NPC doubles don't detoggle when mezzed
By
Bloodspeaker,
Posted on: 2012-05-09 21:50 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
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Player Characters have Human Intelligence as their advantage. NPCs don't lose offensive toggles and can't get 'locked' as a result. Quit complaining and adjust your play.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
I am running the Field Agent Keith Nance story arc with the NPC copies of myself on a gravity/time controller.
The first thing I do on meeting my double is hit them with Gravity Distortion to hold them. The problem is that my double is using Time's Juncture, an offensive toggle, and it does not turn off when they are held, unlike the player version. It does not even suppress as it still affects my character. This toggle is much too powerful to have that advantage, otherwise players should have the same advantage of it not turning off when mezzed. This needs to be fixed or we players need to have our offensive toggles stay on even while mezzed, and our defensive toggles as well(since they suppress). Edit: FYI, the villain mission from Leonard after Dean MacArthur with the 8 clone army will likely be much harder, borderline impossible, due to this. |
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Not entirely sure why you're voluntarily walking into a PBAoE when you presumably have the target mezzed, but Reppu's point, while overly snarky, is accurate enough. If you don't want to be affected, don't get that close.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
The problem is that my double is using Time's Juncture, an offensive toggle, and it does not turn off when they are held, unlike the player version. It does not even suppress as it still affects my character.
This toggle is much too powerful to have that advantage, otherwise players should have the same advantage of it not turning off when mezzed. |
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| FYI, the villain mission from Leonard after Dean MacArthur with the 8 clone army will likely be much harder, borderline impossible, due to this. |
Adapt and overcome.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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No, it does not need to be fixed. It is working as intended. And, it does NOT make the NPCs too powerful. And the players should not get this.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
The problem is that my double is using Time's Juncture, an offensive toggle, and it does not turn off when they are held, unlike the player version. It does not even suppress as it still affects my character.
This toggle is much too powerful to have that advantage, otherwise players should have the same advantage of it not turning off when mezzed. This needs to be fixed or we players need to have our offensive toggles stay on even while mezzed, and our defensive toggles as well(since they suppress). |
You see, the NPCs are dumber than a box of hammers. Therefore, they are allowed (i.e. DESIGNED) to cheat. A perfect example would be the Carnies who can attack while phased.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
1) The NPC leadership toggles detoggle when mezzed. Obviously, there are instances of them working properly. I believe the radiation emission debuff toggles work the same.
2) The enemy NPCs run into melee with you. You don't have to run in when they can close the distance for you, either when there are too many to mez or the mez misses.
3) If the NPCs can do it then the players should be able to do it.
I don't care if you sue the EXCUSE "the NPCs are dumb". It breaks immersion, and really bugs many of us players, when NPCs have abilities that we players can't get even as incarnates.
It does not make sense.
(Edit: After all, "if it happened once, it can happen again" is pretty much a universal law. If a player or NPC has a certain power then another can, and very likely does, have it as well. That goes triple for NPCs that are not unique.)
Also 4) The NPC is meant to be a copy/clone of my character. It should behave the exact same or it isn't a copy/clone.
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Yeah, tell that to all the NPCs out there with invalid powerset combos, or AoE versions of player ST attacks. Sorry, but until AI gets a lot better, NPCs will have to continue to cheat like crazy (they cheat in most games, especially strategy games).
| 3) If the NPCs can do it then the players should be able to do it. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Yes we should all have Zeus Lightning.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
3) If the NPCs can do it then the players should be able to do it.
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
I also think that they converted a lot of players' toggle powers into "click" powers with a set duration when giving them to NPCs. That might be what's going on here.
Or maybe it's still just a toggle but they just flagged it wrong or something. Might as well send in a bug report to be safe.
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What's stopping you from bringing along some friends to even the odds?
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
FYI, the villain mission from Leonard after Dean MacArthur with the 8 clone army will likely be much harder, borderline impossible, due to this.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Because that is at odds with the main goal, whining. C'mon CGMan, catch up!
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
What's stopping you from bringing along some friends to even the odds?
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You might want to pack a snack lunch for your wait on the Hamidon Power Set to be released. |
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
3) If the NPCs can do it then the players should be able to do it.
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Seriously, expecting NPC = PC is unrealistic. NPCs are meant to be challenges to be overcome not equal contestants competing against players on an even field. There are countless examples of NPCs doing things that PCs can't. That's part of the game. Balance is not the same as "exactly the same as players".
