Aura Controller
Pretty much, a controller that follows Tank/Melee in after they got initial aggro. Then stands around, chucking what needed debuff on main threat, while all Toggles do most work.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
Ice/Rad/Ice does it a bit better IMO. Mine has the lockdown proc in Choking Cloud, Contagious Confusion proc in Arctic Air, and Grav Anchor proc in Frostbite.
I focus on AoE control and let the rest of the team worry about cranking out the damage.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
You plan on surviving in the middle of a mob with this?
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have you ever played a fire/ controller? that's where they belong, right smack in the middle of the mosh. I'd not use a /poison for my choice of what the OP is trying but any fire controller I play wades into the middle from about lvl 12 on.
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My personal pref (mainly because it's my most recent alt, though I've got quite a few Fire/ in the stable) is Fire/Dark. The radius on Darkest Night and Tar Pit is much bigger than in /Rad, and everything seems to mesh perfectly, esp once you get Fade and Soul Absorption in the mix. Not really an "Aura" controller as it's largely dropped psuedopets and an anchor, but the effect is similar, you neuter and melt everything around you just by standing there, single target attacks are totally optional.
Arg
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I was mainly refering to the abcense of actual survivability outside the debuffs, defense, resistance ect. I haven't looked at this in mids but I don't have to in order to see that lack of survivabikity. Yes I play my squishies in melee, but the have a solid measure of defense and resistance to support the agressive playstyle.
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Did you miss the fact that this squishy is a controller? Step 1 - control the spawn, Step 2 - Melt the spawn. Defense and resistance are not the only way to survive a spawn.
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Pretty much, a controller that follows Tank/Melee in after they got initial aggro. Then stands around, chucking what needed debuff on main threat, while all Toggles do most work. |
Doomguide
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Obviously controlling and debuffing the spawn goes along way, I just don't believe it's enough to skip building some actual survival specs into a build. Especially a set like poison that's completly lacking in self buffs or heals.
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OK, I disagree with you entirely, but that's ok, I'll agree to disagree. Controllers have been ripping up spawns since long before IO's. Building for additional defense is nice but is not needed by controllers ... especially controllers that are following an alpha soaker.
Obviously controlling and debuffing the spawn goes along way, I just don't believe it's enough to skip building some actual survival specs into a build. Especially a set like poison that's completly lacking in self buffs or heals.
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Hell, going back to I-2/I-3 my original Mind/Kin used to live in Melee and ran at a pretty high difficulty (back before you could set the # heroes equiv), before containment and waaaaay before IO's existed. Control is Pro-Active defense. Used correctly it makes actual defense/resistance not all that much of a factor.
To be clear, I'm not attacking you or your opinion, but if you haven't played a lot of high level controller builds, is it possible that you're coming from a Tank/Scrapper/Brute/Stalker type background? If so, you might be seeing things through that experience and be unaware of the capabilities of a well built controller in the hands of as skilled controller player.
:: tosses two shiny coins in the hat ::
Arg
Umm. Right. I'm guessing you're not really a controller player? I mean, I don't want to make any assumptions and, sure, you're totally entitled to your own opinion. However, it's worth noting that Controllers were doing solo street sweeping of hazards zones and doing PL/Farming runs long before IO's even existed. I've got a Plant/Storm (Viridicane) that MOWS DOWN (sorry, obligatory bit of Plant humor ) +8/+3 spawns solo all the time, and she was built without any noticeable +def or +res. Doesn't even have any status protection as it's a Plant/Storm/Ice build. What Viri DOES have is GOBS of recharge, and no, she hasn't done any incarnate content, I've done all that on my Dark/Dark.
Hell, going back to I-2/I-3 my original Mind/Kin used to live in Melee and ran at a pretty high difficulty (back before you could set the # heroes equiv), before containment and waaaaay before IO's existed. Control is Pro-Active defense. Used correctly it makes actual defense/resistance not all that much of a factor. To be clear, I'm not attacking you or your opinion, but if you haven't played a lot of high level controller builds, is it possible that you're coming from a Tank/Scrapper/Brute/Stalker type background? If so, you might be seeing things through that experience and be unaware of the capabilities of a well built controller in the hands of as skilled controller player. :: tosses two shiny coins in the hat :: Arg |
You do make sense, I'm a Corruptorist at heart and not big into Controllers so I do see the point you're trying to make. I've also seen tons of poorly built trollers (and corrs for that matter... hmm) faceplant using those tactics.
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Oh sure... A badly built/played 'Troller will faceplant with breathtaking speed! Mobs just plain HATE anything that throws out controls, and for good reason. I've seen any number of Controllers played by folks that don't know what they are doing throw just an AOE immob at a spawn and then get pissed that they take an alpha in their teeth and faceplant immediately.
