Blasters and mez - Are we going about it wrong?


Abyssus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
My WP, Elec Armor, Energy Aura Brute gets along just fine without the fighting pool.
How do you mean just fine ?

You have cheated yourself of an additional 17% + of smash lethal resistance and nearly 6% def to everything. Replacing those with set bonuses is a pretty tall order.

Looking at WP that takes your smash lethal resistance from around 50% to 30% which is a real gutshot to survivability.

On energy aura it looks even worse.


 

Posted

Silly Tater Todd!
Don't you know that anything less than what you can do is simply letting yourself, your team and the city of Paragon down?!?

17% resistance, Tater Todd! How dare you insinuate that this isn't worth making certain power pools a requirement!
You think you have a choice?? You're simply choosing not to play right!!
Play or don't play... but don't ruin our game by refusing to improve yourself to the minimum required degree, which is the maximum, of course... Because everyone knows, anything less than what you can do... is simply not enough.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
How do you mean just fine ?

You have cheated yourself of an additional 17% + of smash lethal resistance and nearly 6% def to everything. Replacing those with set bonuses is a pretty tall order.

Looking at WP that takes your smash lethal resistance from around 50% to 30% which is a real gutshot to survivability.

On energy aura it looks even worse.
Yes, but not taking the fighting pool does not significantly hinder me from playing the game with a melee toon compared to a blaster toon...

Heck, without the fighting pool a lvl 50 scrapper, brute, tanker, stalker can still take on a mob at +2/+8 without extra pool powers or inspirations thanks to armors that protect them from Mez and KB/KD, Self heals/self regen/self absorb, Def and res baked into armor powers for protection, Self Rezes and God Modes like Elude, Overload, Power Surge that not only briefly covers their protection needs but also their endurance needs.

A blaster has to not only take their primary and secondary but other additional powers just to make them on par with other ATs. That sacrifice is not worth the outcome...especially when I have Defenders, Stalkers, Scrappers, Dominators ect that can dish out just as much damage but with little sacrifice and have a ton more safety at their disposal.

A blaster can still solo just like any other AT but why would you want to play one when your lvl 50 Scrapper with no IO's, or incarnate powers can complete a mish of +1/+8 council in 20-30 minutes compared to your non-incarnate lvl 50 blaster with inspirations, a ton of pool powers who takes almost double that amount of time to finish a mission?

A Blasters Sacrifice does not equal their gain...or tradeoff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Silly Tater Todd!
Don't you know that anything less than what you can do is simply letting yourself, your team and the city of Paragon down?!?

17% resistance, Tater Todd! How dare you insinuate that this isn't worth making certain power pools a requirement!
You think you have a choice?? You're simply choosing not to play right!!
Play or don't play... but don't ruin our game by refusing to improve yourself to the minimum required degree, which is the maximum, of course... Because everyone knows, anything less than what you can do... is simply not enough.

Yes because to a blaster 6% defense and 17% resistance really makes an impact! So much so that now it takes 4 hits hits to kill me instead of two!

:O



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGemini View Post

The real problems are that Blasters aren't doing enough damage and their secondary powers need attention.
*shrugs*

I feel like I do just fine on damage but I'm not all that experienced. I have a few blasters but I just play them when I feel like doing other stuff besides melee...mainly focusing on the blast set as a whole.

But my main blasters are a lvl 40something DP/Fire/Ice, a 40something Sonic/Ice/Munition, a 40something Energy/Fire/Fire, a 30something Elec/Energy and a 30something Dark/Energy. I can't recall the levels because I'm actually not near my game PC and haven't been for a week now and hadn't actually touched the game several weeks on top of that. And on top of that, I had been focusing on my DP blaster and Claws brute for a month before that. So yeah, I don't actually recall off the top of my head about those....

