Difference betwixt Axe/Broadsword/Mace ?
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2012-06-12 13:49 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
One uses an axe, one uses a broadsword... >.>
It's been so long since I've played either axe or broadsword (BS/SR scrapper, as in "Endurance? What's that?") I'd have to think about it. Or refer you over to paragonwiki.com.
Axe: Lot of knockdown/up.
Mace: Disorients mixed in with knockup/down in most powers.
Broadsword: No real KU/KD for most powers.
That's the most obvious I can think of.
Broadsword has very similar animations, but mechanically is actually much more like Katana. The first example that comes to mind is Parry, which neither Ax nor Mace has anything like.
Ax and Mace are quite similar. Very, very similar. Ax does lethal damage type, while Mace does only smashing damage, if I recall correctly.
Mace has stuns as secondary effects on some attacks. Ax has all KD or KU.
And the t8 I believe has a slightly larger degree of arc on War Mace.
That's about it.....
That said, the Ax has the super cool bearded ax choice.. Totally awesome.. I think it's called the Barbarian's Axe in the costume creator. It does have to be purchased, though. I'll admit, I gave Ax a pass till that option came out, because the rest really are pretty boring. I bought the Barbarians costume pack as a whole, and when I saw that Ax in there I had to get to work on my new Brute.
Besides appearance?
Broadsword has -Defense secondary effects, as well as Parry, which is incredibly useful.
Axe has Knockdown secondary effects, but it otherwise straight-forward.
Mace has Stun secondary effects, is also pretty straight-forward, but has Clobber which is pretty awesome.
I mean, that's about it. They share a lot of animations and they all have a wide cone, a narrow cone, and a PBAoE.
The reason for the similarity is simple, originally they where just going to be one set: Medieval Weaponry.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
One uses an axe, one uses a broadsword... >.>
It's been so long since I've played either axe or broadsword (BS/SR scrapper, as in "Endurance? What's that?") I'd have to think about it. Or refer you over to paragonwiki.com. Axe: Lot of knockdown/up. Mace: Disorients mixed in with knockup/down in most powers. Broadsword: No real KU/KD for most powers. That's the most obvious I can think of. |
Actually BSs t6 and t9 KU and KD just about identically to Axes..I know, it's a ntpick.
@the OP: Easiest is pull up Mid's and look at the differences in there, if you have access to it. If not, consider trying to get access to it. If it's just not an option, the wiki, like Bill said, or City of Data will spell out all the tiny differences.
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/
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Really? Never knew that. It certainly explains a lot, though.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
The reason for the similarity is simple, originally there where just going to be one set: Medieval Weaponry.
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Another difference: Tankers still don't get Broadsword.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Now that, I knew. But you're right, it is an important difference to note. |
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Another difference: Tankers still don't get Broadsword.
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Originally, the different options were all pretty limited in who got what/which. Mostly, that's gone now...
Tanks also still don't have access to Katana, either. Very weird, given that they have access to staff, and titan weapons, and MA, and other powers that provide a parry-like effect.
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Thus the "most." |
Originally Posted by Madadh
Actually BSs t6 and t9 KU and KD just about identically to Axes..I know, it's a ntpick.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Thus the "most."
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Touche, sir, you are correct. I felt the need to point out BSs KU and KD because I felt that your correct statement could be misunderstood as meaning, "Broadsword has no 'significant' KU/KD." If someone read it that way, it would be incorrect, since the 2 main powers in most BS ST attack chains have very reliable KU and KD.
So, I wanted to avoid confusion for other readers, not imply that you had given incorrect information. I apologize if you took it that way.
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Nah. I'm just poking at you for the heck of it. No harm, no foul.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
I apologize if you took it that way.
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Well then, in that case, touche again, sir... |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nah. I'm just poking at you for the heck of it. No harm, no foul.
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But, seriously, glad to hear. I agree 100% with that sentiment...
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Mechanical difference....|
Originally Posted by Easily_Noobed
What is the real difference between the sets?
I mean they have basically the same animations. The only difference I see is that axe suffers from a complete lack of interesting weapon models. Is there a mechanic difference that makes one shine over the others? Thanks much! |
Warmace: Clobber is much, MUCH, better than any other attack any of the sets get. Crowd Control is a huge cone that does slightly less damage than pendulum, but has a target cap twice as high.
Broadsword: It has parry. That's the only place where it's better.
Battle axe: It does not do stuns, which some people dislike for the 'wander away' mechanic.
I have multiple toons with bs, ax, and mace, all at 50. Mace is noticeably better, and I even skipped clobber to avoid the stun.
(sigh) I should re-roll my bs/sd as a wm/sd, it would be...epic.
Mechanically speaking, it's warmace, every time.
The three sets use a lot of the same animations and have pretty similar powers.
The main differences are:
Damage type
Broadsword- lethal
Battle Axe-lethal
War Mace- smashing
smashing is slightly less resisted than lethal though it is very close.
Utility/mez
Broadsword- -def, parry for def (can be leveraged to great effect), knockup on disembowel
Battle Axe- bunch of knock up and knockdown
War Mace- mix of knock down, knock up, and stuns. Clobber is high damage guaranteed stun on lieut/minion
damage
Broadsword: decent mix of AOE and single target, animations are a bit slow so overall DPA isn't so hot.
Battle Axe: same sort of mix of AOE and single target, but is a bit ahead of BS because it has a decent hitter in place of parry
War Mace: best of the bunch IMO. Has a very solid mix of single target and AOE damage. Crowd Control and Clobber really make the set.