Hmm. I think the problem is maybe that you're looking at it from PRIMARILY a DEBUFF perspective, and looking just at the debuffs you're right, they aren't enough on that kind of build. But Controllers are CONTROL primary, Buff/Debuffs secondary. The control primary is where the defense comes from, Controllers (with a few exceptions) generally don't rely on Buff/Debuff as their primary mitigation. They Hold/Stun/Confuse the spawn FIRST, and THEN they buff/debuff the cr@p out of themselves&team/spawn and tear the mobs apart.
Arg
The classic example of an effective "aura" controller is a Fire/Rad/Psi, which was a combo I was playing long before IOs. Flashfire+Fire Cages from range, run in with Hot Feet+Choking Cloud running and the Imps trailing behind. Throw down EF on someone who will last a few seconds, Char the boss, use RI if the spawn will last past the duration of Flashfire's stun. Indomidible Will protects from mez, and the combo of Mind Over Body's Resistance and Rad's heal can usually handle any damage the controller takes. Throw out Psi Tornado for a little bit more AoE damage.
I actually have two of these on different servers. Neither one has built up defense -- I mainly focused on Recharge and Recovery for the build. The new KB-to-KD proc has made Bonfire into an effective control alternative. And a team of Fire/Rads will still wipe out a map faster than just about any other team.
If you don't know how to make a controller without a bunch of Defense, then make one that plays best from range. If you want a good example, take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide. Distraction+Invisibility+Control means you can get by without defense quite easily. It just takes more strategy.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
If you don't know how to make a controller without a bunch of Defense, then make one that plays best from range. If you want a good example, take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide. Distraction+Invisibility+Control means you can get by without defense quite easily. It just takes more strategy. |
List there "Old School"... it's great and all that you are so awesome and want to educate the rest of us, but a bit of defense never hurt anyone, and LEAST of all made it harder to be in melee. And thanks but no thanks on the offer to check out your guide, sounds like a one track mind guide that's way out dated.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
List there "Old School"... it's great and all that you are so awesome and want to educate the rest of us, but a bit of defense never hurt anyone, and LEAST of all made it harder to be in melee. And thanks but no thanks on the offer to check out your guide, sounds like a one track mind guide that's way out dated.
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List there "Old School"... it's great and all that you are so awesome and want to educate the rest of us, but a bit of defense never hurt anyone, and LEAST of all made it harder to be in melee. And thanks but no thanks on the offer to check out your guide, sounds like a one track mind guide that's way out dated.
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Local Man's guides are very well written fwiw; you might learn something if you were to take a look at the "way out dated"
Woah now. You're the one in the thread stuck on a single track here. Nobody has said don't get defense, we're just saying you don't need it on a controller like you seem to think you do. Control is active defense; controlled mobs don't shoot at you and if they're not shooting at you then they can't hit you.... even softcapped you get hit sometimes.
Local Man's guides are very well written fwiw; you might learn something if you were to take a look at the "way out dated" |
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Interesting concept.
I came up with this
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Timu: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(40), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(11)
Level 4: Time's Juncture -- ImpSwft-Dam%(A), EndRdx-I(5)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf%(A), C'phny-Dam%(7), Mlais-Dam%(7), ImpSwft-Dam%(9), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(9), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(13)
Level 8: Frostbite -- TotHntr-Dam%(A), GravAnch-Hold%(13), Posi-Dam%(15), ImpSwft-Dam%(15), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(21), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(40)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-ResKB(39), Zephyr-Travel(46)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- NrncSD-Dam%(A), G'Wdw-Dam%(17), Lock-%Hold(17), UbrkCons-Dam%(19), ImpSwft-Dam%(19)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(21), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Aegis-ResDam(31), Aegis-Psi/Status(31)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), HO:Cyto(23)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(25), HO:Cyto(25)
Level 26: Glacier -- SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SWotController-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(34), SWotController-EndRdx/Rchg(36), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(37), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SWotController-Rchg/Dmg%(37)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(34)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), LdyGrey-%Dam(36), ShldBrk-%Dam(36)
Level 38: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Mind Over Body -- GA-3defTpProc(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(42), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(42), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Aegis-ResDam(43)
Level 44: World of Confusion -- Erad-%Dam(A), Sciroc-Dam%(45), Armgdn-Dam%(45), Oblit-%Dam(45), C'phny-Dam%(46), Mlais-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(50), FrcFbk-Rechg%(50)
Level 49: Chrono Shift -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-End%(5), EndMod-I(40)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
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I've been playing this game since the begging too sport, I've been there just like ya'll. I'm not saying that Control isn't active defense, I'm saying it's folish to bank your survivability soley on your control instead of actually putting some in the build.
