Ice Manipulation: If they removed Shiver for Ice Sword Circle...
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2012-07-27 24:31 in Blasters
I've never played Ice Manipulation before, but this change would make me more apt to do so.
I have and use shiver on my Ice/Ice blaster. I would miss it. If they add damage to Frozen Aura, now that would be good.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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I have to agree with Strato here - shiver is one of the better powers in ice manipulation, I wouldn't want to lose it. On the other hand, frozen aura is a pretty sad power - not high enough mag to even sleep an LT and a tiny, PBAoE radius. I could handle having this power buffed easily, whether it was to add damage, make it a decent control by upping the sleep to mag 3 or by adding some -rech so you can stack it with chilling embrace/shiver.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I have and use shiver on my Ice/Ice blaster. I would miss it. If they add damage to Frozen Aura, now that would be good.
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Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Haven't gotten to Shiver level just yet...but getting there. Kinda on the fence about taking it. Frozen aura? Now THAT i plan to just forget it even exists. I'm playing a Water/Ice'r...AoE Sleep (meager in most every way conceivable as it is) + Lotsa AoE hurtage = Why in the unholy 9 levels of Hades did i even bother USING that friggin power?! So...yeah...CERTAINLY wouldn't mind having THAT replaced with ISC.
...Or the adding damage to FA option, too.
I'm kinda liking /ice on my blaster as it offers some pretty good mitigation (for a blaster anyway). Lotsa slow...some tasty -rech...and lovely, lovely ice patch (i'm so loving that power). My one and really only complaint with it is the lack of any extra damage...AoE or otherwise. Shoot...even DEVICES has more in that respect...even if some of it is a bit....hinky...but then that's just /devices.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I have and use shiver on my Ice/Ice blaster. I would miss it. If they add damage to Frozen Aura, now that would be good.
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Originally Posted by EricHough
I have to agree with Strato here - shiver is one of the better powers in ice manipulation, I wouldn't want to lose it. On the other hand, frozen aura is a pretty sad power - not high enough mag to even sleep an LT and a tiny, PBAoE radius. I could handle having this power buffed easily, whether it was to add damage, make it a decent control by upping the sleep to mag 3 or by adding some -rech so you can stack it with chilling embrace/shiver.
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Originally Posted by RaikenX
Haven't gotten to Shiver level just yet...but getting there. Kinda on the fence about taking it. Frozen aura? Now THAT i plan to just forget it even exists. I'm playing a Water/Ice'r...AoE Sleep (meager in most every way conceivable as it is) + Lotsa AoE hurtage = Why in the unholy 9 levels of Hades did i even bother USING that friggin power?! So...yeah...CERTAINLY wouldn't mind having THAT replaced with ISC.
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Hey, I'm not opposed to improving powers but don't see it as fair to practically strip the use of another power instead just because you don't like it. Putting damage into Frozen Aura just morphs it into a weaker damage tool at the cost of its control. As is, you can take any of the sleep powers and stack it with Frozen Aura to sleep bosses and practically any Blaster can pick up one of those powers for superior solo control.
Shiver? All it does is slow. Why not 'add damage' to that? It doesn't invalidate its purpose (slowing stuff) and they already have a power that does something similar: [Arctic Breath].
Not only that, but Hawk mentioned increasing the range of Frozen Aura and specifically said he *wouldn't* add damage to it.
I wouldn't want to swap Shiver for Ice Sword Circle if only because ISC is nothing like Shiver. Cottage rule and all...but you can modify Shiver to be like Arctic Breath: minor cold DoT, slow, -res/-def, knockdown over a period of time....it improve the set's control, offense and debuff at once.
I'd love ISC, but not if I had to give up Shiver.
It's a terrific power- the mitigation is one of the main reasons I played my fire/ice blaster all the way to 50 instead of dropping him in frustration like so many other blasters over the years.
Shiver + Damage would be like chocolate + peanut butter....MMMmmmmm!
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Adding damage to FA does not invalidate its use as a control tool. It limits its ability to stack because the other sleeps blaster can access have damage. Why aren't you complaining about that? If Flash Freeze and Sleep Grenade did not do damage, FA could pull double duty (Siren's Song would suffer, but I have trouble weeping for Sonic, its control is awesome without stacking sleeps).|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Hey, I'm not opposed to improving powers but don't see it as fair to practically strip the use of another power instead just because you don't like it. Putting damage into Frozen Aura just morphs it into a weaker damage tool at the cost of its control. As is, you can take any of the sleep powers and stack it with Frozen Aura to sleep bosses and practically any Blaster can pick up one of those powers for superior solo control.
