/unsigned
Balance on this would be an absolute nightmare. Especially with "Option 2"
I can understand not wanting to lose badges, etc. But it's just far simpler to reroll/alt.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Indeed, heh. However, I very much like your idea up until 'the options', heh. I could see myself willing to de-level all the way back to 1 if it let me change AT/powersets and keep my badges, and I know several other people who'd very much like that option as well.|
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
Just re-reading through these options makes me think that they are all too overpowered, and/or require far too much time to develop to be practical.
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Granted, some code or such would need to be added to lock down any incarnate powers until the character hits 50 again, but that's been done with a number of things already, so should be reasonably possible.
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
I was with you until that 'making it attractive part'. Balance isn't just horrible with option three, there. /Signed for the first half, but otherwise /unsigned.
Also, Radiation Accident= Being exposed to the Terra Volta reactor core, so it'd need a new concept behind it.
Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
I knew the Options part was OTT. Was hoping someone might come up with a better idea that's more balanced and less power-crazed.
Ho hum.
-H
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The first half of your post can stand alone as a fine system, it doesn't need anything else.
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Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
I knew the Options part was OTT. Was hoping someone might come up with a better idea that's more balanced and less power-crazed.
Ho hum. -H |
Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
The powerset respec won't work for all the various reasons that are always brought up when this thread appears. Options 1-3 won't happen because people could cherry pick key powers to make an OP'd monstrosity of a character. A generic "Radiation" themed power pool could work, but it would probably just be a normal power pool, with no requirements to unlock it.
Tbh most people i know when wanting to respec into a different class only would do it if they can keep their badges on the new toon, So if the devs could create away a player can temporaryly kill a toon and create one with all their badges - even at level 1 people would be very happy to do so.
The whole part before the Options is fine, however I'm going to go a step further there are many technical problems with powerset /AT respeccing. Now while there are a fair amount of Comic examples for this happening we're going to need to put some restrictions here for balance/mechanical/technical reasons.
First off a restriction of not changing the AT. I believe this will avoid causing more problems than necessary.
Second no granted respec, if you want to save enhancements use your unslotters and respecs before the change(but after completing the arc)
Third any enhancements that haven't been removed from pwoers get deleted. Again this is done because it should avoid more problems than necessary.
While these may seem a bit harsh keep in mind that AT/Powerset respecs is not something the devs are keen on doing. These restrictions also help serve as a strong disincentive for doing it.
Positron said something on one of the uStream chats (I think that's what it was) somewhere around the time that Freedom launched (shortly before or just after IIRC).
I don't recall the exact wording but the gist of his comment was that they'd looked at AT respecs and Powerset respecs and that it would require too much work to ever be likely to happen for AT respec and for the powerset respec it would be so much work that he had no idea what they'd have to charge for that option to make it worthwhile to even begin to start on such a project. Much of that is because of how the core of the game is built around the initial AT and powerset selections.
And that's to say nothing of what they've said over the years about this concept invalidating their design and replayability of the game through alting.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Let's see. The average character has 100+ enhancements slotted on a level 50.
Unless a player has bought all the extra enhancement trays he can only pull 10 enhancements off of a build per respec.
So that means it would cost the average player $110 bucks to strip a build of it's enhancements, $220 bucks if he's using 2 builds, and $330 bucks if he's using the third build he unlocks with Incarnate content.
On top of that he'd have to pay whatever ungodly fee the devs decided to charge for the actual power set/AT respec.
Even the players that spent $80 bucks on the extra enhancement trays couldn't spend enough money to make this idea profitable for the devs to develop if they were willing to do it, which they aren't.
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What if the issue wasn't approached from the angle of respeccing a character, and instead from creating a new one? |
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Positron said something on one of the uStream chats (I think that's what it was) somewhere around the time that Freedom launched (shortly before or just after IIRC).
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Now, standard code rant applies, but how about this -
1} You decide to "reinvent" a character. Something happened and, while they're still the same person in terms of history and accomplishments, they need to start over from scratch.
2} You're taken to the character creation screen, and go through the process of creating a new character - different archetype, powerset, even name or side if you want. The original character still exists in the database for now.
