Making Snipes uninterruptible and quicker would be a good start, but I fear it would come with a decrease in damage for the fast version, which would still kill the power's DPA and DPS. Personally, I'd like to see the basic snipe retain its scale damage of 2.76, with the interruptible variant being bumped up to the 3.56 scale of Dominator snipes.
Generally speaking, snipes just aren't very useduf. They are a very poor use of time, their extreme range is largely useless for actual combat since it puts you out of range of most of your powers, but still within range of enemy ranged attacks. They need CONSIDERABLY better DPA, either through higher damage or through lower animation time, and splitting them in two seems like a good way to achieve both versions. That is, provided current performance is taken to be the base for improvement, rather than the cap of performance.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Unless you're talking about (potentially) enemy snipers.... no, it doesn't, in most cases. Something I regularly use to good advantage. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Generally speaking, snipes just aren't very useduf. They are a very poor use of time, their extreme range is largely useless for actual combat since it puts you out of range of most of your powers, but still within range of enemy ranged attacks
|
As far as the OP's idea... sure. The biggest issue, though, is one you touched on - that the Stalker's version is dependent on their "Hidden" status. If not hidden, it's uninterruptable, etc. If they *are* hidden, it uses the old animation/damage/etc. Blasters have nothing like that to compare - yes, we get "stacks" of damage with defiance 2.0, but honestly I don't think I'd want that to be the defining item. Or, for that matter, range. Some of my blasters are happy in melee, sure - but if I'm at 38 feet, I don't want to "guess" what side of a mob's at 40 and will give the current snipe animation. Or have a mob running away (which, I know, they *never* do
) and suddenly find I'm using the current animation when I'm expecting to use the new (or vice versa.) To be really honest, the number one issue I have with snipes is the second Tohit check - and all the stupid things that can "block" it. I've had mobs walk behind a skinny support beam or tree, smaller than the mob itself, as that second check went off - therefore making the snipe fail. Dump that and trim the time slightly.
Quote:
What I'm saying is that enemy ranged attacks are intentionally designed to have a longer range than 80 feet. And even if they didn't, Arcana had a pretty good write-up of the several different ranges past which Blaster damage output decreases. I believe they were 0-40 feet for the most damage, 40-80 for about 2/3 damage and 80-150 for pretty much just snipes. My point is that if you're using a snipe at max range, you have nothing to follow it up with until the enemy closes in, and "hoverblasting" has never been a viable approach.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Unless you're talking about (potentially) enemy snipers.... no, it doesn't, in most cases. Something I regularly use to good advantage.
|
About the only thing people have consistently and doggedly defended snipes as being good for in all situations is pulling. I can't really argue with that point, I just wish I didn't have to pay with a power pick and give up what is potentially the single-target attack I NEED to not trail behind in single-target damage (thank you, Assault Rifle, for teaching me this life lesson) for it. I mean, guess you could quite Scrapper Confront as a power that does almost nothing but pull, but at least that's auto-hit and costs no endurance.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
The 8sec animate time is prior to slotting Interrupt Reduction enhancers?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Wesley Snipes moves too fast for you to hit him with an Assassin Strike.
Quote:
Nice|
Originally Posted by Smedley_Prime
Wesley Snipes moves too fast for you to hit him with an Assassin Strike.
|
btw is your forum name a homage to Smedly Butler and Optimus Prime
Quote:
I don't remember exactly why I picked Smedley for my first COH character all those years ago, but I added Prime because I guessed I'd be making more than one character with that name. And sure enough, later on I did end up making Smedley Omega, Smedley Beta, and Smedley Gamma.
|
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
btw is your forum name a homage to Smedly Butler and Optimus Prime
|
Quote:
"hoverblasting" has kept my defenders (and some blasters) alive - so has "telesniping" - in their early/mid levels at times. "Viable?" Works for me. But I'm not playing the "omgmusthavemaxdpseverysecond" game. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
My point is that if you're using a snipe at max range, you have nothing to follow it up with until the enemy closes in, and "hoverblasting" has never been a viable approach.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
The 8sec animate time is prior to slotting Interrupt Reduction enhancers?
