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I seem to be talking to a brick wall.|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
First of all, no I didn't say anything about putting the Radios in Ouro; I said that putting 1-50 Radios in Atlas Park would mean that players would be able to play the entire game outside of Task Forces in three zones. Level to 50 in AP doing nothing but Radios, hop over to Ouro to flashback all the content you skipped whilst levelling, then off to DA for Incarnate content. The fact we're getting new zones and zone revamps tends to make me think this is a situation the devs would rather not be in.
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Players would not 'be able', they already ARE able to do this.
Do you see the game crashing down around us? Everyone ONLY farming in three zones? No? That's because the people who are content to grind and farm are a relatively small number, while everyone else is out playing the game THEIR way. Savvy?
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| Granted, that same situation is possible now, but there are key differences, that make it less attractive to the masses. The AE has had changes made to the XP rewards that make this practise less than efficient, and therefore less attractive to people who want to get to 50 as quickly as possible. |
You seem to underestimate the natural capacity of gamers to find the most efficient way in anything. Fire farms, next question.
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| The sewer trials exemplar you down to a cap of (I think) about level 12 or so. I would doubt very much people would enjoy using the same couple of powers every time all the way to 50. I'm sure there are those that do and these are the kinds of people who will seek to power level whatever the circumstances, precisely in the way you speak. And I agree; there's nothing you can do about those people because they will find exploits no matter what. |
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The point is that bringing 1-50 Radios to Atlas Park will be the AE pre XP nerfs all over again. Much more availability to EVERYONE simply due to increased visibility which in turn is more likely to make it the norm rather than the exception. Alright, maybe I'm over reacting. Maybe this "nightmare scenario" as you call it (the terminology of which is also a little overblown ftwiw) won't happen. The fact of the matter is (albeit largely anecdotal) that these situations have happened in the past and the devs have taken steps to curb the attractiveness of doing so in various ways. I think, therefore, that the implementation of this idea is unlikely without suitably implemented penalties; say a reward reduction for every level you are over the limit for a particular zone until it gets to 0 if you're more than 10 levels over. This way, all the people can still "play the game the way they want", but there are no ways of exploiting it. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You and me both.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I seem to be talking to a brick wall.
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Players would not 'be able', they already ARE able to do this. Do you see the game crashing down around us? Everyone ONLY farming in three zones? No? That's because the people who are content to grind and farm are a relatively small number, while everyone else is out playing the game THEIR way. Savvy? |
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| You seem to underestimate the natural capacity of gamers to find the most efficient way in anything. Fire farms, next question. |
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| You also seem to underestimate the tenacity of hardcore grinders and farmers. |
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Originally Posted by SteelRat
And I agree; there's nothing you can do about those people because they will find exploits no matter what.
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| This thread is about letting Radio missions carry on to 50 or be Ouro-able, so that people can get the badges. I didn't personally agree to adding Radio/Paper to Atlas and Mercy (and if I did, I was tired and at University, I redact it) So, ultimately, all we/I are/am arguing about is whether to let them be in Ouro or scale to 50, albeit with level appropriate enemies in the latter case. In which case, yes, I think that should be in game as a QoL feature, because all other badges (with the exception of one very specific Redside contact) are in Ouro. And are needed for an Accolade redside, which is otherwise an unnecessary hassle to get. |
Seriously Techbot, for your continued unpleasant, condescending demeanour I would have hoped you'd have at least had some sort of understanding and comprehension of the points that I've made even if you didn't agree with them. If we are getting to the stage where we're both having to reiterate things, then it's probably best we agree to disagree and leave it there.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
I'm probably only coming across that way because, so far, the counter argument to the suggestion have been relying on an end result that, as has been said, would already have happened if it was going to.
The OP;
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So, yes, Ouro got mentioned later. I am very much in favour of this suggestion, especially Redside, because there are badges related to an accolade there that, otherwise, is a hassle to get if you happen to have out-levelled the zones.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
I want to suggest allowing Radio missions to start at the zone level...like they do now...all the way up to level 50.
Example...you can start getting radio missions in Talos at level 20 (I believe)...but allow us to continue getting radio missions there all the way to level 50. Think about it...you wouldn't be forced to run level 50 Radio missions in PI only. |
If anything, this suggestion is a benefit for those that DO go out and play the 'regular' content. Which, if I'm correct, is one of your main points, yes?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I give up. How many more times? It's only NOT happened because of the penalties. When the AE was introduced, it was stuffed to the gills of people wanting farm invites and the like. As soon as the XP reductions were introduced it was a ghost town - so this sudden influx of players on its introduction whilst was partly due to players playing with the new shiney, it's more than coincidence that its continued use at the same level came to an abrupt end once the XP changes had been made.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm probably only coming across that way because, so far, the counter argument to the suggestion have been relying on an end result that, as has been said, would already have happened if it was going to.