3} Once you complete the reinvention process, you're asked one last time {I suggest the "Type in your original character name" type confirmation you get from standard character deletion} if you're sure you want to go through with it. Once it's completed, the database retrieves the historical data from the old character - badges, contacts and souvenirs come to mind, temporary powers... probably not, for balance's sake - and inserts it into the database block for the new character. Once that happens, the original character is deleted entirely, and irrevocably, ceding its space in the player's character roster and the character database itself to the reinvented character.
As for why the devs might want to do this, well... it would make players who are attached to their accomplishments happy, and they might be able to charge for the service.
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I'm not saying what you proposed is in any way a bad idea, but wouldn't be easier if instead the devs made those unique badges that can't be earned again account wide rather than character specific. That way players won't feel they are losing those accomplishments.
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Originally Posted by Quinch
As for why the devs might want to do this, well... it would make players who are attached to their accomplishments happy, and they might be able to charge for the service.
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Not necessarily the unique badges alone - all the badges. They represent what your character has done, what they have explored and who they have defeated - it's part of their history.
Hmmm, this is kind of a prettied up version of a thread that got modsmacked last night. While it's a more reasonable suggestion than just esentially a 1-50 instabutton, I just don't see them allowing a player to bypass all of the grindtime required to get all of their badges, accolades and temp powers. It essentially shortens the characters road which could lead to a players shorter life in the game. (As opposed to just making a new character and leveling them to 50 and getting all the shineys)
It would be nice if there some naming tweaks where characters can be rerolled (without deletion of the prior toon) and still have their unique name without cute letter/number tricks. No it's not the same, but a way to make rerolls a little more palatable.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Judging by your golden-ish name I'd say you're a subscriber. Every month we get a free server transfer, so here's my advice:
transfer your toon to another server.
roll a new toon using your 50's name.
transfer your toon back and change it's name.
tadaa, you got to choose new AT/Powersets for your name and didn't lose any badges... and best of all, it cost you nothing.
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
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Well, the name is the unique identifier in the server database, so you can't have two records with the same name on the same server. That's why there aren't two characters on the same server with the same name. That's not a trivial obstacle to overcome.|
Originally Posted by Quinch
What if the issue wasn't approached from the angle of respeccing a character, and instead from creating a new one?
Now, standard code rant applies, but how about this - 1} You decide to "reinvent" a character. Something happened and, while they're still the same person in terms of history and accomplishments, they need to start over from scratch. 2} You're taken to the character creation screen, and go through the process of creating a new character - different archetype, powerset, even name or side if you want. The original character still exists in the database for now. 3} Once you complete the reinvention process, you're asked one last time {I suggest the "Type in your original character name" type confirmation you get from standard character deletion} if you're sure you want to go through with it. Once it's completed, the database retrieves the historical data from the old character - badges, contacts and souvenirs come to mind, temporary powers... probably not, for balance's sake - and inserts it into the database block for the new character. Once that happens, the original character is deleted entirely, and irrevocably, ceding its space in the player's character roster and the character database itself to the reinvented character. As for why the devs might want to do this, well... it would make players who are attached to their accomplishments happy, and they might be able to charge for the service. |
And from your example you lose any enhancements slotted in the character? Possibly quite a bit of time invested or at least inf invested in those enhancements. What if the person doesn't have Enhancement space to hold the Enhancements that the new character can't use?
There's a lot you aren't accounting for. The Devs have to account for all of those things. Trying to find a way to handle them isn't trivial.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
This is all pretty complicated for very little end result.
All the devs would have to do is make all badges account-wide. Instead of them being a representation of what your character has done, just let them stand as a representation of what you, the player, have done.
And it would save server space too. I distinctly recall a dev saying some time ago that the data it takes to record each badge across each character is no small number.
The Radiation Accident - Life begins at 50?
Hence this wall of text.)
It's been bugging me for a while now and this is my third attempt at this post. A lot of the problem with this idea is working out how the dev time would be justified, and whether it would just overbalance things terribly. It dates back to my tabletop superhero RPG days and a certain game with Defender as its lead hero.
Anyways, after playing it for several years, my character had amassed a vast amount of xp, which had been spent bit by bit. He was very well rounded, but boring, and I wanted a change, so the GM wrote a short session that invloved him having a radiation accident which allowed me to rebuild from scratch having all my xp in one job lot as well as the standard starting points.