While I haven't played BS, I do have characters with full access to both of the other sets and I find War Mace to be a great weapon set. As an odd suggestion, if you don't like the gimmicks involved in Titan Weapons, War Mace is a not bad substitute (not as powerful, but not as hard to play or level).
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Yep. Sort of along those same lines, Assault Rifle was going to be Assault Weapons and there was different guns for the different attacks (much like Medieval Weaponry would have had you switching back and forth between an Axe, Mace, Broadsword, and Crossbow). Redraw would have been crazy, and so now we have the Frankengun.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
The reason for the similarity is simple, originally they where just going to be one set: Medieval Weaponry.
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I would argue that ignoring BS's -def secondary is not exactly proper here. Besides just making everything easier to hit (really nice when you can use buildup to get the hits rolling), when you factor in IOs, every attack power in BS except Parry can get an Achille's Heel chance for -res slotted into it, you can throw out some really good debuffs with a sword.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Broadsword: It has parry. That's the only place where it's better.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Broadsword was made with Scrappers in mind, as it's all about damage, damage, damage. Not DPS, but insane Burst Damage. Crit with Headsplitter when using reds or heavily buffed ans watch that HP plummet.
War Mace and Battle Axe have more soft controls in them because like all other secondaries save for Fiery Melee, they were made with Tankers in mind. Not dealing crazy damage, but enough damage while throwing out a few specific forms of soft control to help with the job of tanking.
That's pretty much the real difference, WM and BA were designed with Tankers and Tanker numbers, so they compensated with various soft controls, whereas BS was for Scrappers with Scrapper numbers, and no real reliable soft controls in comparison. Heck, Battle Axe gets Gash, a very hard hitter, at level 2 on Scrappers because for Tankers, it's a level 4 power that is on lower damage modifiers. Broadsword has to wait until Disembowel for a similarly powerful attack, more or less. Not to say that Broadsword is terrible in comparison, but giving Battle Axe's numbers to Scrapper damage modifiers and crits with the set as a primary and not a secondary shows how powerset proliferation did alter the game quite a bit.
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I also like the Rikti Axe, unlocked by the invasion badges. My zombie Axe/WP uses it.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
That said, the Ax has the super cool bearded ax choice.. Totally awesome.. I think it's called the Barbarian's Axe in the costume creator. It does have to be purchased, though. I'll admit, I gave Ax a pass till that option came out, because the rest really are pretty boring. I bought the Barbarians costume pack as a whole, and when I saw that Ax in there I had to get to work on my new Brute.
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That sir is....HERESY!|
Originally Posted by mauk2
I have multiple toons with bs, ax, and mace, all at 50. Mace is noticeably better, and I even skipped clobber to avoid the stun.
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Clobber is the most awesome power ever, nobody should ever skip it. =(
And that's coming from a guy with a petless MM and my main (SS/invuln) still have a build that skipped invincibility. =p
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
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LOL, yeah, I know, I just hate the wobble.|
Originally Posted by FireWyvern
That sir is....HERESY!
Clobber is the most awesome power ever, nobody should ever skip it. =( And that's coming from a guy with a petless MM and my main (SS/invuln) still have a build that skipped invincibility. =p |
But even without clobber, crowd control is just...SO much awesome. They need to switch the target caps for battle axe between pendulum and cleave.
And they should add a crapton more bleeding to the bladed heavy weapon sets, Titan Weapon is eclipsing them completely. The ONLY advantage the one-handed heavy weapon sets have over TW is when they're paired with shield defense.
But I've been posting suggestions for bs/axe improvements for ages now. Nuttin' (sigh)
Parry's a pretty huge difference.
"Broadsword doesn't have anything going for it except the ability to CAP MELEE AND LETHAL DEFENSE ALMOST BY ITSELF" didn't sound as good, I'm guessing.
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Indeed!|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Parry's a pretty huge difference.
"Broadsword doesn't have anything going for it except the ability to CAP MELEE AND LETHAL DEFENSE ALMOST BY ITSELF" didn't sound as good, I'm guessing. |
Except katana, staff, and titan weapons all do that too.
As does martial arts on a tank.
It's a pretty common mechanic.
And honestly, as more and more iTrial stuff comes out, the relative potency of defense as a mitigator promises to be more and more diluted, anyway.
Maybe add some +resist to Parry, that'd help a lot.
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Wait... I thought only the ones in Broad Sword and Katana stack with themselves... I was under the impression that Defensive Sweep, Guarded Spin (And Storm Kick on a Tank) only reset their duration if it hit again before the defense bonus expired.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Indeed!
Except katana, staff, and titan weapons all do that too. As does martial arts on a tank. It's a pretty common mechanic. And honestly, as more and more iTrial stuff comes out, the relative potency of defense as a mitigator promises to be more and more diluted, anyway. Maybe add some +resist to Parry, that'd help a lot. |
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Wait... I thought only the ones in Broad Sword and Katana stack with themselves... I was under the impression that Defensive Sweep, Guarded Spin (And Storm Kick on a Tank) only reset their duration if it hit again before the defense bonus expired.
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Parry and Katana's variant do stack with themselves. Storm Kick on a tanker doesn't (but it does add +Def to all positions).
Not sure about defensive sweep and guarded spin. Kinda curious on that front now.
While it's not the final authority, Mid's shows Defensive Sweep as being stackable, but not Guarded Spin.
What is the real difference between the sets?
I mean they have basically the same animations. The only difference I see is that axe suffers from a complete lack of interesting weapon models.
Is there a mechanic difference that makes one shine over the others?
Thanks much!
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