I think it's interesting they haven't used the Assassin Strike mechanic.
/Devices has cloaking device...
The mine and bomb could be a grenade-likes short range GTAoE's on a delay or something (we already have grenade animations and widgets), and while hidden they executes as they do now.
Could easily work the turret suggestion you made into that as well.
/unsigned.
Not that I don't think that Devises needs help - it need a good deal of work - but I don't think this is in any way what the set needs.
The issue is that Devises was designed with something in mind... and it fails to deliver on that. This was the stealth set, what was supposed to make Blasters into Snipers and trappers. Everything about the set just screams that it is either there to let the player remain unnoticed, or to let the player stay out of melee range. Yet it fails to deliver on either of these.
Frankly, it needs a lot more work than some arbitrary doubling of the top tier powers. The lower-tier powers need just as much work.
Also, what possible reason whould we have to using an immobile Gun Turret pet? The thing is already annoying enough as is, as it doesn't last nearly long enough to justify it's insane Endurance cost. What advantage could be gained by making it stationary? That strikes me as even less useful to a steamrolling team than /Devises currently is.
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I've always felt that both Time Bomb and Trip Mine can do with a slight change - make them into stick bombs. Here's what I mean:
Trip Mine becomes Proximity Bomb - the character tosses the bomb over a short distance, say 20 feet, and it can stick to any surface, be it floor, wall or ceiling. The bomb has a two-second arm time, after which point it works exactly like Tripe Mine does today. What this means is it becomes uninterruptible and much faster to deploy, but retains its use in creating minefields. Simple toss many of those on the ground where you want to lay them. This should let flying characters deploy those without having to be near the ground, it would let people mine walls where the floor might interfere with line of sight (caves) and it would allow these to be used as delayed grenades.
Time Bomb becomes... Well, Time Bomb - the character the bomb over a medium distance, say 40 feet, and it can stick to any surface, be it floor, wall or ceiling. Once it lands, the bomb deploys and presents its standard 15 second timer, exploding after it expires. What this means is the bomb becomes uninterruptible, but it can still be very slow as your character fiddles with the thing to arm it for a few seconds. It allows the bomb to be deployed where the enemies are, it allows the bomb to be deployed while under fire and it allows the bomb to be deplopyed by flying characters, while at the same time retaining its use as a trap. This, then, becomes a question of ensuring people either stay over the bomb long enough, or come to it and stay long enough, to make the cost and the blast worth the investment.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I really think that [Time Bomb] should grant an additional power when you pick it [Remote Detonator]. You might also implement Sam's idea here by allowing you to toss the bomb, and not have to place it where you are. At any rate, when you place a Time Bomb, Remote Detonator gets an orange ring a la Dual Blades, and when you click the power... it explodes the bomb, and not until. If there HAS to be a time delay, it would be the time between tossing the bomb, and the activation of the orange ring and the ability to explodinate.
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(I was rushing before I finally crashed out from lack of sleep) Originally the immobile turret was more powerful than its mobile counterpart and like the first incarnation of the current Gun Drone; could only be placed on the ground.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
/unsigned.
Not that I don't think that Devices needs help - it need a good deal of work - but I don't think this is in any way what the set needs. The issue is that Devices was designed with something in mind... and it fails to deliver on that. This was the stealth set, what was supposed to make Blasters into Snipers and trappers. Everything about the set just screams that it is either there to let the player remain unnoticed, or to let the player stay out of melee range. Yet it fails to deliver on either of these. Frankly, it needs a lot more work than some arbitrary doubling of the top tier powers. The lower-tier powers need just as much work. Also, what possible reason whould we have to using an immobile Gun Turret pet? The thing is already annoying enough as is, as it doesn't last nearly long enough to justify it's insane Endurance cost. What advantage could be gained by making it stationary? That strikes me as even less useful to a steamrolling team than /Devices currently is. |
Most of the previous suggestions to Devices often involve full replacement of existing powers so the 'doubling' is to keep existing players happy, giving them a throwaway bonus they may or may not use or to allow those who'd prefer a more fast-paced throw-down to switch out for the newer tool. And with the Gun Drone suggestion it was the reverse because some of us were happier with the old clunky & immobile Turret which allowed us to lure enemies into a corridor of death.
