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Without doing calculations, I am guessing Ice blast is still going to be solid for single target DPS. Plus, it is the king of mitigation when it comes to blaster primaries, so maybe it should be on the low end for damage.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
ice/ drops down to bottom tier status as its strength was ST damage and lacking a snipe it does not keep up with the others
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Given that the baseline is never using a snipe in the middle of combat I would say it -is- an improvement. If you had your snipe, it was almost strictly an unaggroed alpha strike. Now? I can pop Aim or some yellows to fire it in the middle of a fight without wasting time being interrupted. |
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
By default Aim puts your snipe on a 90s recharge. That isn't really an improvement.
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Or if I'm an anything/devices, I have the capability to make it a 3rd blast and never having to worry about the limit.
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I assume that is for level 50 though?|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well with a Blaster you have Aim and Build Up and slotting buts each of them on a 45second recharge. Based on Arcana's calculations this means you can FastSnipe 70% of the time. Not a huge benefit against regular mobs if you save Aim/BU for AoEs but useful for sustained ST DPS.
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Giving blasters a discount at WW would have done more for ST damage at level 50. It is the mid levels that need the largest improvement and they aren't going to see that from a not very often usable snipe. Especially when they may need to pick their powers carefully and can't afford a luxury situational power.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Well played, madam. I laughed.
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Giving blasters a discount at WW would have done more for ST damage at level 50.
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No, that's at level 22. All it requires is that you have Aim and Build Up and that both are slotted with SOs. Aim needs 3 recharge SOs while Build Up needs 3 recharge and 3 ToHit.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I assume that is for level 50 though?
Giving blasters a discount at WW would have done more for ST damage at level 50. It is the mid levels that need the largest improvement and they aren't going to see that from a not very often usable snipe. Especially when they may need to pick their powers carefully and can't afford a luxury situational power. |
I'll admit putting that many slots in Build Up at a low level is not necessarily a good decision but even with Aim alone you can have FastSnipe for 10 seconds out of every 45 using just by 3-slotting it with SOs.
Now you can get Build Up doing FastSnipe with a low slot investment relatively early through the magic of Franken Slotting. If you slot it with the following enhancements at level 31 or higheryou get 22% to hit from it and the recharge will be about 50 seconds (that's enhancement level 31, you can slot them at level 28):
Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Recharge
Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Recharge
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
Alternatively you could just grab a Kismet IO at a very low level (min is level 10 although the level 30 ones tend to be cheaper) which means that Build Up needs less To Hit slotting (a single To Hit SO will do it)
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That is true. But energy manipulation's change in I24 is that Conserve Power is going to be replaced with an Energize variation. It will have less heal and more regen than Electric's Energize, but it will still have a heal according to Arbiter Hawk. Which means power boost will synergize with energize in energy manipulation if you take it.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
I always thought PB affects direct heals but not +regen. Is that not true?
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Defenders and Corruptors unless they do things like change some blaster values to make it easier for a blaster to hit +22% to hit buff.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Yeah, I more or less said the same thing over on the defender boards already. I mean I love defenders and corrs, but those ATs are a couple of the ATs that need the least, if any buffing right now.
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
Defenders and Corruptors unless they do things like change some blaster values to make it easier for a blaster to hit +22% to hit buff.
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Global - @Proton Sentinel
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I disagree with you there. Their damage is below controllers, which isn't appropriate.
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Defenders get some mean support in buffs or debuffs, and Corrs get scourge to effectively crit on their powers.|
Originally Posted by Garent
I disagree with you there. Their damage is below controllers, which isn't appropriate.
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So yeah they get less damage than controllers... oh wait, no they don't. It's just that Controllers do double damage on Containment. Defenders and Controllers have .55 ranged damage modifiers, Corrs have .75 ranged damage modifiers on top of their support set and Scourge.
