Willpower,Brute or scrap?

looking at making a WP toon and i'm unsure which AT, leaning towards scrap.it would be nice if WP was as good on brutes as on tanks, it is AMAZING on tanks, but i dont play tanks.... anyway, let me know and thanks in advance

<edit> Im thinking STJ, does it favor either of those two?

Willpower is amazing on any AT, and mechanically doesn't particularly favor either AT. Your primary set, epic pools, or just playstyle preferences should be the deciding factors.

I'd go WP brute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Brute gets the edge due to higher HP base and cap.

Other than the higher HP, Scrapper and Brute WP are identical. But, since so much of WP's schtick is high amounts of regen, it is better on a Brute.

Have you considered SJ/WP on a stalker? I've got a SJ/Regen brute and while it's quite sturdy the damage isn't what I was hoping for, shall we say. SJ is better on scrappers, if you ask me, but it's better than that on stalkers. You lose no aoe and you gain a really good single target attack, just the kind of thing the set sort of needs. You also lose the taunt aura but on the bright side you only have to make it up to 50+3 before you can make up for that with hybrid!

ive never really been in to stalkers to be honest, when i play my brutes, or even my scrappersi am very up front, and i wont play a melee unless it is nothing short of my requirements on survivability and damage, one of my requirements is being able to solo a Box on lambda, i consider this quite the test. with all that in to play i dont think the possible difference in damage is enough to make up for the large gap in survivability
<edit> according to mid's power set comparison scrapper STJ does substantially more damage

I won't say that the lower HP isn't an issue for stalkers who are into things like soloing lambda crates, but I would say that it's a surmountable problem. Stalkers actually have more HP than my ranged fort, for instance, but I solo crates on my fort all the time. A SJ stalker is going to be doing considerably more damage, but with less defense to back it up. Really it's all just relative tradeoffs. Damage and survivability exist as spectra and if you want to make something work you can virtually always do so with sufficient investment and skill.

For instance, if you can get a /wp stalker to within some chunk of Barrier of the incarnate softcap, that's probably at least thirty seconds of basically unfettered insane single target damage. That crate or containment tube is not going to be putting up much of a fight in that time frame. In some ways stalkers are the best willpower option for this because instead of lots of regen they get a powerful heal. When you're trying to burst down a single target regen isn't really what you're after.

Of course that was just one example but it's a place where I would say the stalker beats the scrapper or brute. Where do the scrapper or brute beat the stalker? It isn't with aoe, willpower doesn't get a damage aura and street justice doesn't lose any aoe in stalker form. The only real mechanical differences are the lack of a taunt aura and the exchange of regen for heal. Oh yeah, and stalkers don't get quick recovery, that's kind of lame, but they also have one less toggle to run.

I dunno, something to think about at least. Personally I rank damage higher as a late-game build priority than survivability by a moderate amount and if I were going to roll this combination I wouldn't hesitate to stalk it up.

Willpower as said is a bit better on brutes because of their higher HP, but WP scrappers are perfectly good as well. So it's at least as important what primary you are choosing; some primaries are significantly better on a scrapper or brute. An Elec/WP scrapper will do significantly more damage than a Elec/WP brute, for example.

I have a BA/WP Brute and a Spines/WP Scrapper both at 50. Willpower on the Brute seems "better", but that could be because of the mitigation that Battle Ax provides.

well just to add about stalkers I have a newly incarnate StJ/nin stalk I got to the melee icap and 53ranged 52 aoe and he solos crates in lam so it is doable and yes as far as stalkers go something about StJ is insane, to reply to the business at hand the hp diff between brutes and scraps I do notice the extra survivability on my brute (claws/wp) have a BS/WP scrapper as well all fun but the brute has a noticable edge in mitigation

I'd say Brute because I prefer the tanker/brute epic/patron powers. For example: While Shadowmeld (scrapper soul) and Darkest Night (brute soul) both do the same thing - make you practically unkillable for a bit - DN taunts and protects your team-mates.

not too much comparison has happened of STJ brute or scrap, any idea how much of a difference there will be? ive read in a few different places that with most sets brutes tend to out damage scraps( it should not though) is STJ going to be the same way? the "results are in" threads are too old to factor in STJ unfortunately.
Thanks in advance

alright so i worked up two build that are basically the same, one brute,one scrap, overall i think the scrapper pulls ahead, and here is why

(core paragon Vigor and all non clicky hero accolades for both)
(ALL powers are slotted the same)
Scrapper
-74.17 Hp/Sec
-2258 Hp

Brute
-80.94 Hp/Sec
-2529 Hp

The difference between regen is minimal but the difference in HP certainly is decent, so at this test the scrapper does lose.
here are some damage numbers

Heavy Blow:
-162
-95
Sweeping Cross
-236
-144
Rib Cracker:
-184
-108
Spinning Strike
-230
-134
Shin Break
-253
-152
Crushing Uppercut
-471
-266

the difference here is quite substantial in my opinion, the WP side brute pull slightly ahead but the STJ side scrappers pull far ahead

WARNING: i am by no means Greatly experienced with regen builds, i usually do not play them, so these builds may suck, let me know

SCRAPPER
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Heavy Blow
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(27) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(36) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(36) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge


Level 1: High Pain Tolerance
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(3) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(3) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(5) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Doctored Wounds - Heal


Level 2: Mind Over Body
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(37) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%


Level 4: Sweeping Cross
(A) Obliteration - Damage
(27) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(46) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(50) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage


Level 6: Combat Readiness
(A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
(43) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(45) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 8: Fast Healing
(A) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
(9) Regenerative Tissue - Endurance/Recharge
(13) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
(13) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration


Level 10: Indomitable Will
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance


Level 12: Rib Cracker
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(45) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(45) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(46) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge


Level 14: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(15) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 16: Rise to the Challenge
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(17) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(17) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
(19) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(19) Numina's Convalescence - Heal


Level 18: Spinning Strike
(A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
(21) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
(25) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
(25) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance


Level 20: Quick Recovery
(A) Endurance Modification IO


Level 22: Combat Jumping
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense


Level 24: Super Jump
(A) Empty


Level 26: Shin Breaker
(A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
(40) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
(40) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
(42) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(43) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)


Level 28: Heightened Senses
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(29) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed


Level 30: Spring Attack
(A) Obliteration - Damage
(31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(31) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(33) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(33) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage


Level 32: Crushing Uppercut
(A) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
(33) Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
(34) Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(34) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(34) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(36) Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus


Level 35: Boxing
(A) Empty


Level 38: Tough
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge


Level 41: Weave
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed


Level 44: Conserve Power
(A) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 47: Physical Perfection
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(48) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Doctored Wounds - Heal


Level 49: Resurgence
(A) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty


Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Slide
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Quick
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Rush
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Surge
(A) Empty


Level 1: Sprint
(A) Empty


Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty


Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
(A) Empty


Level 2: Health
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
(37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
(37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge


Level 2: Hurdle
(A) Empty


Level 2: Stamina
(A) Empty


Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon
------------



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BRUTE

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Heavy Blow
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge


Level 1: High Pain Tolerance
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(3) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(3) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal


Level 2: Mind Over Body
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(11) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(11) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(13) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(13) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%


Level 4: Fast Healing
(A) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
(5) Regenerative Tissue - Endurance/Recharge
(5) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
(7) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(7) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration


Level 6: Sweeping Cross
(A) Obliteration - Damage
(40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(42) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage


Level 8: Combat Readiness
(A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
(48) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(48) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 10: Indomitable Will
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(17) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed


Level 12: Rib Cracker
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(40) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(40) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(45) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge


Level 14: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(15) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 16: Combat Jumping
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed


Level 18: Super Jump
(A) Empty


Level 20: Rise to the Challenge
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
(21) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
(21) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal


Level 22: Spinning Strike
(A) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
(25) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
(25) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(27) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
(27) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance


Level 24: Quick Recovery
(A) Endurance Modification IO


Level 26: Shin Breaker
(A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
(45) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
(45) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
(46) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(46) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(46) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)


Level 28: Heightened Senses
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(29) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed


Level 30: Boxing
(A) Empty


Level 32: Crushing Uppercut
(A) Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage
(33) Brute's Fury - Damage/Recharge
(33) Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(33) Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(34) Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(34) Brute's Fury - Recharge/Fury Bonus


Level 35: Spring Attack
(A) Obliteration - Damage
(36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(36) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage


Level 38: Tough
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge


Level 41: Weave
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed


Level 44: Superior Conditioning
(A) Endurance Modification IO


Level 47: Physical Perfection
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(48) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(50) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(50) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(50) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge


Level 49: Resurgence
(A) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Dash
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Slide
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Quick
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Rush
(A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Surge
(A) Empty


Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint
(A) Empty


Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty


Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
(A) Empty


Level 2: Health
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
(31) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
(34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge


Level 2: Hurdle
(A) Empty


Level 2: Stamina
(A) Endurance Modification IO


Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon
------------



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Ok boils down to this , if same primary , same powerpool choices .

Max HP and potential to hit 200% versus Scrapper 125% with slightly lower HP and a terrific critical proc that happens quite often .

So end deal is simple , choose if want a bit more survivalbility and a stable damage output.
Versus a consistant damage output with huge potential for scaleable burst .

Make your pick , scrapper claw came way out on top versus my brute claw .
So you really have to check primaries , what was originally intended .
What was profiliated .

Scrappers do more damage than Brutes in general, but not by nearly so wide a margin as the quoted numbers might imply, since they will only be accurate with zero Fury. The damage difference is comparable in magnitude to the durability difference - that is to say, pretty small for most sets. (I'm also not sure how you got your Scrapper numbers - the Brute numbers look like ~100% +damage, but the Scrapper numbers are more like +115%.)

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGeko Brutes lose in high-damage buffing situations? What advantage do you mean?

Yep, Scrappers get more benefit from damage buffs even at the cap. Plus, Brutes need significantly more damage buff to reach their damage cap. A single Fulcrum Shift puts a Scrapper at or near their cap, but a Brute far below theirs.

Now, resist buffs, on the other hand...