So maybe lower the cost of the Drone since it's of a lighter DPS compared to the turret which is grounded and immobile but has higher DPS.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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they already improved /devices.....it's called "/traps".
BA-DUM-TSHHHHHHH!
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I too, wrote my reply under less than ideal circumstances, having only just gotten up.
That said, let me see if I understand your proposal.
A /Devices player, on chossing Trip Mine, Time Bomb, or Gun Drone, will get two different, individually slottable powers out of it?
If that is so... the not only No, but absolutly not!
No, this isn't 'Just Like Swap Ammo or Staff Mastery.' This is like the Kheldians... but they were designed with a mechanic like that in mind. Ignoring the issues regarding having enough slots for these powers, this would be a lot of work for the Devs, with the only real reward being opening a floodgate of whining players, clammoring for additional powers to be added to their favorite sets.
No. No. NO!
One power. One set of slots. You want to give a single power alternate mechanics while keeping a single function, give me a mechanic or situation that the game can use to switch between them, like Momentum in Titan Weapons, or how the new Assassin Strike works.
But adding new powers is in no way, shape, or form, the right way to fix this, or any, set.
(Also, remember that any change made to either Trip Mine or Time Bomb will need to be reflected in the version in Traps. Changes will need to be done carefully, to make sure Traps doesn't become Overpowered while trying to get Devises up to par.)
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I want Sam's + Thirty-Seven's versions.
The damage might need tweaking down, but only if the cast time is brought down massively (5 seconds is absurd... 9 seconds is simply insane). I'd really like it to have an animation similar to Caltrops, except with a second or so of fiddling first (giving it ~2 seconds cast time). That'll give you ~4 seconds between activation and first possible detonation for Trip Mine.
As for the OP: The penalties are far too big IMO. 25 base damage for trip mine? I also think it'd work better to use the excusive mechanic (as is used by some SoA powers), so you could pick either the fast or slow version of each, but not both. Still, I don't think /devices needs extra compromises.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I actually think that's viable, since that's more or less what Detonator does to henchmen. Let's look at what it does to non-sentient henchmen since that's closer to the truth. On non-sentient henchmen, Detonator grants a new power, which deals a lot of damage and then commits "silent kill to self." There are no limits to when you can activate detonator, but the henchman is still bound in terms of when he can activate this by the ability to activate powers. If you catch a robot in the middle of Full Auto Laser, the robot will wait to finish that attack before detonating. If you catch a robot being knocked back, the robot will get up before doing so. If you try it on a robot who's still landing, he'll finish his foldout and then deotnate. I don't see why this can't work on Time Bomb.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I really think that [Time Bomb] should grant an additional power when you pick it [Remote Detonator]. You might also implement Sam's idea here by allowing you to toss the bomb, and not have to place it where you are. At any rate, when you place a Time Bomb, Remote Detonator gets an orange ring a la Dual Blades, and when you click the power... it explodes the bomb, and not until. If there HAS to be a time delay, it would be the time between tossing the bomb, and the activation of the orange ring and the ability to explodinate.
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Right now, Time Bomb is an immobile pet. Like War Hulks, it has a power it uses when it is killed, and it kills itself under certain conditions. It should be a simple matter to create a Detonator-like power which forces a self-kill to the target, but only if the target is tagged "time bomb" and the target's owner is the same as the detonator's owner. This prevents the Devices Blaster from detonating enemies and it prevents the Blaster from detonating bombs belonging to other Blasters.
We can also use the Titan Weapons mechanic of Momentum, but NOT to swap versions of the power. If you play Titan Weapons, you'll notice that two of the set's powers CANNOT be used unless the character is tagged as having Momentum. This is actually a very old tagging mechanic, the same which prevents Kheldians from using Human Form powers when they're in Crab or Squid forms, and the same which prevents you from using powers in the Architect Studio B or when you're dead. So have the character enter a "Time Bomb" state several seconds after setting down a time bomb, which normally times out to coincide with the Time Bomb's timed detonation. Then have the Detonator power only active when in the "Time Bomb" state. When activated, the Detonator would cause any pet tagged "Time Bomb" with the same owner as the caster of the power to self-kill, which would in turn trigger the pet's Time Bomb power which deals damage. Using Detonator would take the character out of the "Time Bomb" state and make the power grey out once more.
