I hate to say this...but, I think it's really over for our beloved game.
Quote:
Hardly. I may attack other posters arguments, but I believe I am very good about not attacking the poster unless they start making it personal. Of course, some posters have a hard time separating the idea of someone attacking their argument from that of someone attacking them personally.
Oh I got it, without your opinion they would suffer in ignorance, and if they don't get it fast enough why should you be polite?
|
I've pointed out how your very early forays into this thread involved rather passive-aggressive ad hominem attacks on other posters. I notice you haven't responded to that in the least.
Quote:
In case you haven't noticed I have no problem with being confrontational. It's the part where you can't own up to being wrong that makes you a jackass. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Unh hunh. I think you have defined yourself pretty well in this thread.
Hardly. I may attack other posters arguments, but I believe I am very good about not attacking the poster unless they start making it personal. Of course, some posters have a hard time separating the idea of someone attacking their argument from that of someone attacking them personally.
I've pointed out how your very early forays into this thread involved rather passive-aggressive ad hominem attacks on other posters. I notice you haven't responded to that in the least. There's a whole lot of burden of proof missing here. For me to own up to being wrong, someone needs to offer something that at least makes it look like that might be the case. So far, you have made only one specific claim to try and make such a case about anything I've said, and it was trivially shot down. Try harder. |
Quote:
VIP access to the forums, $0-30 prior to Sept 19.
Unh hunh. I think you have defined yourself pretty well in this thread.
|
Seeing a self-professed forum dodger being the very thing they purport to hate: priceless.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
VIP access to the forums, $0-30 prior to Sept 19.
Seeing a self-professed forum dodger being the very thing they purport to hate: priceless. |
Or WHY YOU MAD BRO ?
Quote:
Simple: I'm not doing that. I think your accusations are ridiculous. You think my eyes are planks. I know my eyes just are unfamiliar to you.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
|
Of course, if that's sawdust in your eyes, I also think you ought to get checked for termites.
Quote:
Or WHY YOU MAD BRO ? |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
That is why you just wrote the abridged version of war and peace, to defend yourself to a random guy on the internet ? Stubborn ? more like insecure.
Simple: I'm not doing that. I think your accusations are ridiculous. You think my eyes are planks. I know my eyes just are unfamiliar to you.
Of course, if that's sawdust in your eyes, I also think you ought to get checked for termites. People often confuse dogged responses with high emotions. It's silly. I'm not mad. I'm just stubborn. |
Quote:
Tenacious? Bored? Business as usual?
That is why you just wrote the abridged version of war and peace, to defend yourself to a random guy on the internet ? Stubborn ? more like
|
Quote:
insecure. |
I'd just like to point out, PPC, that you have at this point passed arguing about the argument, and are now arguing about the argument that was about the argument.
Welcome to the forums. Ever play a Scrapper?
![](http://www.deviantart.com/download/325051840/save_out_city_banner_small_for_forums_by_greenlantern24601-d5dizls.jpg)
Quote:
Yeah... and we should all have so much faith in your (or pretty much anyone's) ability to judge other people based on a text medium. At least Fan and I have been arguing for years, literally. Forgive me if I don't assume Johnny-come-lately knows what he's talking about, especially when he refuses to say anything quantitative.
That is why you just wrote the abridged version of war and peace, to defend yourself to a random guy on the internet ? Stubborn ? more like insecure.
|
(By the way, want to expand on the correlation between writing the abridged version of war and peace and being insecure? I bet it'll be fascinating.)
Trust me, if I was insecure, I wouldn't be jumping with both feet into stuff like the threads I've linked here. Or this one.
So, are you going to just stick to the sound bites, or are you actually going to try and make some defensible arguments about why I was factually wrong in that old thread, or even in this thread. Repeating that I was wrong every third post or so doesn't make it true. So far this is more like one of those "no, you" arguments that my kid cousins get into than an actual argument. You don't happen to be 12 years old, do you?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I laughed in real life thanks.
