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Gesundheit.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I tend to eschew
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If it happens too much you should probably see a doctor.
It's definitely a difference in how scrappers and brutes feel. Brutes have lower base damage but higher max potential or, on the flip side, scrappers have less room to raise their potential but higher base damage. (I, personally, side with scrappers - "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" they say - though I do have a few brutes and enjoy them as well.)
The proposed new inherent would mess with the feel of both playstyles. We should be adding options, not taking away.
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Are you me?|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
:E
Keep your hands off my Scrappers! The thing I like about Scrappers is that they DON'T have a Fury bar. They don't worry about gathering aggro to maintain Fury, or setting up an assassin crit combo. They walk right up to the enemy and hit them in the face, no setup required, no other considerations to weigh. I don't dislike Fury - I've got plenty of Brutes - but I don't want it for my Scrappers either. I get why Scrappers and Brutes can appear redundant, but as an avid melee player, I would absolutely not be happy if that "redundancy" was removed. |
[funny image to reinforce punchline here]
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I think we're just subtly different, in ways that seem immaterial to people who haven't been us very often, but actually make all the difference to the experience of being me compared to being you.
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Originally Posted by Tidbit Jr.
Are you me?
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I personally go the other way on the brute/scrapper pairing. I hate the random critical chance on scrappers, since far too often it turns into a waste, particularly since I seem to have some arcane and well-documented ability to make RNGs roll in the worst possible way. I'll hit some jerk at half health with an attack that would take him down by itself, only to have the big "critical" float up. Yay! I did double damage and wasted half of it!
With brutes, at least the "additional" damage is consistently added in smaller amounts across every attack so that more of it is being used against targets that might benefit from it. In addition, the higher HP of Brutes makes a marked improvement to their survivability, particularly in the pre-SO levels where your defences are still weak.
In short, you can take my fury bar when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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If you want another PoV...
I much prefer Brutes to Scrappers primarily for Pokevoke and the Taunt Auras in the secondaries, not because of the numbers. In other words, my problem with Scrappers is not that they do X more (or less) damage or have X less (or more) defense or anything of the sort, it's that enemies run away from them, and I have to either run up and down the map chasing them down (hoping I don't drag even more aggro to me in the process) or patiently wait for them to come back (and hope they haven't regenned half their health by the time they do).
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This pretty much sums up my take on it. I do think I prefer scrappers, if the given secondary for my concept has a taunt aura in it, but otherwise I'll roll a brute.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
If you want another PoV...
I much prefer Brutes to Scrappers primarily for Pokevoke and the Taunt Auras in the secondaries, not because of the numbers. In other words, my problem with Scrappers is not that they do X more (or less) damage or have X less (or more) defense or anything of the sort, it's that enemies run away from them, and I have to either run up and down the map chasing them down (hoping I don't drag even more aggro to me in the process) or patiently wait for them to come back (and hope they haven't regenned half their health by the time they do). |
There critical in the game? I haven't notice. Anyways they seem very different Brutes are deadly and unstoppable like tanks, and Scrappers are wimps like Stalkers..... So combine Stalkers and Scrappers they seem the same other then Hide.
Besides it would be to much trouble combining them, They might break something that kill off all Scrappers and Brutes and no one wants that.
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So, a palette swap?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I think we're just subtly different, in ways that seem immaterial to people who haven't been us very often, but actually make all the difference to the experience of being me compared to being you.
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Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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...Are you trying to die? I don't care, but if you ever call any archetype "wimpy", that's just asking for trouble man. And I've actually played Scrappers and Stalkers (Esp. after Stalker changes) that are able to outlast their tanky counterparts simply because of raw damage output.
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Originally Posted by Power_NA
There critical in the game? I haven't notice. Anyways they seem very different Brutes are deadly and unstoppable like tanks, and Scrappers are wimps like Stalkers..... So combine Stalkers and Scrappers they seem the same other then Hide.