Yes, this means that if a Blaster has laid down more than one Time Bomb, it would detonate them all, but with a recharge time of 6 minutes and a lifetime of 15 seconds, that not just unlikely, it's impossible. It also has the benefit of not having to select the Time Bomb to detonate it, even though technically, using Detonator as I described it above should auto-target the bomb if the Blaster has nothing selected. Henchmen upgrades for Masterminds will always target henchmen over hostile targets and inapplicable allies when used with no active target, for instance. I assume powers have some variety of /target_custom_nearest with conditions corresponding the power's target specifics.
Either way, this is doable, but I would STILL hate for the power to be interruptible. I hate interruptible powers as a general thing, at least outside of very special circumstances.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I would like to add the proposal here to buff caltrops to give it a chance (possibly no greater than 30%) for immobilization (mag 2 or 3) per-tick to help with its effectiveness, or maybe even enemies in the caltrop patch suffer a higher mag and longer lasting immob from web grenade?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Cloaking Device - Would be nice to have a critical hit component for the first attack done while cloaked. Maybe add a Terror component as well similar to Stalkers A.S. attack. Cloaking Device having unsuppressed defenses would make it unique and a bit more worth while taking. If it is not for the defenses a stealth IO pretty much does the same with super speed active. This I can confirm since I have that combo on all my toons.
Time Bomb - Green circle around Icon denotes bomb is ready to use. A second click on the icon triggers the bomb.
Trip Mine - Less interrupt-able. Blasters with low defenses are pretty much stuck to placing this bomb at the start of fights only. Trying to place one in melee range is or can be disastrous, especially against AVs..
Gun Drone - As the Op mentioned. Similar mechanics to Time Bomb. Once click activates the Gun Drone. Second click on Icon places green circle and makes it stationary old school. More damage for sacrifice of mobility. Maybe make it where once changed you cannot change it back. Again depending on what is needed to balance out the conversions from mobile to stationary.
I would like to see Device have the options to have different powers based on what you picked from the power set. So the more you pick from it the more different options you get to change. Again following the whole Ying and Yang rule of taking from one area improves another and so forth.
So for example picking up Caltrops and Taser would allow for the option at another level to convert Caltrops to Stunning Caltrops.
Or picking up powers would combine into something a bit more unique. EG Cloaking Device and Trip mine would give some sort of team buff. Maybe a +to Hit because of some upper hand.
Of course the combo idea of giving buffs has zero effect on older players as it does not hinder or limit them. The ability to change your powers is an OPTION so again it allows older players to keep what they have and not be affected by the updates.
Or make Device the first set with an A and B option. Choices A are the original and B is the newer / modified choice.
I am not saying that all these powers need to be changed at once. I would say pick a direction and insert the powers in one at a time if needed, over a period of time. So they could start with Gun Drone or Combo mobile / stationary Gun Drone choice. You pick what you want and you can mix and match old and new.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I'd love to see the weapons themselves get upgraded. A lot of tech just looks so outdated with all the things we have in the game now. Never really understood why Devices got ignored for Weapon Customization.
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Because Devices doesn't use a weapon, it uses power props that are unique to the power. A "weapon" before Dual Blades came out was a power-independent prop that was linked to an activation sequences that affected movement animations and persisted outside of using the specific powers. Devices doesn't do that. What devices does is mechanically identical to what Electric Melee does - plays an animation and summons a 3D prop. Fire Blast does more than Devices since it actually has a "weapon-type prop" in the form of the flaming hands, which has its own unique activation sequence. Yeah, figure that one out the hard way.|
Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
I'd love to see the weapons themselves get upgraded. A lot of tech just looks so outdated with all the things we have in the game now. Never really understood why Devices got ignored for Weapon Customization.
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Devices COULD have received alternate props with power customization, but when BABs and crew first made this, they had so much work to do they didn't add much more than what was there at base. The idea was that they'd add to this over time. There was even the implication that weapon sets WOULD get power customization options, which they didn't get at the time to save on workload. However, when BABs left, it seems like the art team locked the idea of power customization in a safe and threw away the key, since aside from a token effort here or there as busywork for a new artist, we have gotten nothing at all added to it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Tyger
These days we have powers which grant other powers within sets; starting with Dual Pistols 'Change Ammo' power and contuining with Staff Mastery so why not change Trip Mine, Time Bomb and Gun Drone to grant two versions of each power? Each power can be slotted (although if each one gets a deault slot it would give Devices up to 3 extra than other sets)
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
That said, let me see if I understand your proposal.