Tenacious? Bored? Business as usual?
Ah, and door number three wins again. I'd just like to point out, PPC, that you have at this point passed arguing about the argument, and are now arguing about the argument that was about the argument. Welcome to the forums. Ever play a Scrapper? |
You got me, Scrappers were my favorites before you could make blue side Brutes.
Quote:
Ooh. I have formulas showing the equivalency for a given time-to-defeat. Shall I go get them?
I don't think I've reminded Hopeling recently how much it annoys me that he compares -maxHP to -Res.
|
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I just call em like I see em.
Yeah... and we should all have so much faith in your (or pretty much anyone's) ability to judge other people based on a text medium. At least Fan and I have been arguing for years, literally. Forgive me if I don't assume Johnny-come-lately knows what he's talking about, especially when he refuses to say anything quantitative.
(By the way, want to expand on the correlation between writing the abridged version of war and peace and being insecure? I bet it'll be fascinating.) Trust me, if I was insecure, I wouldn't be jumping with both feet into stuff like the threads I've linked here. Or this one. So, are you going to just stick to the sound bites, or are you actually going to try and make some defensible arguments about why I was factually wrong in that old thread, or even in this thread. Repeating that I was wrong every third post or so doesn't make it true. So far this is more like one of those "no, you" arguments that my kid cousins get into than an actual argument. You don't happen to be 12 years old, do you? |
You're the one who thought your argument with fan was some sort of monumental achievement and blew up when told you both look like dorks.
Quote:
Citation needed.
I just call em like I see em.
You're the one who thought your argument with fan was some sort of monumental achievement |
What I seem to recall is him referencing the argument, and my begging him to go there because of how that ended up going at the time.
Quote:
blew up when told you both look like dorks. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I was told there would be no hats.
Didn't expect to have anyone on ignore again... I don't even have GG there anymore...
Be well, people of CoH.
![](http://pages.suddenlink.net/dmweb/sig1.jpg)
Quote:
To spill my 2 cents:
For reference, last I checked the industry average for game designers was something between $50k and $90k depending on experience and other factors, and senior designers (usually, that title means manager) between $80k-$120k.
|
Back in 2008 (I think) when Paragon Studios was hiring I remember asking some dev what the salary was. He was not 100% certain and I can’t remember myself with 100% accuracy, but think he stated along:
40-60k/y entry level
Bout 80k/y seasoned designer.
No clue about management roles but those are just a handful.
The 60k I remember clearly because I remember thinking it would have been a downgrade for me even if I got the topmost of that range. The bottom line may have been 10k lower but I think it was about 40k, not 30k.
Quote:
Remember that out of all those Paragon employees, for every senior producer/designer/programmer making maybe around a hundred grand, there was a QA person making far less: probably closer to $40k-$50k. |
Do keep in mind that the game industry is infamous for underpaying people for the same skills any other industry would pay an arm and a leg for, taking advantage of developers extreme desire to make games for a living.
Threads like these do more harm than good, Stop posting them.
Quote:
I can't speak as much to the hours or even the salary, but I've had a couple of friends in Q&A jobs for game companies, and from what I was told, their benefits were pretty much crap, too. I'd be surprised if the usual rule of thumb to double their base salary to get their total cost to the employer was that good of a measure in their case.
I am not sure how Paragon handled it, but game Q&A tends to be a very harsh job. The average I have seen is about $12 an hour, with non-warranted 40 hour weeks. For Paragon Studios, I'm sure hours were more standard but I doubt salary was much higher.
|
Again, we don't know what it was like at Paragon Studios, I'm just speaking in general.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Sometimes I think it's important to correct things because it will help the person making the incorrect statement. I usually make special efforts to be polite when offering corrections in this case, though on the rare occasion I am attacked in response despite that politeness, I may not always be polite any further.
You seem to feel that being confrontational at all is the hallmark of a jackass. That's your prerogative, but it's not a view I will ever share.