Anyway, Demon Revolver (DP blaster) feels like a very offensive and AoE damage oriented blaster. Focusing mainly on the blast, auras and AoEs from fire, (s)he finds herself doing pretty well taking down spawns even on teams with few buffs. Actually, I remember joining a team with an incarnate Dom who was helping his friends (which I'm now one of) lvl in RWZ missions and joining him in the mid 30s. It was tough going but I ended up getting a purple drop which I later sold and outfitted my blaster out with some IOs to help with defense (+frozen armor). Got h(im)er a SBE Lockdown Proc for Suppressive Fire and soloed pretty well at +1/x4 with only half a build. Rejoining my incarnate dom friend, I was tearing through purple foes right along side him. While the dom was doing an excruciatingly strong job of draining all the mobs, I was right beside him hailing bullets and helping the Plvling process for the rest of the team.

Maverick Reploid (the sonic) does a bountiful job of striking down tough targets. With the combo of -res and both Aim and BU, he can drop a single boss in a blink, just toss out tier 1+2 then Aim+BU Shout. He's not all that great for AoE but he's got controls. He can sleep a whole mob + bosses, he can keep foes off him with a slick, slow down masses with shiver and he's got a stun and 2 holds and for AoE, he can occasionally snipe-nuke. All things considered, for a control oriented build comparable to Stone Melee, I think this out-does what one can do for control and damage.

All that said, on a DPS metric, I'd have to admit Blasters don't exceed pure melee unless built to incorporate melee too. They do fine on the damage front on a pure comparison to damage dealing ATs (with dom being the outlier). They have options, strategies and synergies most melees cannot accomplish. While I feel some points should be addressed (like Blasters' low control and debuff numbers), they feel like they do a mass amount of damage either to a specific target or to many targets.

It's when it comes down to the whole balance of mitigation vs damage, like Arcana and others mention, does that whole 'do enough damage' comes into play. Frankly, I don't want blasters to do more damage. I'd rather accomplish more with my powers besides just damage. I'd like my limited controls to be much better at controlling, my debuffs to matter more all while not being hamstrung for mitigation.

I can see so many possibilities to improve Blasters to make them feel rewarding, make them an even bigger asset to a team and keep their niche concept somewhat intact...It's just rather frustrating and overwhelming that there are so many ways to go about it, I don't know what to think.

Needless to say, I really do enjoy my blasters. What they suffer from isn't necessarily from being blasters or even being squishy...more a lot to do with little things that add up...the way blast sets are set up and ordered, the way their secondaries are, the AI and binary nature of mez...one after another, it just piles up into something that makes blasters and ranged damage as a whole messy.


 

Posted

So, I decided to do a little bit of experimenting with Mids. First, I decided to build an Energy/Energy/Force Blaster, softcapped to Range, attacks fully slotted, etc. Second, I built a Force Field/Energy/Power Defender, softcapped to Range, attacks fully slotted, etc. I chose this set since I felt it was the most similar to the Energy/Energy/Force Blaster. Most of the powers are very similar in the builds, including pool powers. Also, Force Field not only thematically fits similar, but offers nothing to boost DMG that could obscure my results. Energy Blast, I think most people would agree is a middle of the road damage set.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Blaster
Primary Power Set: Energy Blast
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Power Bolt -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 2: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 4: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(5), Posi-Dmg/Rng(17), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21)
Level 6: Power Burst -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 8: Fly -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(25), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(36), AdjTgt-Rchg(36)
Level 12: Aim -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(34)
Level 14: Bone Smasher -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mako-Dam%(42)
Level 16: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(43)
Level 24: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 26: Explosive Blast -- BlastersW-Acc/Dmg(A), BlastersW-Dmg/Rchg(27), BlastersW-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), BlastersW-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), BlastersW-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), BlastersW-Rchg/Dam%(40)
Level 28: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Nova -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Boost Range -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Repulsion Bomb -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(45), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(45), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(45), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(46), Stpfy-KB%(46)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(37)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(11), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(11)
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 16.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 7.25% Defense(Smashing)
  • 7.25% Defense(Lethal)
  • 7.25% Defense(Fire)
  • 7.25% Defense(Cold)
  • 30.38% Defense(Energy)
  • 30.38% Defense(Negative)
  • 6% Defense(Psionic)
  • 8.5% Defense(Melee)
  • 38.81% Defense(Ranged)
  • 8.5% Defense(AoE)
  • 1.8% Max End
  • 7.5% Enhancement(Range)
  • 48.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 46% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 3% Enhancement(Stunned)
  • 22% SpeedFlying
  • 149.1 HP (12.37%) HitPoints
  • 22% JumpHeight
  • 22% SpeedJumping
  • MezResist(Held) 9.9%
  • MezResist(Immobilized) 9.9%
  • 18% (0.3 End/sec) Recovery
  • 1.58% Resistance(Fire)
  • 1.58% Resistance(Cold)
  • 1.26% Resistance(Energy)
  • 1.26% Resistance(Negative)
  • 22% SpeedRunning