So. Getting back to CoX, I was thinking about having the ability to respec my toon as something else. I could just re-roll my toon, but I'd lose just over 1100 badges - including all 8 anniversary badges, as well as all the pain of getting those lovely iSlots & accolades. My character also has a lot of history with the game. Pedestrians always have something interesting to say when I walk past. Deleting and re-rolling just wouldn't cut it for me, so I stick with the relatively underpowered Emp/Psi defender and plod on, grinding the badges because I'd rather do that than start from scratch with another.
Also, there's no way the Developers would want folks switching ATs/Power combos at 50. It would instantly devalue all the content below 50.
The Proposal
At 50, a toon can complete a special arc that allows them to have a "Radiation Accident". Once the arc is completed, the toon is teleported to a special hospital with a contact who will guide them through the following process.
1. Forced Respec (toon must have one saved, or is given one as part of the arc) to remove as many enhancements as they can/want. Toon can also use unslotters and store enhancements in base/WW/mail etc.
2. Speak to the contact again to initiate the "change". This will open up the character select screen again and allow the toon to rechoose (depending on balance issues) either Different powers within an AT, or a completely new AT.
3. The character is delevelled to 1
4. The character gets to keep: Badges, Accolades, Salvage, iSalvage, Inf, Recipes, Enhancements in-tray, Temp Powers, SG membership, Merits, Alignment, Inventory sizes. iPowers would also remain - though these are unavailable until the character reaches 50 again.
So the character has to start from scratch, levelling up from level 1. Oh - and they get a badge for the accident too! (Nothing to stop folks choosing the same AT/Power combo if all they want is the badge).
Freedom Impacts? Available only to VIPs, this could also be a chargeable arc - similar to the SSAs were for non-VIPs. This might get some money back for the dev time required to make it work.
Not really thought about HEATS or VEATS...
Thoughts...
Who would use this?
- "One badger" badge collectors who hate the thought of collecting another 1300+badges on a re-roll and don't like their "main" powerset choices. (I guess a v small segment of the customer base - of which I am one
- Server Slot hungry people who could just rad-accident their one slot to start a new one. (Bad 4 bzness)
- Badgers looking to complete their collection. (They might get angry)
It's not a big list is it? And not overly convincing. In my mind - certainly not enough incentive to actually devote time to it. The trick would be to add something to the Iraddiated hero/villain to tempt more people into doing it. Because if you can tempt people into it, you've got them running from 1-50 twice rather than once!
So. Some options that I've been thinking over... All are far from perfect and fly right over the "this may break the game" lines.
Making It Attractive
Option 1
"Key" powers from the original primary AT are placed into a secondary power pool that the player can choose from at those levels. So, an Energy blaster respecing to a MA scrapper would be able to choose (random sample) Power Blast instead of Storm Kick, Power Burst instead of Focus Chi, Power Push instead of CAK and Nova instead of Eagles Claw.
Option 2
Create an "Iraddiated" secondary power pool, which is only accessible to those who have had the rad accident. There are 4/5 powers in this pool that come from the original AT the player chose.
For example, a Defender respecs into a Scrapper. As he levels up, he has access to a "Defender" pool (his original AT) that he can choose from in addition to the existing secondary pools (no extra power slots - just more choice). The key would be the content of each AT pool.
1. It would contain powers that already exist - to avoid additional development (10 ATs = 40-50 new powers? - not likely!)
2. It would be difficult to do this for people that stayed in their AT (Emp/Psi defender respeccing to Storm/Energy for example.)
Option 3
Have a branching option similar to the VEATS where the player can choose from either their new powers or their original pre-respec powers.
This sounds way too overpowered and even my head hurts thinking up the possibilities for Scrapper-blasters.
Option 4
Just have an "Irradiated" secondary pool with fixed powers in it. Relavitely easy to balance. Hard to think up generic powers for all ATs. Lots of work to create new powers and no money from them.
Just re-reading through these options makes me think that they are all too overpowered, and/or require far too much time to develop to be practical. Maybe this isn't such a good idea. I just want a way to play my badger without feeling rubbish.
Thoughts?