Have we considered a lawsuit?
Not only is this unreasonable - have you considered what raising the spectre of a lawsuit will do to people who might be interested in acquiring CoH?
have you considered what raising the spectre of a lawsuit will do to people who might be interested in acquiring CoH?
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The closest one I can think of is Second Life, which explicitly grants full IP to its users for everything they create. (Shutting Second Life down would create a Zombie Lawyer Apocalypse, I'm sure.) |
I am wondering if a court order could be obtained preventing the shutdown of the City of Heroes servers on the ground that they contain intellectual property owned by the players, and NCSoft does not have the right to destroy that property.
This argument would not work with any other MMO; I don't know of any MMO that allows creation of anything like the detailed Architect missions. The closest one I can think of is Second Life, which explicitly grants full IP to its users for everything they create. (Shutting Second Life down would create a Zombie Lawyer Apocalypse, I'm sure.) |
I'm also not really sure how you could say that your IP is being 'destroyed'. If the first part that transfers ownership to them is invalid, then they'd still be getting a license for "full authorization to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with such IP right(s)", which I'd presume would protect them if such a concept actually existed (I've never heard of such a thing- being able to 'destroy' it as opposed to revoke/invalidate/expire).
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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All I'm doing is brainstorming. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
This is why I always disliked the formulaic "brainstorm --> THINK --> plan" form taught in elementary school. It encourages people to put the most ludicrous ideas down with the excuse of "brainstorming".
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![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
So I'm hearing this was a bad idea. Oh, well, not a problem. I'll just keep thinking, and I hope everyone else does as well.
...
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This is why I always disliked the formulaic "brainstorm --> THINK --> plan" form taught in elementary school. It encourages people to put the most ludicrous ideas down with the excuse of "brainstorming". Think first. Ideas come naturally from that. It'd take NCSoft's lawyers about five seconds to win the case by simply saying "You signed it. Don't like it? Tough."
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There's a lot of moments in history, full of things that became of what we enjoy today, that wouldn't exist had they followed that line of "thinking".
In fact, I'd be willing to bet this GAME that we post on its forums, wouldn't be here, nor as well as supported and developed throughout the years, had it not been for brainstorming and the bouncing off of ideas amongst a group.
It's something that is done each and every day in many walks of life.
No harm, no foul.
I used to work as an editor at Lexis-Nexis. There are two things that determine your case: who the judge is and how much money you have. It is my considered opinion that a lawsuit of any kind is a non-starter.
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I am not seeing grounds for a lawsuit. The 'rights grab' seems to me to be mostly chest-puffing. City of Heroes, like lots of other software, is useful and in fact used to create brand new 'intellectual property'.
Every character and bio you made in the game is a new IP that belongs to you. The EULA is basically saying that NCsoft gets to use your characters itself. Your character could have been added to a City of Heroes advertisement, movie, novel, or comic without your consent. It also says that if they had, for instance, lost the Marvel lawsuit, NCsoft could have sued players who made Wolverines and Hulks.
Before you could sue, you'd have to show damages. Specifically, you'd have to show a court how this particular provision in the EULA cost you money. Simply saying that NCsoft holds a perpetual license to all my characters won't get you anywhere unless you can also prove that this costs you something.
If, for instance, NCsoft developed a hit movie based on a player's City of Heroes character, that player might at least be able to claim that she had been harmed by the provision. She would likely lose, based on the contract provision: when she made a character in the creator, she gave that right to NCsoft. You and I can't even get that far.
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Contrary to what others have said, I do believe we could obtain a temporary injunction against the shutdown. I'd rather not go into exactly why that is, because I also agree with some of the reasons why we shouldn't even start the process at this point. And in any case, an injunction won't save the game or help out Paragon Studios at all, and it would be very expensive and exhausting. Maybe in two months I'll reconsider.
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I am not a lawyer. All I'm doing is brainstorming. I also recognize that threatening a lawsuit might be overkill even if warranted -- and whether it is warranted or not is a big question.
That said, I see an interesting angle.
City of Heroes is a unique MMO. The game allows players to create character concepts with a graphic representation and an in-game text description. More importantly, CoH allows players to create their own content in the Architect system. The character names and costumes are listed in the Terms of Service as being licensed by NCSoft -- the players do not own those. All the items and badges that you ever found are just licensed to you to use. But the intellectual property in the character descriptions and in the mission architect arcs are irrevocably owned by the player.
Now, NCSoft lawyers have thought of that, and have this little block in the Terms of Service agreement:
related to any Account ID, any NCsoft Message Board ID, any
communication or information on any NCsoft Message Board provided by
You or anyone else, any information, feedback or communication related
to the Game, any Character ID or characteristics related to a
Character ID, any combination of the foregoing or parts thereof, or
any combination of the foregoing with any Service, Content, Software,
or parts thereof. To the extent You may claim any such IP right(s),
You hereby grant NCsoft a worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge,
royalty-free, sub-licensable, perpetual and irrevocable license and
full authorization to exercise all rights of any kind or nature
associated with such IP right(s), and all ancillary and subsidiary
rights thereto, in any languages and media now known or not currently
known. Your license to NCsoft includes, but is not limited to, all
necessary trademark licenses, all copyright licenses needed to
reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute and prepare
derivative works of any such IP right, and all patent licenses needed
to make, have made or otherwise transfer, use, offer to sell, sell,
export and import related to such IP right(s). In addition to the
provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify
and hold harmless NCsoft with respect to any claim by third-parties
that any such license to any such IP right(s) misappropriates,
violates or infringes any third-party IP right or other proprietary
right.
I am wondering if a court order could be obtained preventing the shutdown of the City of Heroes servers on the ground that they contain intellectual property owned by the players, and NCSoft does not have the right to destroy that property.
This argument would not work with any other MMO; I don't know of any MMO that allows creation of anything like the detailed Architect missions. The closest one I can think of is Second Life, which explicitly grants full IP to its users for everything they create. (Shutting Second Life down would create a Zombie Lawyer Apocalypse, I'm sure.)
I'm just bored at work and brainstorming, but I thought I'd bring this possibility up in case someone with a legal background hasn't though of it yet.
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