Can't really speak to Dual Blades - I have a couple Tankers with the set but no Brutes. I can't see any real problem with DB/Elec other than the lack of a +Def power in DB, but that's true of any primary other than TW or Staff. I usually build for +Defense bonuses with Electric Armor, which is why I mention it.
As for Fire/Dark, it's got thematic synergy but not much game synergy which is likely why you don't see it as much - Dechs Kaison remarked of his Dark/Fire tanker that he wished he'd taken something other than fire because fire melee didn't really offer him any synergy and the same holds true here. It's not a bad combo certainly, but often people either look for +Def powers or endurance management powers when pairing with Dark Armor and Fiery Melee doesn't have either.
So as for Fire/Dark, it's not a bad combo, it's just that other combos may be more attractive for one reason or another, hence you see fewer Fire/Darks.
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On the DB/Elec side, I personally deleted mine because he was too dependant on Sweep Combo for survival at zero defense plus I hated the redraw issue. As to how it compares to Claws/Elec, well, prolly there isn't much difference between spamming a certain combo and spamming Follow Up so I guess not much change on gameplay.-
Also deleted a Fire/DA, cannot explain why, but I felt he lacked something, probably Fire Melee doesn't compliment such a great toolbox set as DA by just adding dmg to the table, despite being great dmg and all that, felt DA deserved something more, re-rolled him as DM/Fire and never looked back.-
*thinks about mentioning brawl/ or jumpkick/ or (whatever the origin inherent power is)/ but... decides that's not really relevant to the discussion... even though they ARE rarely seen combos...*
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There is a huge difference between DB and Claws. Claws has much more mitigation in the form of knockdown and a ranged attack to catch runners. Focus and Shockwave (with the Summer Event set) are both good mitigation. Spin is a beast as well. They play differently because Claws needs to constantly bounce around to use Shockwave well. DB sort of stands and delivers.
/Elec is a beast of a set and it will only be getting better in i24. My current i24 theorycraft build has capped resistance for S/L and for Energy (obviously) and ~75% resist for F/C. This is a build with unlimited endurance, perma-Hasten, a self heal combined with a regen boost, and a damage aura. It also has around 30 S/L defense, but I think I can play with the build and get that to 32 so I can cap with one small purple.
I don't think /Elec will need help from its primary once you hit end game, though leveling at can feel squishy if you are used to sets that can soft cap early.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
You do not see a lot of DM/ElA running around and the question that comes to mind having played one is, "Why not?"
Its not common and its very good.
Under construction
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I think it's a hard theme to imagine, and DM has no AoE to speak of so you are slow killing groups until you get into APPs.
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Originally Posted by Erratic
You do not see a lot of DM/ElA running around and the question that comes to mind having played one is, "Why not?"
Its not common and its very good. |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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A saturated Lightning Field is in fact working away on everything around you once you have Soul Drain (which admittedly you do not get until level 26). Given you get Lightning Reflexes as 20 and can have Hasten working with it and slotted fully for Recharge by the time you get SOs, your attacks should cycle pretty quickly. |
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I think it's a hard theme to imagine, and DM has no AoE to speak of so you are slow killing groups until you get into APPs.
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If you hit 6 targets in the time it would otherwise take to hit 3 the extra three blows can be considered the equivalent of having made an AE attack with one of the initial 3 blows which actually hit 4 targets (witht the benefit that you can of course hit the same thing multiple times).
I find when I am standing in the middle of a dozen enemy that Shadow Maul invariaboly hits multiple targets with not effort whatsoever in getting it to do so.
Lastly, yeah, once you get to Epic pool choices you can grab AoEs.
Under construction
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Now on the other hand...Dark Melee/Fire Armor is an interesting pairing. You get TWO endurance management powers, TWO self-heals (both quick-recharging), and TWO damage-boosting powers (each lasting longer than Build Up). Also your attacks debuff enemy to-hit, which can help out any set-bonus-based defense you buy. +Recharge helps your attack chain but also helps you cycle your heals, adding to your mitigation.|
Originally Posted by Justaris
It's not a bad combo certainly, but often people either look for +Def powers or endurance management powers when pairing with Dark Armor and Fiery Melee doesn't have either.
So as for Fire/Dark, it's not a bad combo, it's just that other combos may be more attractive for one reason or another, hence you see fewer Fire/Darks. |
Dark Melee has notoriously poor AoE (to make up for its hard-hitting single target chain), but Burn and saturated-Fury Blazing Aura help offset that quite a bit.
It's not as tough as some combos, but good set bonuses will help it a lot, and it's pretty interesting. I don't have the pairing on a Brute, but I have it on a Tanker, and I keep coming back to it.
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I don't understand what you are suggesting here.|
Originally Posted by Erratic
If you hit 6 targets in the time it would otherwise take to hit 3 the extra three blows can be considered the equivalent of having made an AE attack with one of the initial 3 blows which actually hit 4 targets (witht the benefit that you can of course hit the same thing multiple times).