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So, yes, Ouro got mentioned later. I am very much in favour of this suggestion, especially Redside, because there are badges related to an accolade there that, otherwise, is a hassle to get if you happen to have out-levelled the zones. If anything, this suggestion is a benefit for those that DO go out and play the 'regular' content. Which, if I'm correct, is one of your main points, yes? |
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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That argument still doesn't hold up though. Council or Family farming in PI. RWZ farming. None of those have the penalties AE does. Most people, however, prefer to play varied content solo or with friends, except in certain cases (I know me and some friends have run RWZ to get new characters up to 22 or close to, since I for one find pre-SOs mind-numbingly annoying/boring having done it so many times)|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
I give up. How many more times? It's only NOT happened because of the penalties. When the AE was introduced, it was stuffed to the gills of people wanting farm invites and the like. As soon as the XP reductions were introduced it was a ghost town - so this sudden influx of players on its introduction whilst was partly due to players playing with the new shiney, it's more than coincidence that its continued use at the same level came to an abrupt end once the XP changes had been made.
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| Am I right in saying that the only badges that are gained through Radio Missions are the exploration badges in Bank missions? Introducing these in Ouro might be a good idea simply because there is a pre-requisite to getting to Ouro in the first place. |
To add, nothing personal in this. If I'm come across as abrasive or overly whatever...well, not the intended point. I blame the terribad medium of the interwebs
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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There are badges for completeing the side missions "x" number of times as well as an accolade for getting all the side mission badges.|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Am I right in saying that the only badges that are gained through Radio Missions are the exploration badges in Bank missions? Introducing these in Ouro might be a good idea simply because there is a pre-requisite to getting to Ouro in the first place.
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Safeguard_Missions
And, daftly enough, the Villain-side badge sets BOTH have accolades with powers attached to them. Making it that much more annoying if you want to go for them. At least Force of Nature can be done with standard level 50 Mayhems in PI, because the side missions are random and so are a bit easier to get. Invader, however, requires you getting ALL the exploration badges. Which, right now, is an annoyance if you don't have friends in the right level range.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I only read about half the replies, so I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this...
I always thought that a perk for level 50s should be the ability to run scanner/paper missions in any zone (possibly excluding the zones without scanner/paper access).
I think one of the big problems, for me, is that Peregrine Island has just never really done it for me. Always has seemed an odd style for the level 50 city zone.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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That would be great at the very least...as the main reason I suggested this was because I hate having only one place to run radios at level 50.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I only read about half the replies, so I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this...
I always thought that a perk for level 50s should be the ability to run scanner/paper missions in any zone (possibly excluding the zones without scanner/paper access). I think one of the big problems, for me, is that Peregrine Island has just never really done it for me. Always has seemed an odd style for the level 50 city zone. |
In other words...while I want the whole cake...a slice would be just fine.
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That what poeple said about power customization, and water blast... Maybe a few other things that we now have |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Not gonna happen.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Incarnate content is restricted to VIP accounts only. The devs aren't going to add content to radio/newspaper missions that Free/Prem players can't run.
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Or go with my other thought make random villains groups spawn depending on your level. I am sure villains would not try to rob the same bank all the time.
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The devs never said that we would never get power customization.|
Originally Posted by Power_NA
That what poeple said about power customization, and water blast... Maybe a few other things that we now have
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The truth of the matter is that the devs said that they would like to add it to the game but they didn't have the time or resources to dedicate to creating it at that time. As it turned out it was years before the the company hired enough people to work on the dev team so they could work on giving us power customization.
The devs also never said we wouldn't get water blast.
The closest thing you can point to the devs saying something would never be added which was later added is Inherent Fitness where ONE dev said that he'd rather get rid of Stamina altogether than make it inherent.
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| They could make it so Prem/Free are able to do some Incarnate stuff |
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No I realise those methods have no penalty, but being that they're in zones a new player may not initially be aware of yet, and have an inherent risk associated with players below say level 10 venturing in to because of the levels that these zones are set to.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
That argument still doesn't hold up though. Council or Family farming in PI. RWZ farming. None of those have the penalties AE does.
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If you imagine a new player arriving in Atlas and getting invites from level 50 teams doing Radios, the speed at which they level is going to give them very little incentive to want to do anything else. My point is not so much about availability of these "fast track" routes, but the visibility of them.
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| Most people, however, prefer to play varied content solo or with friends, except in certain cases (I know me and some friends have run RWZ to get new characters up to 22 or close to, since I for one find pre-SOs mind-numbingly annoying/boring having done it so many times) |
I know that CoH missions almost by definition don't generally have that much variety (especially the older content) and some players might not really notice the difference between endless radios and a normal mission arc (other than arc missions tend to be a bit longer - especially later on)
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That was the reasoning, as I understood, for asking for the Bank missions in Ouro. That way you can 1) get the badges you may have outlevelled without having to beg around for a lowbie team and, 2) have to be the pre-requisite level to get into Ouro anyway. If there's a downside there, I can't see one To add, nothing personal in this. If I'm come across as abrasive or overly whatever...well, not the intended point. I blame the terribad medium of the interwebs
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@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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In that case, I think Ouro is a pretty safe place to put them, thanks to the level gate. And, y'know, the whole point of Ouro (at least mechanics wise) is to replay stuff you missed. Like Bank missions, for the badges.|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
No I realise those methods have no penalty, but being that they're in zones a new player may not initially be aware of yet, and have an inherent risk associated with players below say level 10 venturing in to because of the levels that these zones are set to.
