Upcomming changes to procs
By
Arkyaeon,
Posted on: 2012-08-23 10:58 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Cool.
I realized a week or so ago I hadn't included that in my version of your Hybrid Assault comparison spreadsheet (from where I added it locally before you added it to yours). It made me conscious of the need to account for it when reading this. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Boiling the AoE Factor equations down to their simplest form you get...|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Cool.
I realized a week or so ago I hadn't included that in my version of your Hybrid Assault comparison spreadsheet (from where I added it locally before you added it to yours). It made me conscious of the need to account for it when reading this. |
AoE Factor(Damage Rule) = 1 + Radius * (0.132 * Arc/360 + 0.018)
AoE Factor(PPM Rule) = 1 + Radius * (0.099 * Arc/360 + 0.0135)
With Radius in feet and Arc in degrees. For the PPM procs in cones Synapse confirmed that the Radius used is the base, unenhanced Range, so Range enhancement in cones doesn't effect the calculated proc chance.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Quote:
I should get around to updating, user-friendlifying, and sigging my i24 spreadsheet at some point. Before i24, preferably...|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Cool.
I realized a week or so ago I hadn't included that in my version of your Hybrid Assault comparison spreadsheet (from where I added it locally before you added it to yours). It made me conscious of the need to account for it when reading this. |
Edit: I'm not actually sure if Doublehit's PPM was increased in i24 as I had assumed it would be. It's not in the patch notes, so probably not.
Hmm, how will this effect damage procs in damage auras?
I currently have a spine/elec that has 3 in each... heh.
Quote:
Equipped as I am with numerous characters who have Cardiac Alpha and sprinkled ranged ATE (round 1) set bonuses, I am glad to hear about this. I think that would have been overboard, as the really critical metric I think should be considered for AoEs is max targets, with arc and radius acting as weaker modifiers.|
Originally Posted by Kosmos
For the PPM procs in cones Synapse confirmed that the Radius used is the base, unenhanced Range, so Range enhancement in cones doesn't effect the calculated proc chance.
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Thanks for that info.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
A lot of more significant things have failed to make it into public patch notes in the past, so it might be worth asking. I also would consider that surprising, as it basically serves to nerf DoubleHit, with no dev comment on the matter. So it might be worth raising just to make sure it's not an oversight.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Edit: I'm not actually sure if Doublehit's PPM was increased in i24 as I had assumed it would be. It's not in the patch notes, so probably not.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Here's a query - Lightning Storm. I use the Devastation hold proc in it (and get pretty good returns!), which activates off the bolt.
The power itself (Lightning Storm) has a long recharge (90s base), but the bolt fires off every 4s or so. Which recharge affects the PPM?
I believe that, once you have summoned the storm, the PPM will be based on the stats of the attack the storm entity uses. Here are the relevant stats from City of Data.
Cast time: 1.17 seconds
Recharge time: 4 seconds
Arc: 360°
Radius: 5'
Since most pets are now immune to recharge, I assume the recharge 4s recharge time is fixed for I24 PPM purposes.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
That depends on the PPM of the proc and the radius of the aura. With your two 8' radius auras you have an AoE Factor of 1.9, so each will check every 10s with a PPM * 10s / 60s / 1.9 = PPM * 8.77% chance. That's a 30.7% rate for the most common 3.5 PPM damage procs. 50% better than the current rate for the non-PPM versions of those procs.
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Originally Posted by Player99
Hmm, how will this effect damage procs in damage auras?
I currently have a spine/elec that has 3 in each... heh. |
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Quote:
That's what I thought. So it procs as if it were a 4s power, not a 90s recharge power (or like another psuedopet like a rain). Good to know.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I believe that, once you have summoned the storm, the PPM will be based on the stats of the attack the storm entity uses. Here are the relevant stats from City of Data.
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Someone said that the Performance Shifter proc was set to 1.5 PPM - isn't that a massive nerf? Wasn't it a 20% chance to go off in Stamina every 10 sec before?
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
20% every 10 seconds averages out to 1.2 ppm, so that's no nerf.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Someone said that the Performance Shifter proc was set to 1.5 PPM - isn't that a massive nerf? Wasn't it a 20% chance to go off in Stamina every 10 sec before?