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Ah, got it. Hopefully the heal will actually be substantial. I've love being able to get rid of aid self and just rely on energize for my healing, but if they make it heal for something meaningless like 5%, I'm afraid that won't help much even with PB.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That is true. But energy manipulation's change in I24 is that Conserve Power is going to be replaced with an Energize variation. It will have less heal and more regen than Electric's Energize, but it will still have a heal according to Arbiter Hawk. Which means power boost will synergize with energize in energy manipulation if you take it.
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So yeah they do less damage than controllers.|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Defenders get some mean support in buffs or debuffs, and Corrs get scourge to effectively crit on their powers.
So yeah they get less damage than controllers... oh wait, no they don't. It's just that Controllers do double damage on Containment. Defenders and Controllers have .55 ranged damage modifiers, Corrs have .75 ranged damage modifiers on top of their support set and Scourge. |
their based modifiers are higher, but they do less damage
and controllers get mean support in buffs or debuffs
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Controllers have a 0.55 ranged damage mod. This gets doubled to 1.1 with containment. They have the exact same strength on their support powers as corruptors do. Scourge would have to have a 100% to kick in at the half health mark in order to make the modifiers equal after inherents. Normally defenders and corruptors having an entire attack set while controllers having two attacks in their control set would make controllers be behind anyway, but it all goes out the window at high levels when controllers get access to powerful attacks in their ancillary pools.
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Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Corrs have .75 ranged damage modifiers on top of their support set and Scourge.
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You try playing most Controller sets, it's not quite fun, and until there's enough recharge, duration, and accuracy, you won't be able to lock down more than a few at a time for containment. Thing with most controllers is that they won't be slotting for damage anyway, so while they'll be able to crit and get 1.1 with Containment, Corrupters have an entire primary devoted to attacking and getting Scourge going.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Controllers have a 0.55 ranged damage mod. This gets doubled to 1.1 with containment. They have the exact same strength on their support powers as corruptors do. Scourge would have to have a 100% to kick in at the half health mark in order to make the modifiers equal after inherents. Normally defenders and corruptors having an entire attack set while controllers having two attacks in their control set would make controllers be behind anyway, but it all goes out the window at high levels when controllers get access to powerful attacks in their ancillary pools.
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Global - @Proton Sentinel
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I have played control sets. My list of 50s is in my signature for everyone to see for just this reason. There's a controller there, and there are controllers I've played without getting them to 50.|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
You try playing most Controller sets, it's not quite fun, and until there's enough recharge, duration, and accuracy, you won't be able to lock down more than a few at a time for containment.
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Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Thing with most controllers is that they won't be slotting for damage anyway, so while they'll be able to crit and get 1.1 with Containment, Corrupters have an entire primary devoted to attacking and getting Scourge going.
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I see one level 50 controller in your signature. Yes you can slow for damage as a controller, but most of them agree that leveling and kill speed picks up when they grab the pet, except for gravity control.
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Originally Posted by Garent
I have played control sets. My list of 50s is in my signature for everyone to see for just this reason. There's a controller there, and there are controllers I've played without getting them to 50.
If they choose not to slot for damage, that's their choice, just like how it's the corruptor's choice not to slot for damage if they so choose. Controller durations are high enough at high levels that it's not necessary to slot for mez in the single target controls. If you want to slot for mez duration anyway, there are frankenslotting options available to you so you don't have to sacrifice damage to get it. Dam/mez hamidon enhancements are very cheap, so it's a false dichotomy. |
Global - @Proton Sentinel
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50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
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That's what I said.
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Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
I see one level 50 controller in your signature.
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You aren't getting fast snipe 70% of the time with just SOs and you certainly aren't getting it without large global recharge.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
No, that's at level 22. All it requires is that you have Aim and Build Up and that both are slotted with SOs. Aim needs 3 recharge SOs while Build Up needs 3 recharge and 3 ToHit.