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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Energy Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Power Bolt -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Deflection Shield -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17)
Level 4: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Insulation Shield -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+(19)
Level 8: Fly -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Power Burst -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Rchg+(13)
Level 14: Force Bolt -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(19), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(31), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(34), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(34), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(40)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 18: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Aim -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(21), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(40)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(45)
Level 26: Repulsion Bomb -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(27), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(27), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(31), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(31), Stpfy-KB%(45)
Level 28: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 30: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng(33), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Explosive Blast -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Nova -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(42), AdjTgt-Rchg(43)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Total Focus -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(48), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Temp Invulnerability -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(46)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15)
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 10.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 7.25% Defense(Smashing)
  • 7.25% Defense(Lethal)
  • 7.25% Defense(Fire)
  • 7.25% Defense(Cold)
  • 21.94% Defense(Energy)
  • 21.94% Defense(Negative)
  • 6% Defense(Psionic)
  • 8.5% Defense(Melee)
  • 26.63% Defense(Ranged)
  • 8.5% Defense(AoE)
  • 3% Enhancement(Stunned)
  • 57% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 73.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 22% SpeedFlying
  • 95.38 HP (9.38%) HitPoints
  • 22% JumpHeight
  • 22% SpeedJumping
  • Knockback (Mag -3)
  • Knockup (Mag -3)
  • MezResist(Held) 3.3%
  • MezResist(Immobilized) 3.3%
  • MezResist(Stunned) 2.2%
  • 22.5% (0.38 End/sec) Recovery
  • 26% (1.1 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 2.5% Resistance(Smashing)
  • 3.15% Resistance(Fire)
  • 3.15% Resistance(Cold)
  • 1.26% Resistance(Energy)
  • 1.26% Resistance(Negative)
  • 25% SpeedRunning



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Damage comparison between shared attacks:

Defender Power Bolt - 83.4
Blaster Power Bolt - 136.4

Defender Power Blast - 136.8
Blaster Power Blast - 223.6

Defender Power Burst - 176.8
Blaster Power Burst - 289.1

Defender Explosive Blast - 74.3
Blaster Explosive Blast - 120.3

Defender Energy Torrent - 79.2
Blaster Energy Torrent - 129.5

Defender Nova - 397.4
Blaster Nova - 521.1

Defender Total Focus - 257
Blaster Total Focus - 430.4


There is a noticeable difference between the range attacks. The one thing that really surprised me was how low the Blasters AoE damage was compared to what the Defender could dish out.

The Blaster has 2 extra melee attacks, Power Boost, and Boost Range. The Defender is provided built-in Defense, Status Protection, team support powers. Other than these differences, the two build share the same powers.

For me, the question I ask myself is whether the extra damage the Blaster build does in comparison to the Defenders build justify the lack of tools that the Defender has access to? That the Blasters build is provided instead? Honestly, I would say no.

Remove Force Fields and replace it with something like Radiation Emission, and the damage output for the Defender would only increase, getting closer to the Blasters output, while simultaneously being provided with much better tools.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
If you have a problem with people looking at the numbers and noticing what's being given up that problem is entirely yours.
No, actually, that problem seems to be anything but mine.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatred666 View Post
[snip]

Damage comparison between shared attacks:

Defender Power Bolt - 83.4
Blaster Power Bolt - 136.4

Defender Power Blast - 136.8
Blaster Power Blast - 223.6

Defender Power Burst - 176.8
Blaster Power Burst - 289.1

Defender Explosive Blast - 74.3
Blaster Explosive Blast - 120.3

Defender Energy Torrent - 79.2
Blaster Energy Torrent - 129.5

Defender Nova - 397.4
Blaster Nova - 521.1

Defender Total Focus - 257
Blaster Total Focus - 430.4


There is a noticeable difference between the range attacks. The one thing that really surprised me was how low the Blasters AoE damage was compared to what the Defender could dish out.