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My ice rad is nowhere near that sturdy and has no problem running into melee, and when I actually bother to finish them I doubt I would be any squishier then a scrapper.
Dirges
List there "Old School"... it's great and all that you are so awesome and want to educate the rest of us, but a bit of defense never hurt anyone, and LEAST of all made it harder to be in melee. And thanks but no thanks on the offer to check out your guide, sounds like a one track mind guide that's way out dated.
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As for my guide . . . well, it is the #1 most viewed powerset-specific guide on the Forums. While I certainly express my personal preferences, I worked hard to include many options and different points of view while combining lots of information from lots of sources. I don't think it is "way out dated," since it was updated for Issue 21.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I have an Ice/Time/Primal troller that worked really well in this capacity. Capped Slow, tempered with the +Fear in AA, which meant enemies were running away extreeeeemely slowly. Power Boost + Farsight, with some -to hit from Time's Juncture meant that on the rare occasion someone actually did try to attack me, they rarely hit me. Or each other, since most of them will be Confused.
Its a very low damage combo, but that just helps the survivability. You rarely draw aggro for all the debuffs you're throwing out. It was a combo I liked well enough to purp out and T4 incarnate.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
I've been playing this game since the begging too sport, I've been there just like ya'll. I'm not saying that Control isn't active defense, I'm saying it's folish to bank your survivability soley on your control instead of actually putting some in the build.
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To a Controller (and Dominator), the ability to completely lock down an entire spawn IS as good (if not better) than any defenses you can bring to your build. Yes, extra defense/resist buffs help you survive the things that you miss. But, in my experience, most spawns are locked down so tightly that the threat is neutralized.
Let's take my Dark/Dark controller for example. Yes, I have powers like Fade and Soul Absorption to mitigate/regenerate. But, the overwhelming amount of Control and To Hit debuffs usually removes any real threat from the mob I'm engaging. Not to mention, I have several pets I can unleash that also have their own variety of Control/Debuff.
Then there is my Elec/Kin controller. My build focuses heavily on Endurance Drain as part of my controls. And of course I have that awesome Static Field which I have witnessed put even the strongest target to sleep. The mobs are usually held, slept, or have empty endurance bars. Not much threatening me.
And my Ice/Cold, well the vast number of AoE controls and attacks I have ensure that large groups are neutered pretty fast. The combo of Frostbite, Sleet, Frost Breath, and Ice Storm tends to take advantage of Containment nicely and wipe out anything less than a boss within a few seconds.
My Mind/Storm (currently being rebuilt) has the only threat of running out of endurance. If it's not dead, the mob is usually Slept, Feared, Held, or Confused... or running from my storms.
The Ill/Emp and Ice/Emp are a little less "offensive" of my stable of controllers but they still run with ample controls (or pets) to handle threats.
Now, if you are talking about Incarnate content... then, yes, there are some mobs there which are either immune or highly resistant to control effects. But, then again, Incarnate Content (the trials) was never meant to be soloed.
My overall point is that a controlled mob isn't shooting at you or is unable to harm you in any significant way.
@ Dr Gemini
�If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
Just idea, figured I'd throw it out here see what ya'll think of it.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Hold(3), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), Lock-Rchg/Hold(15), Lock-Acc/Rchg(17), Lock-%Hold(17)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(48), Dct'dW-Heal(48)
Level 2: Envenom -- ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(21), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(36), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(36), ShldBrk-DefDeb(37), ShldBrk-%Dam(37)
Level 4: Weaken -- SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SipInsght-ToHitDeb(5), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(19), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(19), SipInsght-%ToHit(21)
Level 6: Smoke -- ToHitDeb-I(A)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(9), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(9), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(11), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(13), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(42)
Level 10: Neurotoxic Breath -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(11), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(40), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(40), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(40), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(42)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(13), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(37), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(39), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(39), Stpfy-KB%(39)
Level 14: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Elixir of Life -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Cinders -- Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Hold(29), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), Lock-Rchg/Hold(31), Lock-Acc/Rchg(31), Lock-%Hold(33)
Level 20: Antidote -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(50), RedFtn-Def(50), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 24: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(27), GSFC-Build%(29)
Level 26: Vengeance -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(34), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(34)
Level 35: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Venomous Gas -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(42), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(43), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(43), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(43), DarkWD-Slow%(46)
Level 41: Indomitable Will -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: World of Confusion -- Mlais-Dam%(A), Mlais-Acc/Rchg(45), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(45), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(45), Mlais-Conf/Rng(46), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Teleport Foe -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(7), EndMod-I(7)
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I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon