everything but the extra powers.

Everything that would need to be changed to make this work already technically exists too. Dwarf and nova would just change our models like Granite does, so we'd keep those. We would just have all our human form powers while IN the forms to compensate for the loss of the 8 or 9 we're given automatically when taking the forms like we do now. They're mostly clones of abilities we already had in human form anyways. Our old nemesis slot starvation would vanish in an instant. You could also treat the forms like the swap ammo powers from dual pistols, adding or removing a flag from our basic attacks (Like gauntlet taunt from attacks while in dwarf, or extra energy damage while in nova).

It solves the want for "human form mez prot" since they're effectively sharing the human form powers. No more having to wonder about the possibility of toggle suppression in forms either since there'd be no need. Light form retains its usefulness, the forms stop being quite so useless.

It doesn't solve all the problems, but it'd definitely make a dent in a lot. We can probably list off the pro's of this idea for a couple pages.


The Con's though, there are a couple major ones I can think of. The first is we'd need some animation work. Mainly providing animations for melee powers in Nova. Personally, id go for a tail slap for radiant strike, and sorta swooping dive for incandescent strike. Dwarf is a little easier since its still a humanoid skeleton, but there'd probably need to be tweaks all the same.

The second is that this is a rather LARGE change. It kicks down the cottage and while the forms would still be the same general idea, it is a pretty heavy revamp of the kheldians as we'd know them. In my opinion for the better, but I obviously cant speak for everyone.

The third major Con is that there'd probably need to be a heavy eye kept towards balance. This one change in concept has given dwarves a respectable ranged attack chain, and Nova some pretty hefty resistance (Not that it doesnt already have it with Light form/eclipse) and healing. I dont THINK it would throw things TOO far out of whack, but im just an armchair developer, so all my ideas need a couple grains of salt with them.

That brings us to the FOURTH major con, and the biggest. It kinda sorta technically invalidates human form entirely. I mean, why be in human when you can be in dwarf and be alot sturdier with all your human powers like normal? Why be in human when you can blast harder in nova and still keep all your shields? This one I've not really got an answer for, its not an insurmountable problem, but its one where you'd have to figure out some way of making human (and dwarf to a lesser extent) worthwhile in comparison to Nova with Lightform/Eclipse.


Anyways, that's the insomnia and sleep addled mind at work. The idea is almost TOO simple, and that's probably its downfall. The forms have always been a major part of AT, but also a noose around our necks. They'd still serve the same purpose but restriction and "clunk" are lost in equal measure. No more double mire, no more double reconstruction clone, no more spamming our Nova AoE's then our human AoE's, no more port in, solar flare, drop to human, solar flare. It'd definitely streamline our Kheld's as we know them, but we'd lose some of our workaround's and "little tricks" we've gathered over the years. We'd gain some new ones though.

Ill leave the rest of this discussion up to you all though.

Well, it is a great idea. That's why it already has been presented quite a few times I've suggested before that the forms simply act as modifiers (with a flashy visible component) to Human's powers and stats.

Dwarf would basically 'Turn you into a Tank'. It would raise your HP and Resistance, but lower your damage modifier.

Nova would 'Make you a Blaster'; reducing your HP and resistance, but amping up your damage.

Human form would remain somewhere in the middle. I still think it would be useful and maybe even a preferred choice.

None of the forms would have innate powers themselves, but must use whatever you've selected for Human.

There are thematic issues (such as should Dwarf really be able to fly?) But still I think this is way it should have been done from the beginning.

Oh, and your thread title is appropriate - this is never going to happen haha

I was actually thinking about something similar to this earlier, though it was more along the lines of making the click powers (like Essence Boost, Inner Light, Conserve Power, etc.) on PBs usable while in Forms. Essentially, narrowing the gap between Human and Form builds.

Ultimately, however, I don't think the suggestion presented in the OP would even be talked about if the transformation times were shorter. If they were <1 sec, you could simply jump to and from Forms as needed, rather than assessing if you have time or not mid-battle.

I wouldn't mind the OP's suggestion occurring but, as stated, it will never happen. Melee Novas make me chuckle but ranged Dwarfs make me shudder (i.e. they'd probably become very powerful without major nerfs to survivability).