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| I find when I am standing in the middle of a dozen enemy that Shadow Maul invariaboly hits multiple targets with not effort whatsoever in getting it to do so. |
While it's good that you feel you can leverage Shadow Maul, I don't think that is really relevant to why you don't see Dark/Elec.
If someone wants great single target damage there are better options elsewhere. If you are going with /Elec the endurance management tools of Dark are useless. /Elec gives you a self heal and regen buff which makes Siphon Life less necessary. The synergy just isn't there.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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Dark/Fire is good because /Fire covers the holes in Dark, and Dark's Soul Drain compliments Burn well.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Now on the other hand...Dark Melee/Fire Armor is an interesting pairing. You get TWO endurance management powers, TWO self-heals (both quick-recharging), and TWO damage-boosting powers (each lasting longer than Build Up). Also your attacks debuff enemy to-hit, which can help out any set-bonus-based defense you buy. +Recharge helps your attack chain but also helps you cycle your heals, adding to your mitigation.
Dark Melee has notoriously poor AoE (to make up for its hard-hitting single target chain), but Burn and saturated-Fury Blazing Aura help offset that quite a bit. It's not as tough as some combos, but good set bonuses will help it a lot, and it's pretty interesting. I don't have the pairing on a Brute, but I have it on a Tanker, and I keep coming back to it. |
But really if you are looking for gobs of damage your answer is <any primary>/Fire.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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What I am suggesting is that /Elec brings with it a recharge bonus that highly suggest taken Hasten, slotting it up, and having most of your powers benefit from reduced recharge times.|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I don't understand what you are suggesting here.
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| Shadow Maul is a poor AoE. It doesn't even compare well to Slice and similar cones since it requires constant positioning to get extra enemies in the cone once mobs settle around you. Even counting Shadow Maul as superior to Slice and similar early cones, that still leaves Dark with no PBAoE option. It certainly isn't a good single target attack - its DPA is half of Smite and Midnight Grasp and it roots you for a long time. |
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While it's good that you feel you can leverage Shadow Maul, I don't think that is really relevant to why you don't see Dark/Elec. If someone wants great single target damage there are better options elsewhere. If you are going with /Elec the endurance management tools of Dark are useless. /Elec gives you a self heal and regen buff which makes Siphon Life less necessary. The synergy just isn't there. |
Under construction
Both concept will work well , problem is that they are late bloomers , so they faceplant a lot at higher difficulty ,
So it is not that they are bad combination , till you get the resist 45% and selfheal .
It really feels like living on the edge , kill or be killed .
Resist is that earlier levels your hp will dip a lot so choose either to rest or keep going and have less hp bar buffer , or lose the fury bonus in damage.
So there combo is not flawed it is more like how much can you enjoy it .
Dual Blades problems is that it requires all the powers minus taunt .
Some would cut something out l but I found weaken in the endgame to be a blessing .
Especially knowing that I am going to take way too much damage , so gives more bucks for your resist ..
Fire Dark , has least problems of the two set , sorry both sets will do fine in the endgame.
As long you know what you want to do in the endgame .
As for me in the end , I got bored with them when I hit the stage of he almost there for survivalbility . ( loved the elec armour look was the reason that kept me going)
But sadly was just not it for me .
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I disagree here. I have a couple of db toons, and neither one of them has all powers. In fact, I would strongly recommend *not* taking all the powers. There are really only two combos that I would say are worth having on a brute; attack vitals and sweep. Weaken and empower, and more specifically empower, are not giving to give much bang for your buck on a brute.|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Dual Blades problems is that it requires all the powers minus taunt . Some would cut something out l but I found weaken in the endgame to be a blessing . Especially knowing that I am going to take way too much damage , so gives more bucks for your resist .. |
Sweep is nice to have for any secondary that benefits from being saturated with foes. Inv, wp, elec, fire, and dark all come to mind. Inv and wp for defense and regen reasons. The other three for the fact that your damage aura will mulch them up while you do your thing with db.
Not sure if DoT from attack vitals is boosted by fury, but DoT is your friend on a toon that makes his wages doing damage.
In fact, my db/inv ended up being one of my looser builds ever due to how many powers I was able to skip from the primary. The only reason that I would say taking all of db is good is if you like the animations. Since I mentioned that, I will say that the set still looks stunning. Particularly mid-air. My db/inv is an angel and Typhoon's edge is probably my favorite animation ever when done in the air.
I say roll the db/elec. I rarely ever see db toons these days. The synergy is not huge between the two, but the fun would be.
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I'm thinking of making a new brute, and want to do a combo's I've rarely if ever seen on a brute. Either a Fire/Dark or DB/Elec.
Is there a reason I don't see these two combo's often? Do they not mix well, or are they simply better on a different AT? I'm also interested in how well a db/elec would compare to a claws/elec, since I already have a claws/elec at 50
Any advice would be appreciated