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_________
@Inquisitor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Player99
Hmm, how will this effect damage procs in damage auras?
I currently have a spine/elec that has 3 in each... heh. |
Chance to activate = once per 10 seconds
Area factor = 1 + 0.75 (0.15 * 8) = 1.9
[assumes all are 8' PBAoEs, which I think they are]
Standard proc (3.5PPM):
(10 * 3.5) / (60 * 1.9) = ~30.7% proc rate
[versus the old 20% chance, or 15% if ToD]
Purple proc (4.5PPM):
(10 * 4.5) / 114 = ~39.5% proc rate
[versus the old 33% chance]
edit: And I see Kosmos actually answered that like 4 posts up.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Someone said that the Performance Shifter proc was set to 1.5 PPM - isn't that a massive nerf? Wasn't it a 20% chance to go off in Stamina every 10 sec before?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
20% every 10 seconds averages out to 1.2 ppm, so that's no nerf.
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That sounds so odd to the layman:
20% chance to go off every 10 seconds. This sounds like it could go off 6 times in a minute - sure, it's highly unlikely, but possible. New version locks it at 1.5 times a minute.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Not that I know of, it doesn't. It just sets the exact chance so that it'll average 1.5 per minute.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
That sounds so odd to the layman:
20% chance to go off every 10 seconds. This sounds like it could go off 6 times in a minute - sure, it's highly unlikely, but possible. New version locks it at 1.5 times a minute. |
Quote:
That's not what the PPM system does at all.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
20% chance to go off every 10 seconds. This sounds like it could go off 6 times in a minute - sure, it's highly unlikely, but possible. New version locks it at 1.5 times a minute.
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All PPM does is make the chance of activation such that the average number of times per minute something will activate will be the PPM if you could activate the power end-to-end without pause. (Which, with toggles and passives, you can.)
The PPM system sets the activation chance to CycleTime * PPM / 60 (for cycle times expressed in seconds). So for a PPM of 1.5 and an activation cycle time of 10 seconds that's 25%.
That's it. It doesn't force it to go off once every 60/1.5 seconds. It just calculates the activation chance so that it averages that.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
PPM is an average, not an upper limit. At 1.5 PPM, it still could go off 6 times in a minute (and in fact it's more likely to do so than the 20% version). It could go off zero times.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
That sounds so odd to the layman:
20% chance to go off every 10 seconds. This sounds like it could go off 6 times in a minute - sure, it's highly unlikely, but possible. New version locks it at 1.5 times a minute. |
I'm sure it might sound odd at first. Many things do. The 10-second timer for procs in auto/toggle powers sounds odd the first time you hear about it.
Quote:
There, I highlighted the important part.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
That sounds so odd to the layman:
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
If said layman has been paying attention to game mechanics at all and has not gotten used to things that sound odd, he's either insane, stupid, or a genius. Regardless, the way PPM works is probably not going to sound odd to him. If he hasn't been paying attention to game mechanics in the past, he probably won't now, so again, it won't sound odd to him.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
There, I highlighted the important part.
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It's the people who aren't really laymen, and have gotten used to other game mechanics so they no longer sound odd any more, who will A) notice that a change has taken place, B) look up details on game mechanics, and C) decide that PPM, being relatively new, seems odd to them. They'll get used to it, just like they get used to 45% defense being the soft cap for normal content and then a higher number applying to incarnate content, or resistance resisting resistance debuffs, or a bunch of "attacks" actually being pseudo-pet summons, or any of the other wackiness that shows up when you really look at CoH mechanics.
TL;DR - it's not the first odd sounding thing in CoH mechanics, and it won't be the last.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
Quote:
That wasn't lost on me. But this part...|
Originally Posted by JayboH
There, I highlighted the important part.
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Quote:
| New version locks it at 1.5 times a minute. |
).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Ah, yeah - it just seemed the responses were to me, instead of to the theoretical layman I suggested.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
That wasn't lost on me. But this part...
...suggested a pretty significant misunderstanding of what PPM does. The point in replying was only to try and clear that up, and not in any way to flog you for not being an expert in the minutiae. (Well, it wasn't my point for sure, but seebs and Hopeling aren't usually wicked like that. ). |
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
That softens the downgrade of PPM proc chances in AoEs somewhat.