A /Devices player, on chossing Trip Mine, Time Bomb, or Gun Drone, will get two different, individually slottable powers out of it? If that is so... the not only No, but absolutly not! No, this isn't 'Just Like Swap Ammo or Staff Mastery.' This is like the Kheldians... but they were designed with a mechanic like that in mind. Ignoring the issues regarding having enough slots for these powers, this would be a lot of work for the Devs, with the only real reward being opening a floodgate of whining players, clammoring for additional powers to be added to their favorite sets. No. No. NO! One power. One set of slots. You want to give a single power alternate mechanics while keeping a single function, give me a mechanic or situation that the game can use to switch between them, like Momentum in Titan Weapons, or how the new Assassin Strike works. But adding new powers is in no way, shape, or form, the right way to fix this, or any, set. (Also, remember that any change made to either Trip Mine or Time Bomb will need to be reflected in the version in Traps. Changes will need to be done carefully, to make sure Traps doesn't become Overpowered while trying to get Devises up to par.) |
Scrapper Staff Mastery grants you three "powers" (the stances) you can put on your power tray and switch between, but they have no "slots" and only serve to make the OTHER powers perform differently. Such a mecahnic might permit Devices to let a character switch between "combat mine" and "pre-combat mine" freely, without giving him extra slots (and thus without letting him get extra set bonuses).
But Stalker Staff Mastery does NOT let you choose different stances -- you're stuck with one, although you do at least get its benefits. So a Trapper could get limited to only the "pre-combat mine" he already has, under this model (should the Devs choose, for balance reasons).
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Oh dur, why didn't I think of that. That's also how the dual pistols change ammo toggles change the secondary damage effects. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Staff Mastery might provide the model for this after all.
Scrapper Staff Mastery grants you three "powers" (the stances) you can put on your power tray and switch between, but they have no "slots" and only serve to make the OTHER powers perform differently. Such a mecahnic might permit Devices to let a character switch between "combat mine" and "pre-combat mine" freely, without giving him extra slots (and thus without letting him get extra set bonuses). But Stalker Staff Mastery does NOT let you choose different stances -- you're stuck with one, although you do at least get its benefits. So a Trapper could get limited to only the "pre-combat mine" he already has, under this model (should the Devs choose, for balance reasons). |
And we could incorporate the Remote Detonator ustilising the new situational power tray so you don't have to sacrifice multi-placement of bombs by only allowing one click to place and another to detonate.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Devices could do with some minor improvements on the top trio of powers. Gun Drone overcame its immobility by becoming airborne but then everyone else started doing it (curse you Malta!) and the mines are often situational; great fun solo or in a tactical team but no fun in a zerg-rush powerteam given the long activation time and interruptability. Often improvements make for an either-or case but I ask:
Why can't we have both?
These days we have powers which grant other powers within sets; starting with Dual Pistols 'Change Ammo' power and contuining with Staff Mastery so why not change Trip Mine, Time Bomb and Gun Drone to grant two versions of each power? Each power can be slotted (although if each one gets a deault slot it would give Devices up to 3 extra than other sets); those that prefer the classic version can keep their classic version slotted, those who like a more fast-paced lite-version can slot that instead and those who like to have a full arsenal can carefully slot both to adapt to situations as they come.
For the powers:
Trip Mine grants High Yield and Low Yield:
High Yield - classic, interruptable Trip Mine
Low Yield - uninterruptable version that deals one-eigth of the power but only takes a quarter of the time to place giving it half the damage-dealing but making it easier to drop down.
Time Bomb grants Long Timer and Short Fuse
Long Timer - classic Time Bomb
Short Fuse - Similar to Low Yield, uninterruptable but on a much shorter 3 second timer and lower yield.
Gun Drone grants Mobile and Immobile
Immobile - Legacy placeable Gun Drone, fixed to its location
Mobile - current Gun Drone that follows you around.
We get the best of both worlds if we want and no-one loses out because they can just keep their preferred powers instead.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union