|
Thanks.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Quote:
I think hoverblasting is an independent thing from sniping: in fact in my experience they have very little tactical overlap (although I used to do this pulling thing in the STF where I would snipe-pull one of the AVs by initiating a snipe from hover and then detoggling hover to yank myself out of line of sight rapidly, I don't think that counts).|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What I'm saying is that enemy ranged attacks are intentionally designed to have a longer range than 80 feet. And even if they didn't, Arcana had a pretty good write-up of the several different ranges past which Blaster damage output decreases. I believe they were 0-40 feet for the most damage, 40-80 for about 2/3 damage and 80-150 for pretty much just snipes. My point is that if you're using a snipe at max range, you have nothing to follow it up with until the enemy closes in, and "hoverblasting" has never been a viable approach.
|
Hoverblasting works best when you have counter mez: it works really well if you are energy blast, and if you can manipulate the enemy AI and are in the right setting it can be practically cheating. Outside of those circumstances, its an ok tactic made far less useful than it used to be by the devs when they decided long ago that shooting at things that couldn't hurt you back was something that should only be true for controllers and tankers.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I had thought of this idea for snipes to, but in the end I think it's a bad move. At least, if the suggestion is anything like I was thinking.
Turn the Snipe into a high damage attack, like Assassin Strike!
Even if it's not high damage, but still a really good attack, I think the sets without a snipe will get shafted.
OH hey, look, the sets with Snipes just got an awesome attack to throw into their attack chain!
Oh...sorry Ice Blast, Dual Pistols, and Sonic Blast!
This may also be what's keeping them from getting changed.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
To make Snipes useful... the Devs need to make Snipes useful AS Snipes.
Personally?
Yes, they need more damage. If there was some way for Snipes to critical if the target hasn't been alerted to the character's presence... that would be a great.... But I'm not sure there's a way to do that. Either way, they need more bang for their buck.
However, there is something I think they need even more: Debuffs. Both to the target hit, and to any enemies around the target.
All the targets should have the Demoralized effect... or at least a good chance of being affected by it. But the target itself, if not defeated, should have additional effects... I'm leaning toward -Damage and -Resistance to represent that they just took one heck of a big hit. (If the Devs are truly ambitious, these effects could be tailored to each set... but I doubt they would put that much effort into it.)
I know that would make the Snipes more interesting to me, at least.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Quote:
I meant to say "hoversniping" but my brain got cross-wired. When all melee enemies were given ranged attacks, hoverblasting stopped being broken and became just a smart idea. Hoversniping still remains a tactic some tried using, where they'd hover up to the height of their Snipe range and snipe enemies on the ground, most of whom had 80-foot-range attacks. This is completely safe, but your DPS is limited to what JUST your Snipe can produce, which is pretty much crap.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I think hoverblasting is an independent thing from sniping
|
I didn't mean to discredit hoverblasting. I've used it extensively when I still played Blasters. In fact, I couldn't play a Blaster who didn't Hover for this precise reason. And no, it's not relevant to sniping aside from me mixing my terms.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
For what it's worth I enjoy using the snipes on my characters who have them. I'm probably one of the few who don't have an extreme hatred with the way they work now. I've never been a totally "omgmusthavemaxdpseverysecond" type player either so I enjoy some of the tactical intangibles sniping provides.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"hoverblasting" has kept my defenders (and some blasters) alive - so has "telesniping" - in their early/mid levels at times. "Viable?" Works for me. But I'm not playing the "omgmusthavemaxdpseverysecond" game.
|
Having said that would I be adverse to some kind of improvement in the sniping mechanic in general? Probably not. But to be honest it's not really bothering me that some kind of improvement like this hasn't happened yet. Frankly I'm more annoyed by the Nova crashes (in light of the way Judgement powers now work) than I ever was at snipes.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
Now see, I haven't been bothered by the end crashes of Nukes for blasters, but I have for my Defs/Corrs. And the arrival of Judgement hasn't made me for a second think "OMG NUKES SUCK" just because every AT can get them.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
For what it's worth I enjoy using the snipes on my characters who have them. I'm probably one of the few who don't have an extreme hatred with the way they work now. I've never been a totally "omgmusthavemaxdpseverysecond" type player either so I enjoy some of the tactical intangibles sniping provides.
Having said that would I be adverse to some kind of improvement in the sniping mechanic in general? Probably not. But to be honest it's not really bothering me that some kind of improvement like this hasn't happened yet. Frankly I'm more annoyed by the Nova crashes (in light of the way Judgement powers now work) than I ever was at snipes. |
The fact that every AT can get them, means those with ranged sets get TWO Nukes. So the idea of "OH NO CHANGE NUKES BECAUSE OF JUDGEMENT" doesn't make for a sound arguement imo.