I'll admit putting that many slots in Build Up at a low level is not necessarily a good decision but even with Aim alone you can have FastSnipe for 10 seconds out of every 45 using just by 3-slotting it with SOs. Now you can get Build Up doing FastSnipe with a low slot investment relatively early through the magic of Franken Slotting. If you slot it with the following enhancements at level 31 or higheryou get 22% to hit from it and the recharge will be about 50 seconds (that's enhancement level 31, you can slot them at level 28): Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Recharge Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Recharge Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance Alternatively you could just grab a Kismet IO at a very low level (min is level 10 although the level 30 ones tend to be cheaper) which means that Build Up needs less To Hit slotting (a single To Hit SO will do it) |
12 second recharge on the snipe
1 second cast.
With SOs you can get that down to a 7 second cycle which gives you 2 per build up type power
With hasten that drops to 5.5 for the cycle.
Unless you can get it down to less than a 5 second cycle you aren't going to get more than 2 per build up power and you likely will lose DPS elsewhere from trying to make it work.
Not to mention going a little crazy making that work. Especially if you are on a high latency connection or one with packet loss.
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Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
I see one level 50 controller in your signature. Yes you can slow for damage as a controller, but most of them agree that leveling and kill speed picks up when they grab the pet, except for gravity control.
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I'd argue that illusion also does pretty decently even before 32... Spectral Wounds + Blind is pretty sweet and at 18 you get Phantom Army. Spectral Terror at 26 can be turned into a sporadic damage dealer via a proc or two as well.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Illusion is a bit of an anomaly in that it doesn't have as much hard control as other sets, but makes up by virtue of much more damage. Against a single target, ill/rad is great since all the dps is focused on one target, large mobs are good, but uncontrollable KB can be problematic for others without something to keep it from getting out of hand.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I'd argue that illusion also does pretty decently even before 32... Spectral Wounds + Blind is pretty sweet and at 18 you get Phantom Army. Spectral Terror at 26 can be turned into a sporadic damage dealer via a proc or two as well.
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Global - @Proton Sentinel
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Fire, Mind, and Plant are also solid damage dealers early.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I'd argue that illusion also does pretty decently even before 32... Spectral Wounds + Blind is pretty sweet and at 18 you get Phantom Army. Spectral Terror at 26 can be turned into a sporadic damage dealer via a proc or two as well.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Not sure where you feel this is true, but everyone is entitled to their belief.|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Yeah, I more or less said the same thing over on the defender boards already. I mean I love defenders and corrs, but those ATs are a couple of the ATs that need the least, if any buffing right now.
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My experience varies considerably from yours though. This is coming from a player that mostly plays Defenders, Controllers and Tankers. Of those three, Defenders need the MOST help. Sure, you have examples of Defenders like Rad/Sonic, Time/Fire, Dark/anything but you also have things like Emp/Electric, FF/Psi, Sonic/Rad etc...
I can honestly say that the Variance of performance of Defenders combinations is so much greater than any other AT, with Controllers, Corruptors and MMs right behind them that Support sets are WAY overdue for review. I can also say that the DEVs will not do this because THEY ARE UNABLE to fix the disparities at this point in time. They are afraid to turn over the apple-cart. But hey, good news for you Tankers out there, the Un-killable AT is getting YET ANOTHER look over. ::clap::clap::
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So ice blast is going to be a bottom barrel set after this.
Mitigation at 50 is a non issue, only damage matters at that point.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Ummmm... mitigation still matters a heck of a lot at 50. Even if you use IOs to softcap your Blaster layering on additional mitigation in the form of control and debuffs helps a lot. And not everyone has a softcapped blaster.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
So ice blast is going to be a bottom barrel set after this.
Mitigation at 50 is a non issue, only damage matters at that point. |
AR/dev moves into a top tier combo
/dev moves into a top tier secondary from the bottom
fire/ ST damage gets even better and stays tops
elec/ becomes better but stays at the bottom, it may be considered "viable" looked at alone but is not competitive. It remains for sappers only.
ice/ drops down to bottom tier status as its strength was ST damage and lacking a snipe it does not keep up with the others
DP we just don't know - it depends on animation times
MM - gets lowered as it gets no improvement, but it is probably still a top tier although /dev may be better for combos that use snipe
the other secondaries we don't really know - it depends on how big the healing and END effects are in each, but in theory the changes should be balanced (we know they won't be in practice)