If I could re-tool the original idea (mainly for PBs since I have no experience with WS), I think what I would do is allow Nova and Dwarf to use the universal buff powers available to Human as-is but then make Human-form "duplicate" powers for the Forms give bonuses to the Form powers. For example, let's say you took Luminous Detonation for Human and slotted it up, something like 50% of the bonuses from those enhancements get applied to Nova Detonation (and more importantly, it ignores ED). So if your Human form is rocking 96% +damage, your Nova Detonation gets its normal enhancement bonuses and then an additional 48% Damage because you slotted up the Human form.

To keep things from getting over the top, only certain types of enhancement bonuses from the "duplicates" would help the Nova/Dwarf powers. It wouldn't be universal but more in-line with what the Forms are trying to accomplish anyway.

So, if you went Bi-Form, you could theoretically make the Form of your choice a lot more powerful (while also benefiting your Human form, it's just gravy). Tri-Form would need some clever slotting to get the most benefit.

Also, as a side-idea, Photon Seekers and Dawn Strike would be available in both Forms. Obviously, Dawn Strike would be more powerful as a Nova but you'd also have to get in close without any real protection.

To clarify: this is the bonus enhancement values above and beyond 100% of the base power. So if do not have any enhanced value in the power, the Form power gains no benefit. Here's a breakdown of how I see it working

Nova - 50% (ignores ED) of Damage/Recharge/Accuracy/Range bonuses from the following powers carry-over from Human to their Nova counterparts:

Gleaming Bolt -> Nova Bolt
Glinting Eye -> Nova Blast (I know Gleaming Blast shares the namesake but Eye and N. Blast have way more in common)
Proton Scatter -> Nova Scatter
Luminous Detonation -> Nova Detonation
+ Nova can now use Inner Light, Conserve Power, Essence Boost, Photon Seekers and Dawn Strike

Dwarf - 50% (ignores ED) of Resistance/Recharge/Endurance/Accuracy/Knockback from the following:

Shining Shield -> Dwarf S/L Resist
Thermal Shield -> Dwarf F/C Resist
Quantum Sheld -> Dwarf E/N Resist
Essence Boost (Toxic Resist portion) -> Dwarf Toxic Resist
Radiant Strike -> Dwarf Strike
Incandescent Strike -> Dwarf Smite
Solar Flare -> Dwarf Flare
+ Dwarf can now use Inner Light, Essence Boost, Conserve Power, Photon Seekers and Dawn Strike

What remains as Human-only? Any Pool Power, Glowing Touch, Pulsar, Quantum Acceleration/Flight, Reform Essence (doesn't boost Dwarf Sublimation), Gleaming Blast (no analog on either Dwarf/Nova), Restore Essence (by necessity) and Light Form.

Hopefully this isn't a de-rail but it's slightly less "destroy-the-cottage" than the OP's idea, if only because you don't "have" to use the bonus carry-over if you don't want and nothing technically changes from what we have now.

This would make Khelds a lot more fun to play. I assure you.

The idea is slightly similar to what the stances sound like for Dual Pistols or even the little bit we can figure out about the Staff Weapon set that they are working on.

I dunno. I'm not really in favor of the "toggle" idea, as I actually do like the idea of forms. There's some tactical consideration to it and makes for a quite unique playstyle. I am, however, more than in favor of getting the forms to work better and to not turn off human form toggles (maybe just ignore them, etc.). I know we can't quite point to other games, but I do think form type characters work better in other MMOs.

We should be able to move smoothly and easily from one to the next form: the drawbacks are from being locked into that particular form. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as it isn't a huge pain to switch forms, which it certainly can be right now.

I'd remove the form simply because I don't like them. I would either remove them and add another utility power or just take them out completely and add something else to Kheldians. In the end with the recent changes there isn't anything wrong with either of them so I can't see the devs doing much else to them power-wise.

A pity this will never happen. I'd absolutely take it over what we have now, slotting a Tri-form is just too painful.

I still say we should just slot the forms themselves rather than the forms' powers individually, but this would work.