Change it because end crashes suck? That's a sound arguement. However, then I look at the weapon sets and think "wasn't that kind of their draw for their nukes...oh hey you have to redraw...oh hey themetic...oh hey whatever" I dont know, it just seems like weapon sets might lose out with any change to nukes (well, maybe not archery).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I'm not against Nova crashes because Judgment powers have now allowed other ATs to have their own "mini-novas". I don't really care about that issue. I'm against Nova crashes because I've compared the pros and cons of using my Tier 9 Novas versus my Judgment powers on the characters (like Blasters) who can have both at the same time.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Now see, I haven't been bothered by the end crashes of Nukes for blasters, but I have for my Defs/Corrs. And the arrival of Judgement hasn't made me for a second think "OMG NUKES SUCK" just because every AT can get them.
The fact that every AT can get them, means those with ranged sets get TWO Nukes. So the idea of "OH NO CHANGE NUKES BECAUSE OF JUDGEMENT" doesn't make for a sound arguement imo. Change it because end crashes suck? That's a sound arguement. However, then I look at the weapon sets and think "wasn't that kind of their draw for their nukes...oh hey you have to redraw...oh hey themetic...oh hey whatever" I dont know, it just seems like weapon sets might lose out with any change to nukes (well, maybe not archery). |
Basically if I'm faced with a situation where I could either use my Tier 9 Nova or my Judgement power I would probably use my Judgement power 99 times out of a 100 despite the fact that the Nova would probably do far more damage. The fact that the Nova tends to suffer from a huge END crash paired with the idea that its recharge tends to be much slower than the Judgement means there's practically -no- reason to ever use my Tier 9 Nova under any circumstances. I consider that a serious game balance problem.
Now whether that means that Judgements tend to be far too easy to use or that the old Tier 9 Novas are now too restrictive that's hard to say. But if the Devs do not have a problem with the way Judgements are working now then I would submit that its time for a review of some of the qualities of the old Tier 9s that make them so much -less- desirable than the newer Judgment powers.
Basically Incarnate powers should not make Tier 9 powers effectively pointless.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
To help snipes, you could always take a page from Water Blast's Jet Stream...
Let the snipe be slow and interruptible when you cast it first. If it goes off and connects, it grants you a short term temp power (I dunno, lasts 8 seconds) that calls a faster casting snipe animation. The slower snipe also has a 75% chance of recharging itself instantly while the faster snipe has a 30% chance of recharging itself instantly.
The result? Slow charge followed by *HIT!* *pop* Snipe is recharged quick snipe hit *HIT!* there might be a chance you can pull that off again for 3 strong strikes in a row or even 4 but that lower % chance (or a miss) will eventually kill that streak.
The cost? Snipes are still pretty costly and you have to manage the hit in the first place. Chance is still a factor.
Me personally, I just love the look of some of the snipes and the prospect of a volley of Proton Volleys or a barrage of Blazing Bolts sounds like it'd be awfully mean and painful.
I'm all for this, prior to the target knowing the player is near, they perform the sniper power and "Snipe" appears over the target's head with a ton of damage done.
@Joshua.
Quote:
That seems like a good way to improve snipes.
|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
To help snipes, you could always take a page from Water Blast's Jet Stream...
Let the snipe be slow and interruptible when you cast it first. If it goes off and connects, it grants you a short term temp power (I dunno, lasts 8 seconds) that calls a faster casting snipe animation. The slower snipe also has a 75% chance of recharging itself instantly while the faster snipe has a 30% chance of recharging itself instantly. The result? Slow charge followed by *HIT!* *pop* Snipe is recharged quick snipe hit *HIT!* there might be a chance you can pull that off again for 3 strong strikes in a row or even 4 but that lower % chance (or a miss) will eventually kill that streak. The cost? Snipes are still pretty costly and you have to manage the hit in the first place. Chance is still a factor. Me personally, I just love the look of some of the snipes and the prospect of a volley of Proton Volleys or a barrage of Blazing Bolts sounds like it'd be awfully mean and painful. |
I was just playing a Stalker with the new AS mechanic, and it occurred to me that snipe attacks would benefit from the same treatment. Namely, the drawn out attack does high damage but that the power could be used as a regular attack as well. It would make a snipe usable more often, making it less situational like the changes to AS do. I don't know how to differentiate status for ranged attacks in the same way Hide works, but maybe there is some way to do it. Distance to nearest enemy maybe: farther than 40 yards gets full snipe animation and damage, closer and it's a faster attack with slightly less damage but not interruptible.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide