The problem is Enhanced Water Jet can only happen every eight seconds. I have not done all the math on this yet but I would think it would be worth it to stretch out the front part of the chain so that it is right at about eight seconds going into Water Jet. Perhaps something like
Hydro Blast -> Dehydrate -> Hydro Blast -> Water Burst -> Water Jet x2
Or if your recharge is high enough:
Hydro Blast -> Dehydrate -> Hydro Blast -> Dehydrate -> Water Jet x2
This may have already been mathed out on the beta forums. Hopefully someone who has more experience at this will chime in.
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
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Neither of those chains works for Water Jet x2 - Water Burst and Dehydrate will both use the stack that you build with the first part of the chain. I also don't think you'll be able to get Dehydrate's recharge down enough to fit around Hydro Blast, but that's theoretically possible.
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Originally Posted by Jumpman
The problem is Enhanced Water Jet can only happen every eight seconds. I have not done all the math on this yet but I would think it would be worth it to stretch out the front part of the chain so that it is right at about eight seconds going into Water Jet. Perhaps something like
Hydro Blast -> Dehydrate -> Hydro Blast -> Water Burst -> Water Jet x2 Or if your recharge is high enough: Hydro Blast -> Dehydrate -> Hydro Blast -> Dehydrate -> Water Jet x2 This may have already been mathed out on the beta forums. Hopefully someone who has more experience at this will chime in. |
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Ah crud, forgot they would eat the charge. Hrmm this one IS tricky!
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
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Due to the Damage/Recharge scaling of Aqua Bolt and Hydro Blast, Hydro Blast actually has better DPA than Aqua Bolt. (0.84scale/sec for Aqua Bolt vs 0.886scale/sec for Hydro Blast.) So the optimum damage chain for Water Blast will likely cycle Hydro Blast over Aqua Bolt.|
Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
Anyone know the top ST chain for water blast yet?
Something like Aqua Bolt > Dehydrate > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Water Jet? |
That said, the difference isn't that large, and I simply prefer the animation of Aqua Bolt over Hydro Blast.
Another factor that serves to complicate making a static chain for Water Blast is that any misses derail your chain, as you don't gain the necessary stacks of Tidal Power. You need to adapt your chain on the fly to accommodate this.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Aqua Bolt can slot - RES achilles heel though ... wouldn't that count if you are cycling it 2x in the chain?
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Due to the Damage/Recharge scaling of Aqua Bolt and Hydro Blast, Hydro Blast actually has better DPA than Aqua Bolt. (0.84scale/sec for Aqua Bolt vs 0.886scale/sec for Hydro Blast.) So the optimum damage chain for Water Blast will likely cycle Hydro Blast over Aqua Bolt..
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When trying to calculate these eight seconds out, should I be using Arcana time or cast time?
EDIT:
Well, messing around a little bit I came up with this chain. It does require you to take both Aqua Bolt and Hydro Blast, though. Using Arcana time it comes out to 8.58 seconds between enhanced Water Jets. It includes five attacks, so you can miss two and still have your stacks of Tidal Power up. This probably isn't the top DPS chain, but it's a start anyway.
Dehydrate: 2.112
Hydro Blast: 1.848
Water Jet: 1.584
Aqua Bolt :1.188
Hydro Blast: 1.848
8.58 seconds
Water Jet X2
This is what I'm looking at:
[Water Jet] > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > [Dehydrate] > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Dehydrate
[ - ] Are the Tidal Consumers, and cycles at 10.956 around Water Jet and keeps three stacks of Tidal in order to trigger the two consumptions.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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It would yeah. Aqua Bolt's DPA is really only very slightly lower than Hydro Blast. Including the -Res proc would boost the damage of all of your attacks and would easily overcome that.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Aqua Bolt can slot - RES achilles heel though ... wouldn't that count if you are cycling it 2x in the chain?
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Dehydrate: 2.112 Hydro Blast: 1.848 Water Jet: 1.584 Aqua Bolt :1.188 Hydro Blast: 1.848 |
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Doesn't Dehydrate have stupid bad DPA given its long animation? Or is the mids time wrong?|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
This is what I'm looking at:
[Water Jet] > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > [Dehydrate] > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Dehydrate [ - ] Are the Tidal Consumers, and cycles at 10.956 around Water Jet and keeps three stacks of Tidal in order to trigger the two consumptions. |
EDIT: I think MIDS is wrong, it seems to cast way faster in game.
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Aqua Bolt is 0.84scale 1.188 Arcanatime|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Doesn't Dehydrate have stupid bad DPA given its long animation? Or is the mids time wrong?
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Hydro Blast is 1.48scale 1.848 Arcanatime
Dehydrate is 1.744scale 2.112 Arcanatime
That gives them DPAs of:
0.707scale
0.801scale
0.826scale
Dehydrate actually has better DPA than Aqua Bolt or Hydro Blast.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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This. Dehydrate is fundamentally Siphon Life with a shorter recharge timer and appropriately compensated damage. Is definitely worth using, and often at that.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Dehydrate is 1.744scale 2.112 Arcanatime
Dehydrate actually has better DPA than Aqua Bolt or Hydro Blast. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Good to know. I was actually thinking of starting a thread about Dehydrate because I was wondering if it was worth taking as a pure attack on my Water/Dark, who obviously doesn't need the healing aspect. Since I love the animation I'm glad I won't gimp myself by taking it.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Dehydrate is fundamentally Siphon Life with a shorter recharge timer and appropriately compensated damage. Is definitely worth using, and often at that.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Depending on your slotting and whether you're chasing set bonuses, it is actually possible to maximize most of your needs in Dehydrate and still sneak in a little +Heal. Just something to keep in mind. You might not need it, but it doesn't hurt, either.
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Good to know. I was actually thinking of starting a thread about Dehydrate because I was wondering if it was worth taking as a pure attack on my Water/Dark, who obviously doesn't need the healing aspect. Since I love the animation I'm glad I won't gimp myself by taking it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Along those lines:|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Depending on your slotting and whether you're chasing set bonuses, it is actually possible to maximize most of your needs in Dehydrate and still sneak in a little +Heal. Just something to keep in mind. You might not need it, but it doesn't hurt, either.
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My prospective build has Dehydrate slotted with the 3 Thunderstrike triples, a level 50 Damage IO and 2 level 50 Heal IOs for 42.4% Accuracy, Endurance and Recharge, 95.9% Damage and 83.32% Healing enhancement.
I didn't slot it for a 6.25% Recharge bonus, because 7 out of Water Blast's other powers can be slotted for that bonus, and don't have additional aspects that need enhanced.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I wonder if perhaps we have crossed over into the world of priority systems rather than straight rotations with some of these new mechanics such as tidal power.
So it might be something like (just winging this, don't hold me to it):
If 3 Tidal Power & Water Jet is up & past 8 seconds
Water Jet
else if 0 Tidal Power & past 6.7 seconds
Tidal Forces
else if Dehydrate is up
Dehydrate
else ...
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
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The problem with "on the fly" is in the fact you still have to build stacks to use stacks, and one of your prime attacks (dehydrate) consumes stacks too. The chain I posted up a bit solves most issues.
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Originally Posted by Jumpman
I wonder if perhaps we have crossed over into the world of priority systems rather than straight rotations with some of these new mechanics such as tidal power.
So it might be something like (just winging this, don't hold me to it): If 3 Tidal Power & Water Jet is up & past 8 seconds Water Jet else if 0 Tidal Power & past 6.7 seconds Tidal Forces else if Dehydrate is up Dehydrate else ... |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
But the problems comes with misses, right? Also, your chain spends every other finisher on Dehydrate, which in practical terms is probably not a bad thing, but technically does nothing for DPS. The chain posted by Zandock would seem to address those issues since it cycles in 8.5 and only uses WJ for finishers. It does waste tidal power, building 5 before finishing, but that makes it miss-tolerant. Probably overly so, assuming good acc/to-hit. I like that your chain allows skipping a power. I'm finding I have to sacrifice secondary powers I'd rather keep in order to keep all the WB powers I want/need.
Anyways it's an interesting problem 
It will be a while before my WB/Time is 50 so for now I'm just winging it since I don't have the recharge to pull off any of these chains and I miss a lot more than a spec'd out 50 would.
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
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Dehydrate builds stacks if it doesn't consume them, too. I'm not sure if you took that into account when saying that it's bad to use it "on the fly"; if it's up and you're still building stacks it doesn't hit a reset button.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
The problem with "on the fly" is in the fact you still have to build stacks to use stacks, and one of your prime attacks (dehydrate) consumes stacks too. The chain I posted up a bit solves most issues.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I'm fairly certain an Aqua Bolt with -Res Proc could lead to a better damage chain. You can stack Tidal much more consistently with it. For someone who uses Water Burst and Geyser for KD too, I like Bolt.
Also, the animation 
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Okay, so I pulled out the ol' Spread Sheet and ran some numbers. |
Originally Posted by Jumpman
But the problems comes with misses, right? Also, your chain spends every other finisher on Dehydrate, which in practical terms is probably not a bad thing, but technically does nothing for DPS. The chain posted by Zandock would seem to address those issues since it cycles in 8.5 and only uses WJ for finishers. It does waste tidal power, building 5 before finishing, but that makes it miss-tolerant. Probably overly so, assuming good acc/to-hit. I like that your chain allows skipping a power. I'm finding I have to sacrifice secondary powers I'd rather keep in order to keep all the WB powers I want/need.
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For Survivability/Heals (146 DPS):
[Water Jet] > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > [Dehydrate] > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Dehydrate
Shortest Chain for +Water Jet (145 DPS):
[Water Jet] > Water Jet > Dehydrate > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Hydro Blast
Zandock's Proposed Chain (143 DPS):
[Water Jet] > Water Jet > Dehydrate > Hydro Blast > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Hydro Blast
This is entirely under the speculation that Water Jet wont try and consume Tidal during its "cool down" timer. I don't know if that's the case or not, I assumed it was.
As for Missing, this should be relatively low in the consideration of Accuracy Bonuses and general slotting. It doesn't take much to get enough +Acc to hit +4's. Still, yes, a miss will statistically occur, but Aqua Blast is a simple cadidate to grab an extra Tidal stack if needed, otherwise (in the case of the "shorter" chain) running straight through per normal is more than possible.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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Thanks so much for crunching the numbers! Looks like Aqua Bolt over Hydro Blast.
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For Survivability/Heals (146 DPS): [Water Jet] > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > [Dehydrate] > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Dehydrate Shortest Chain for +Water Jet (145 DPS): [Water Jet] > Water Jet > Dehydrate > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Hydro Blast Zandock's Proposed Chain (143 DPS): [Water Jet] > Water Jet > Dehydrate > Hydro Blast > Water Jet > Aqua Bolt > Hydro Blast |
That seems like a low number?
[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
Not sure if John included -RES proc in Aqua Bolt and potentially other damage procs in various attacks including Aqua Bolt.
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Incidentally, I ran those numbers off of Blaster data, not including Defiance or Tidal Forces, but it did include something like 15% Global Bonuses from all the sets I dropped (quickly) into the build to get the recharge into a range that'd give me the optimal cutbacks (180%).|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Not sure if John included -RES proc in Aqua Bolt and potentially other damage procs in various attacks including Aqua Bolt.
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Aqua Bolt: Apocalypse 5'er, Javelin Proc
Hydro Blast: Reviewed slotted identical to Aqua Bolt. Not possible in-game, but it leveraged that Bolt was better, so I just generic'd it to maximum benefits and one Javelin Proc
Water Jet: Blaster ATO 5'er and Javelin Proc
Dehydrate: Overwhelming Force 4'of, and two Touch of the Nictus
I did not include the Achilles' -Res proc because I feel the turn-around impact of its change to PPM (based on testing on Beta) is potentially sub-optimal to another damage proc now. This is still undetermined for the most part, so don't quote me on that expectation. It's just my initial findings, and they were definitely under the mark.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Anyone know the top ST chain for water blast yet?
Something like Aqua Bolt > Dehydrate > Aqua Bolt > Water Jet > Water Jet?
[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child