In an obstacle course, you expect the walls you have to climb to be taller than you. Consider NPCs to be walls to climb rather than players to compete against.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
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Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
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Firstly, I don't think they do. They definitely cycle them on and off randomly, whether mezzed or not.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
1) The NPC leadership toggles detoggle when mezzed. Obviously, there are instances of them working properly. I believe the radiation emission debuff toggles work the same.
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Secondly, since the Leadership toggles are not offensive toggles, they should NOT detoggle when mezzed FOR ANYONE. So that would not be working properly.
Bad example.
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| 2) The enemy NPCs run into melee with you. You don't have to run in when they can close the distance for you, either when there are too many to mez or the mez misses. |
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3) If the NPCs can do it then the players should be able to do it. I don't care if you sue the EXCUSE "the NPCs are dumb". It breaks immersion, and really bugs many of us players, when NPCs have abilities that we players can't get even as incarnates. |
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| Also 4) The NPC is meant to be a copy/clone of my character. It should behave the exact same or it isn't a copy/clone. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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That really was all you needed to say the first time around. Having established that you don't actually care what input others might have here means that you're really just here to cry and stomp your feet.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
1)I don't care [snipped]
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Immersion? Exact duplicates? How about the fact that you have travel powers, while your duplicates/clones don't. Nor do they have any of your other pool powers. They didn't go to Warburg to get nukes. They didn't go to Bloody Bay to get Shivans. They didn't collect several dozen badges and their attendant accolades. None of their powers have enhancements or IO set bonuses. They can't use inspirations. And while this might be a bit of a stretch, they don't have a living, thinking being at the controls.
The irony of you demanding "fairness" when you have the opponent so hopelessly outclassed is astounding.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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1) We're "super"-people. We're supposed to completely out-class minions and lieutenants and even bosses.|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
The irony of you demanding "fairness" when you have the opponent so hopelessly outclassed is astounding.
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2) I can't mez every enemy at once so the others will still be able to come after me.(Edit: as gravity/time they can mez me as well and I have no protection from it at that level as a gravity controller, except inspirations which I would need a whole tray of)
3) good luck finding a team for help villain side for that clone army mission, especially if doing it through Ouroboros such that you need a team for the entire arc of actual villain alignments(rogue included).
4) Hamidon is an incarnate. That makes some sense that this powers would be unique, but it also makes sense that we could get a similar amount of power(example: Emperor Cole/Statesman/Rularuu/Lord Recluse/The Honoree/etc...).
I think it would have been best if players were equivalent to a hero/archvillain class enemy such that we could solo them while fully incarnate players would be equivalent to incarnate AVs/Heroes and giant monsters(which the Hamidon is but is actually an incarnate).
That way we would feel "super" when going up against small groups of elite bosses, larger groups of bosses and huge groups of everything lower.
(Edit: The best example of this is the Positron TF part one, the new version. You get 8 boss doppelgangers for 8 players, and it is a lot of fun.)
And anyway, it would be much easier to maintain balance all around if NPCs got the same powers and numbers as players so that problem powers would be more obvious and reported more often.
Of course, enemies ranked lower than AV/Hero would get fewer powers, similar to how AE custom enemy groups work.
It makes sense if you don't fall to the excuse of "bad AI" which can be designed to be a bit better and is already compensated for with "more enemies".
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Feel free to do so. Improving AI routines is not easy. Also, that increases demands on processing power since the enemy NPC's run on NCSoft's computers, not yours.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
It makes sense if you don't fall to the excuse of "bad AI" which can be designed to be a bit better
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Citation needed.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
4) Hamidon is an incarnate.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I guess you have never heard anything about Hamidon then?|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Citation needed.
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It was a scientist named Hamidon Pasilima who managed to unlock incarnate power through science, altering himself into a giant form of the most successful form of life on the planet....a single cell organism.
The developers and community people have said he was an incarnate at least a few times.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Hamidon
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| In a Q&A done by Razer, developer Black Scorpion implied that Hamidon had somehow been able to tap into the Well of The Furies and turned himself into an Incarnate, which could explain his appearance and massive power. |
I am running the Field Agent Keith Nance story arc with the NPC copies of myself on a gravity/time controller.
The first thing I do on meeting my double is hit them with Gravity Distortion to hold them.
The problem is that my double is using Time's Juncture, an offensive toggle, and it does not turn off when they are held, unlike the player version. It does not even suppress as it still affects my character.
This toggle is much too powerful to have that advantage, otherwise players should have the same advantage of it not turning off when mezzed.
This needs to be fixed or we players need to have our offensive toggles stay on even while mezzed, and our defensive toggles as well(since they suppress).
Edit:
FYI, the villain mission from Leonard after Dean MacArthur with the 8 clone army will likely be much harder, borderline impossible, due to this.