Besides it would be to much trouble combining them, They might break something that kill off all Scrappers and Brutes and no one wants that. |
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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I don't think they do enough damage, I can only kill 1 maybe 2 groups before needing to rest. Tank and Brutes I barely have to rest.
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Originally Posted by Kirsten
...Are you trying to die? I don't care, but if you ever call any archetype "wimpy", that's just asking for trouble man. And I've actually played Scrappers and Stalkers (Esp. after Stalker changes) that are able to outlast their tanky counterparts simply because of raw damage output.
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Oh Power....you so silly...|
Originally Posted by Power_NA
I don't think they do enough damage, I can only kill 1 maybe 2 groups before needing to rest. Tank and Brutes I barely have to rest.
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On topic, I like all the Melee ATs, personally. It adds subtle different flavours to every character.
Like my first character, Chief Centurion Z1. He's the big, stoic, archetypal Tank; he sits in the middle of mobs, barely taking a scratch, trying to reason with them and informing them of the poor life choices they've made, while illustrating this by smacking them about with Energy Melee.
He's completely different my Stalkers, both of whom are stealthy, burst damage type fighters who, conceptually, both prefer stealth. One because she's a commando, and the other is a thief. Stalkers let me do that perfectly.
I like Scrappers as being a solid, constant damage dealer. They don't rely on stealth, they don't need to build Fury. They just beat the snot out of stuff until it falls over, and then rinse and repeat. A lot. And beat lots of stuff. Very, very hard. Crits are just icing on the cake of reliability.
And then we have Ceasar, my Brute. 7'-8' Troll. Dresses and talks like a businessman. Walks the walk, talks the talk, mess with his stuff and he'll turn your 'orrible little face into jam on the pavement! Brooting suits him perfectly. He's big, he's tough, fighting him just gets him more psyched and more ready to pound you into a smear on the floor.
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So, I know it was a semi-joke topic, but just putting out my 2 inf on where I stand with all the melee ATs
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I didn't realize the endurance mechanics for premium players was different than VIPs. Wow that sucks.
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Originally Posted by Power_NA
I don't think they do enough damage, I can only kill 1 maybe 2 groups before needing to rest. Tank and Brutes I barely have to rest.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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Arcana, you're going to have to imagine a giant 'Like' button, and then you're going to have to imagine me designing a giant Gatling-cannon to fire innocent civilians at it until I run out of/can't catch any more ammo.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I didn't realize the endurance mechanics for premium players was different than VIPs. Wow that sucks.
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Winning: You has it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Obviously, doing this now would be beyond crazy.
Brutes do represent a cool mechanism that a few comic characters have - the harder you hit them the stronger they get. But, having a whole archetype to represent the Hulk and Sebastian Shaw from the Hellfire Club would be a bit odd if we were designing the game from the bottom up. If you were deisgning the game from scratch you could probably get away with just making this a defensive power set that Tanks, Scrappers or Stalkers could use.
But, even then you'd lose some concepts - eg you can make a character who gets hotter the harder you hit them (/Fire Brute) or sparks more (/Elec brute) and so on.
Game mechanic wise I like having the option for having or not having the Fury minigame.
So, there are these two archetypes for historical reasons, same as why there are Corrupters and Defenders. But it isn't making the game any worse or confusing, just giving us more choices.
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Well, there's your problem - I don't. And the last thing I want to happen to my Stalkers is for them to be saddled with that gimmick. I play Brutes sometimes, and sometimes I enjoy the Fury mechanic, but a lot of times I want to play at my own pace. Fury gets in the way of that.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
For full disclosure, I tend to go for brute for the fury mechanic
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
please note I'm not a numbers guy, I don't care about caps, etc.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Now, the first issue, of course, is the inherent. For some people this is important - as I said, I like the Fury mechanic. Others like crits. So let's combine the two into (another, I know) new Fury. It behaves like Fury now, but adds the crit chance. Versus Bosses and above, however, it gives a possibility for a double-crit. Yes, damage, crit, second crit of the same amount. This will *cost* a little fury (say, 10%) - and makes it easier, for (say) the next ten seconds, to climb into that last few percent of Fury generation that's currently a bit hard to get to.