If you imagine a new player arriving in Atlas and getting invites from level 50 teams doing Radios, the speed at which they level is going to give them very little incentive to want to do anything else. My point is not so much about availability of these "fast track" routes, but the visibility of them. |
I, for one, am less fussed about the generic radio missions themselves. Yes, being able to play in zones other than GV/PI would be nice, but then again there is still a lot of other stuff that fills that and, frankly, I tend to play with friends who RP anyway, so the missions tend to be whatever we damn well want them to be, at any level range
But having the bank missions, especially red side, in Ouro would be nice. And also not farmable from level 1.
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You know what, on this point I agree 100% with you (I know.. shock / horror!), and this in part is probably part of the reason my initial reaction was as ... strong.. as it was. Even now, teams that I find or join just seem to want to do Radios ad nauseum and I would be against any change that makes that practise more common place. I know that CoH missions almost by definition don't generally have that much variety (especially the older content) and some players might not really notice the difference between endless radios and a normal mission arc (other than arc missions tend to be a bit longer - especially later on) |
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None taken. I think teh intertubez make people has a sad cos tehre are no gurlz
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I *only* play on Teh Onion.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
Well...good!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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How is that any different than the lazy bums who hang out in AE all day paying millions and millions of inf to enter and let a farmer do all the work from 1-50? At least with bank missions they wouldn't have to pay another player to do all the work and they would actually have to do the work themselves.|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Unsigned.
No. Definitely not. This will encourage people to stay in the same zone grinding out Radio Missions from 1-50. It's bad enough as it is that Radios seems to be all people want to do on teams, but this will make matters worse. City of Heroes will be come City of Couch Potatoes. Not fun. Dull as dishwater. |
Then again, considering how really lazy some people are, I don't think bank missions would be farmed that much. Some idiots want to stand around doing nothing for maximum gain.
"Looking for free farm"
"Can somebody please farm me?"
"Please! I need a free farm I have to gain a few levels"
"Paying 300 mill per run from level 1-50"
Catch my drift?
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I think you missed the part where we already argued about that |
Originally Posted by monkeyslap
How is that any different than the lazy bums who hang out in AE all day paying millions and millions of inf to enter and let a farmer do all the work from 1-50? At least with bank missions they wouldn't have to pay another player to do all the work and they would actually have to do the work themselves.
Then again, considering how really lazy some people are, I don't think bank missions would be farmed that much. Some idiots want to stand around doing nothing for maximum gain. "Looking for free farm" "Can somebody please farm me?" "Please! I need a free farm I have to gain a few levels" "Paying 300 mill per run from level 1-50" Catch my drift? |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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OK after seeing all the thread I could see why moving scaling radio missions to each zone would have a negative impact.
What if each zone had a "flavor" contact that hands out repeatables at the appropriate levels for the zone? These particular contacts would be accessible to all from 1-50 but missions themselves cap and you have to exemplar down if you want to run them beyond the level range of the zone. These particular repeatable could tell a kind of meta story like the tips, only involving goings on of the various gangs and the trainer of the zone. Running x amount of them could grant a zone themed badge or zone themed temp, something consumable like a signature summon of the zone's trainer or something like that.
I agree with the idea of the OP for concept reasons I'd like a few of my heroes to return to zones they've left to keep an eye on things. My forum namesake was raised in King's Row, but now he's "too big" for it. I'd think he'd go back to look in on things. But as I said, reading the debate on both sides makes it obvious being able to run 1-50 radio missions in Atlas a probable bad idea.
@Sylver Bayne
Pinnacle Server
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Yup, which is why adding another method of doing this probably isn't the best of ideas.
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Originally Posted by monkeyslap
How is that any different than the lazy bums who hang out in AE all day paying millions and millions of inf to enter and let a farmer do all the work from 1-50? At least with bank missions they wouldn't have to pay another player to do all the work and they would actually have to do the work themselves.
Then again, considering how really lazy some people are, I don't think bank missions would be farmed that much. Some idiots want to stand around doing nothing for maximum gain. "Looking for free farm" "Can somebody please farm me?" "Please! I need a free farm I have to gain a few levels" "Paying 300 mill per run from level 1-50" Catch my drift? |
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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Well there were 4 pages of comments before I posted. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I think you missed the part where we already argued about that
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Heh.. so you power leveled the thread to get to the end quick, and once you got there had no idea what it was about |
Originally Posted by monkeyslap
Well there were 4 pages of comments before I posted.
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@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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Ha. Well played, sir. Well played.
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Originally Posted by SteelRat
Heh.. so you power leveled the thread to get to the end quick, and once you got there had no idea what it was about
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Funny |
Originally Posted by steelrat
heh.. So you power leveled the thread to get to the end quick, and once you got there had no idea what it was about
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By the simple game mechanic of requiring people to change zones to get level appropriate radio/newspaper missions new players cannot help but learn more about what's unique in each zone, where the landmarks are, and where to find specific NPC groups.