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But I don't really want to stop those 5 people who are stacking sleeps, I'd prefer something else be done (just like I would have preferred something else for tankers). (while I am being snarky here, I do mean it, I'd prefer they not add damage to FA, I typed too fast in my previous post and said something that I don't really believe).
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Shiver? All it does is slow. Why not 'add damage' to that? It doesn't invalidate its purpose (slowing stuff) and they already have a power that does something similar: [Arctic Breath].
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I would. Shiver is a wonderful tool, particularly while leveling.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Would you have a problem with it?
Please note, I am not suggesting that they do, nor do I believe they will. I'm just asking if anyone would have a problem with it. |
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Thanks for the replies.
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It invalidates its controls because of the way sleeps work: damage breaks them. If damage didn't break sleeps, you'd be right. This isn't about those other sleeps because those already do damage and balanced not to stack. Frozen aura was originally designed to stack so making it break its own mitigation is invalidating its design.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Adding damage to FA does not invalidate its use as a control tool. It limits its ability to stack because the other sleeps blaster can access have damage. Why aren't you complaining about that? If Flash Freeze and Sleep Grenade did not do damage, FA could pull double duty (Siren's Song would suffer, but I have trouble weeping for Sonic, its control is awesome without stacking sleeps).
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| I wouldn't mind that. But shiver's -recharge is massive. Saying all it does is slow is like saying all Rain of Arrows does is damage. |
Mind you, I love my arch/dev but I like using all my powers...
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I use Shiver on my Sonic/Ice/Electric to keep the spawn out of melee range. I also use stacking sleeps to keep bosses in check until I am ready for them so adding damage to frozen Aura would be bad......
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I have and use shiver on my Ice/Ice blaster. I would miss it. If they add damage to Frozen Aura, now that would be good.
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
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Damaging sleeps are just sad. Having one is like being the victim of somebody's practical joke.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I have and use shiver on my Ice/Ice blaster. I would miss it. If they add damage to Frozen Aura, now that would be good.
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QR
Yes. As a player who prefers to strictly blast, I would miss it. However, I think there are other powers in the set that could go away in exchange for it.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Yes. Take/buff Frozen Aura instead.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Would you have a problem with it?
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Damaging sleeps are just sad. Having one is like being the victim of somebody's practical joke.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Frozen Aura is redundant and incompatible with Ice Patch. Switching Shiver for Ice Sword Circle would add yet another power for Frozen Aura to be redundant and incompatible with.
Direct port of the tanker Frozen Aura would increase endurance cost from 13 to 18.512, reduce the base sleep duration from 23.84 to 11.92 seconds, and add 88.84 cold damage (1.42 ranged damage scale) if they leave the blaster version flagged ranged. 78.97 (1.42 melee damage scale) if they switch it to melee.
You'll still be able to perma mez minions if for some reason you're not using Ice Patch or, you know, just blasting them to bits. And you'll be doing damage that compares very well to Ice Sword Circle (ISC pros: larger radius, minor slow debuff, ISC cons: 66.18 = 1.19 melee damage scale, slightly longer recharge, longer cast time, half lethal damage type).
Let me put it this way: If you think swapping Shiver for ISC would be an improvement, wouldn't then swapping ISC for a port of tanker Frozen Aura be even more of an improvement?
Frozen Aura should be like the sleep patch in electric control and do a pulsing low-mag sleep and a 1-shot damage spike at the power's activation. This would still allow sonic to sleep after it's initial cast and give non-sonics a better tier 9 as a whole without breaking the rule.
I'm not sure I'd like for shiver to go away.
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That's wasn't the purpose of the question. I am not thinking of the set holistically right now. I'm thinking specifically about these two powers. I didn't say it would be an improvement. I asked people if they would care if it changed.|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Let me put it this way: If you think swapping Shiver for ISC would be an improvement, wouldn't then swapping ISC for a port of tanker Frozen Aura be even more of an improvement?
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I know that Frozen Aura needs help. But this question isn't directed towards making Ice Manipulation better as a whole.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
All I know is that I wish my Ice Controller had the Blaster version of Shiver. And that's on a character for whom Shiver's debuff is even more redundant, in theory.
It'd be nice if it did damage for both Controllers and Blasters, though.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I would guess that's because it does more damage than the blaster version and they aren't that concerned about stacking the sleep effect.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Y
...I was under the impression will domination was good for Defenders/Corruptors. |
Would you have a problem with it?
Please note, I am not suggesting that they do, nor do I believe they will. I'm just asking if anyone would have a problem with it.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.