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You, on the other hand, propose easily my LEAST favourite mechanic in any MMO and RPG - variable critical chance. I hate boosting the percentage of something to happen when I'm pretty sure it still won't happen when I want it. Sure, Stalkers work on sort of the same logic, but I don't chance percentages on them, either - I don't use AoEs from Hide and I try to use Assassin's Strike with three levels of focus. What you propose is a percent point fluctuating bar, which is just anathema to me.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Caps - aside from the fury cap (which may need adjusting) most of the numbers should either be at the lower or a midpoint between scrapper and brute numbers - just to add some additional differentiation between the melee ATs.
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I don't mean any of this to be offensive or dismissive. I just really don't see what you propose as being superior to what we have now. I furthermore don't see a point to removing choices from the players who want a different one than you. If you gravitate towards Brutes, then that's fine. The solution is to simply keep playing Brutes. But there are plenty of people who still play Scrappers and like how they're designed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Big fat NO to this suggestion. Both are fine as they are. Whilst they might both appear to fill the same role, they both fill that role in ways different enough to warrant being kept seperate.
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The way I see it, this would probably be like combining sorcerers and wizards in D&D (3.5...4e is icky!). The two have rather similar stats, identical spell lists, and mostly vary in weapon proficiency and how they cast their spells. I can imagine the annoyance some people might have at playing a sorcerer in a campaign for years, and hearing "Okay, Fredley, you are now a wizard."
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
But scrappers have better recharge. Sometimes better recharge is more fun 
But stalkers have a similar recharge to scrappers, so why don't we mix those two instead of the the brute?! Because scrappers aren't stealth characters! MADNESS!
Whelp, guess we'll have to forget about this thread entirely in the coming future, like the possible threads that this one might unknowingly have copied, and leave everything uncombined as they are.
Lets steal the blasters power to get stronger per each attack for 5-15seconds and make it a higher chance for crit after every attack. Momentum like a boss.
If you disagree - and I'm sure many people will - first, I ask you to read through the full suggestion, and then say just what advantage there is to keeping them separate.
The comment that inspired this was in the super strength adjustment S&I thread. Namely:
As it sits right now, aside from a few mechanical issues... I can't say why, other than random click, I pick a brute vs a stalker. It used to be you could only get one or the other depending on what side you're on - that hasn't been true since GR.
For full disclosure, I tend to go for brute for the fury mechanic - but that, to me, is really the only difference (please note I'm not a numbers guy, I don't care about caps, etc.) between the two ATs unless I'm looking for one of the non-proliferated sets (spines or EM.)
I really see three AT choices:
Tank: I want more HP, and I want my defenses/resists faster.
Stalker: Controlled crit, stealth. (And actually the lower numbers did matter to me - I actually enjoy that more "on the edge" bit.)
Then there's:
Brute/Scrapper - Don't want to deal with stealth, want attacks faster.
They're just "combined" to me - flip a coin at character creation.
Now, the first issue, of course, is the inherent. For some people this is important - as I said, I like the Fury mechanic. Others like crits. So let's combine the two into (another, I know) new Fury. It behaves like Fury now, but adds the crit chance. Versus Bosses and above, however, it gives a possibility for a double-crit. Yes, damage, crit, second crit of the same amount. This will *cost* a little fury (say, 10%) - and makes it easier, for (say) the next ten seconds, to climb into that last few percent of Fury generation that's currently a bit hard to get to. (And to help that, gives another some-percent global recharge for the same period.)
Should you happen to keep doubling, the period will extend - but for less time (say, 10 seconds, 5, 3, 2, etc.)
Caps - aside from the fury cap (which may need adjusting) most of the numbers should either be at the lower or a midpoint between scrapper and brute numbers - just to add some additional differentiation between the melee ATs.
IOs - yes, they get to use both scrapper and brute ATOs. So add others for the other ATs, or allow crossover where it makes sense (Corr/Def, for instance.)
Just throwing it out. Let the tearing apart proceed.
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