The Blaster has 2 extra melee attacks, Power Boost, and Boost Range. The Defender is provided built-in Defense, Status Protection, team support powers. Other than these differences, the two build share the same powers.

For me, the question I ask myself is whether the extra damage the Blaster build does in comparison to the Defenders build justify the lack of tools that the Defender has access to? That the Blasters build is provided instead? Honestly, I would say no.

Remove Force Fields and replace it with something like Radiation Emission, and the damage output for the Defender would only increase, getting closer to the Blasters output, while simultaneously being provided with much better tools.
Not a bad idea, frankly. Are those damage numbers from teamed defenders? What about solo? How about taking Defiance into consideration? I'd assume the damage numbers creep further apart when you consider that. The question would be how far apart and if the amount of utility gained in exchange is outweighed by it.

What about the stun in Repulsion Bomb? Or if it were slotted for damage instead? Or the stun durations on the melee attacks?

What about comparing the control utility of a defender vs blaster? Like maybe Sonic Blast or perhaps the debuff utility differences of Dark Blast? Frankly, I just don't feel it's justified that Blasters are hamstrung for utility like they are when their utility is limited to begin with. Why give Blasters -5% ToHit on their dark blasts yet give Defenders -9%? It's not like Blasters have Darkest Night and/or team +def buffs to stack to make them compete for the support role. If anything, it'd just be better for their own survival if they had effective debuffs and controls, more so than it would for the defender.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Oh heaven forgive me, I actually mentioned numbers in a thread about performance. Even worse, I actually pointed out that making bad choices gives poor results. How oh how shall I atone for this sin.

Maybe I will make a petless mastermind they are just fine.

Maybe I should make a blaster that only takes the tier 1 and 2 primary and tier 1 secondary attacks. They are all that we need to be just fine.

Oh I know, I will make a melee toon that skips all but the tier 1 in their secondaries. It's only 30% mitigation it certainly isn't worth making that a requirement
No one is arguing against the numbers. People were simply countering the notion that armored toons also need the Fighting pool to perform well. Fighting allows them to perform even better, but it is not required to be effective.

Also, all your bizarre points run counter to the central argument. The primary and secondary powers should be more important than the pool powers and blasters (no AT) should not be required to take Pool power x or y or x and y in order to be functional. Skipping Fighting is not like skipping Unyielding and Temp Invuln. In order to make sense your three ideas should have been:

I'll make an Ill/Rad without Hasten, they are just fine.

Maybe I should make a blaster that skips Teleport and Combat Jumping, those aren't necessary.

Oh I know, I will make a melee toon that skips all pool powers except for Presence and Recall Friend.

Because those are much more comparable to skipping Fighting than your inane examples.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
To be completely fair, the fighting pool is practically a requirement for the melee ATs. That is only one pool though. Blasters get told they must have 3 or 4.

Edit: And it used to be everyone had to take fitness.
If I read this in the literal sense I would hope to find somewhere in a manual or a post by a Dev "Blasters must take 3 or 4 Pool powers" and then I would like to read where it said "Everyone has to take fitness" prior to inherent fitness.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGemini View Post
If being Mez proof is the answer, why do I not see more blasters taking Clarion as soon as they can get it? Why do we not see more blasters factoring Acrobatics into their builds for protection against Holds prior to 50?
4 reasons.

1) The player is a Free player and can't use incarnate powers.
2) The player is a Premium player and can't use incarnate powers.
3) The player hasn't ground enough IXP and enough threads/merits to have it yet because it is part of the third tier instead of being in the Alpha.
4) The player abandoned the blaster prior to reaching 50 because they were mezzed and/or defeated too often.

Most of the level 50 blasters that I have seen (including myself) either have it, haven't unlocked it yet, or spent a crap ton of inf on a defense build so they could possibly select something else.

As far as acrobatics goes its because:
  1. They don't know that it provides any hold protection.
  2. Leaping does not fit their concept.
  3. They can't afford the endurance drain of an expensive toggle that provides so little benefit because they want to use their endurance to inflict damage which is their primary role.
  4. They've take Stealth so they can launch an Alpha in relative safety. They also take another power from this pool to unlock phase shift to use as a rescue power since they lack defense and resistances.
  5. They've taken Medicine and used up 2 power picks to get a self heal and stun resistance since stun is a more common mez than hold.
  6. They've taken Boxing, Tough and Weave for the defense because they have figured out that a mez that doesn't land doesn't affect them in the first place
  7. They have taken Speed for Hasten to increase their recharge (and therefore their damage output) and Super Speed for travel and its built in stealth.
  8. They actually want to take powers from their primary and secondary instead of skipping them for marginally useful pool powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGemini View Post
And, really, the mobs that truly mez are not that frequent. And only a couple groups in the game are really all that mez happy... and those mobs all tend to appear 40+ where you should be capable of handling them.
Mez is actually quite common and shows up in the game as early as level 8 and most groups now have at least one type of mob that mezzes and some have multiple mobs that mez. It hits hard about level 20 and just keeps getting worse. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "handling them" since blasters specifically lack any tools to do so unless of course you mean a larger inspiration tray which all other ATs also have. Even the other squishy ATs do not rely as heavily on break frees as do blasters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGemini View Post
Let's also establish that not everyone tries to solo on +0/x8 or really any difficulty higher than the basic settings. Therefore, they are not running into many mobs that will toss out mezzes at all.
You don't have to go that high to have mez present a problem. From +0/4x (or +0/3x against several groups) you can run into multiple mezzers in a spawn. You might be able to mez or kill one before being mezzed but the other one will get you.

The other side of the coin is that it's pointless or too much of an endurance draw to use AoE powers on settings below +0/3x. It means you are ignoring yet another chunk of your primary and/or secondary powers or that you are using them and wasting endurance that you most likely can't afford on too few targets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGemini View Post
Mezzing is a problem you run into against a handful of specific situations. And, most of those situations happen on large teams who should be able to manage it.
This may be true but those specific situations occur with startling regularity.

There are very few powers that grant mez protection to teammates. Those powers are frequently skipped especially by beginning and novice players. Those that do take them, frequently forget to use them, this is common for beginner, novice, and average players. Not only that, large balanced teams are not that frequent an occurrence, unless you are on a heavily populated server. Most of the teams that I see are 2-4 players

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGemini View Post
The real problems are that Blasters aren't doing enough damage and their secondary powers need attention.
I'll agree that blaster secondary power sets need attention desperately. I'll also point out that blaster damage output is not all that shabby, IF the blaster has beefed up their defenses so that they last long enough to use them AND they are mez free so that those defenses don't suppress and so that they are not limited to 3 powers.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
I called them inane. It was not a typo.
Yes, so you have changed your mind about blasters being fun because they do poorly ?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Yes, so you have changed your mind about blasters being fun because they do poorly ?
Nope (although I prefer to call them team reliant). I never said I wasn't insane, I was just clarifying what I called your examples.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Nope (although I prefer to call them team reliant). I never said I wasn't insane, I was just clarifying what I called your examples.
Really ?

Then let me help your noble endeavor.

Satire: 1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

You seem to have missed that the whole post was satirical and exaggerated.


 

Posted

Another_Fan can you explain to me why I would want to roll a Blaster rather than a Dominator or corruptor?



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Another_Fan can you explain to me why I would want to roll a Blaster rather than a Dominator or corruptor?
Well, who can pass up the opportunity to dip into 3 or 4 power pools just so you can spend slightly less time held, stunned & faceplanted?

=P


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Another_Fan can you explain to me why I would want to roll a Blaster rather than a Dominator or corruptor?
I started typing up a rambling reply to this, but I'll just say this:
If this question was directed at me, at least...

Beyond the thrill of playing the glass cannon in this game (which I do very much enjoy), the Primary and Secondary are both loaded with nothing but straight-up OFFENSE/ATTACKS.
No needing to screw about with controlling, debuffing before you can do your thing...
Just find your target(s), decide if you're going to start at range or up close... and unleash whatever you feel like from your large arsenal.

If you like options and style and the thrill of being the underdog and surviving fights without a full Health bar... Blaster is the best choice in this game.

I love it... Most of the time, I wipe the floor with my enemies, but I enjoy it even more when it's tough... Maybe a green inspiration to save me... the last enemy drops while I just have a sliver of health... That's being a hero! That's why!


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Eh, so I ended up posting a rambling reply anyway...


Here's a more direct answer:

A Blaster over a Dominator or Corruptor because the Blaster is fullout offense, both Primary and Secondary, which gives you more options for how you wish to damage your opponent(s) than any other AT.
There's also no real gimmick to use their powers effectively... where as the Dominator relies on Domination to obtain greater ability.
The Corruptor can fire its ranged attacks, but lacks any ability to sock the enemies in the face and, more importantly, their Secondary powers are entirely support (often times not even for the benefit of yourself when playing solo).

The Blaster is the soloist's death-defying ace dog-fighting pilot.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post

If you like options and style and the thrill of being the underdog and surviving fights without a full Health bar... Blaster is the best choice in this game.

I love it... Most of the time, I wipe the floor with my enemies, but I enjoy it even more when it's tough... Maybe a green inspiration to save me... the last enemy drops while I just have a sliver of health... That's being a hero! That's why!
Sooo you like being gimp.





Sorry, EK, jk


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
You seem to have missed that the whole post was satirical and exaggerated.
Actually, I got that. You exaggerated so far, it became inane. Your point drowned in your own hyperbole. You lost your audience (unless of course you are just talking to yourself, which is possible, I do that myself sometimes).


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Sooo you like being gimp.
Since I am insane, I'll address this. I like having potential. Rather than just being amazing all the time, I like suppressed, restrained power that cannot be released... yet. But then something happens that allows it to be released.

I prefer a team working together as opposed to 6 soloists who split up (although splitting up into two or three groups sometimes and then coming back together is also awesome).


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Sooo you like being gimp.





Sorry, EK, jk
Haha!
There's an element of truth to it though... not "gimp", but underdog, for sure.

I also realize that, if/when Blasters are brought up to balance in performance a little, adjusting the difficulty should allow me to still have the fun I have with them.

I just think that element of danger should, and will, remain for the AT, so long as they keep to the Glass Cannon as much as can be within reason.

People who hate Blasters right now... May not ever love them when/if they are adjusted. Hopefully they won't continue to hate them, of course, but not everything is for everyone... And the Blaster should keep its balance based around as much offense as can be managed at the expense of defense. The scale just seems to need a bit of tipping in the Blaster's favor compared to the other ATs. Some more damage (through several means) and top it off with whatever increments of survival assistance is needed for a level scale.


Also, us 'gimps' laugh at the prettyboy wimpy min/maxers!
Of course it is easier if you optimize things for yourself... but easier does not equal better!


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Actually, I got that. You exaggerated so far, it became inane. Your point drowned in your own hyperbole. You lost your audience (unless of course you are just talking to yourself, which is possible, I do that myself sometimes).
Swift used eating babies, it worked but he had a much more dab hand than I.

As to losing my audience, I really have no way to know, I am curious how you manage it ?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Another_Fan can you explain to me why I would want to roll a Blaster rather than a Dominator or corruptor?
These days there really isn't any reason.

If you want a challenge that will press you, just crank up the difficulty and head to dark astoria.

The prep work for soloing spawns on a dom or a corruptor is often less than on a blaster, and by upping the difficulty I can get the same kind of challenge on those ATs I get on a blaster at lower difficulty.

If you really want to go town and kill things a scrapper or brute is your bread and butter now. No set up, no fuss, no muss, just go in and kill things.

I suppose if you enjoy knowing you are working harder to gain less a blaster would be your choice.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post

If you really want to go town and kill things a scrapper or brute is your bread and butter now. No set up, no fuss, no muss, just go in and kill things.
If they had a version of scrappers or brutes that used the blast sets instead of the melee sets, I'd probably be playing those instead of blaster.

I play blaster because that's the AT that can do straight up *punch* but with blasts...no muss, no fuss, just blast. That said, I usually don't take the melee attacks unless it actually fulfills the character's concept better.