Old powerset, new gimmick..make them shiny again.

Opps..just notice dWaylorns thread, on a VERY similar topic, mentioning a lot of the same sets! Guess that is what happens when you are busy typing a post up, and dont check the recent threads!


Opinions, crazy suggestions, buffs and nerfs may follow. I am not pretending any or all of it would be or could be balanced, is needed and wanted. Some ideas are also regarding sets I have not actually played, going on general opinions, stories from friends and mids data.
Just some ideas I had while discussing the latest, and upcoming (I don’t know if they were a leak also, so I better not talk about them) powersets, how they differ from ‘old fav’ sets, and how they impact on our less played alts.

Looking at recent sets like beam, Street Justice, Titan weapons, Time; all of these sets have a mechanic, a gimmick, something that sets them apart from an ‘old’ set. We have the combos, momentum, Disint effects, and temporal selection which add extra effects, damage, or abilities to the basic powers.

I think these mechanics do a good job at adding an extra dimension, in the forms of play style, performance and concept/ideas. Maybe another question is..Do these sets NEED what is, at worst, a gimmick, to get you to play it (pay for it in some cases)?

Speaking as someone with at least one alt using the above 4 sets, I can say that even if those sets did NOT have that mechanic and extra performance..I would still play and enjoy the sets. A lot. I think that is a good thing, for the ‘base’ set itself.

Next question. Does this mean other (older) sets could ALSO use gimmick effects?

Obviously the answer to this includes such things as:
Does the set actually lack anything?
Is it performing fine as is (or better than fine)?
Could it use some extra effect?
Would more effects simply result in it being too awesome?

Having posed that question, I am now going to almost totally ignore it, and say that I think a lot of the older sets could really use a gimmick, in order to bring them up to par. Note, I don’t mean par as in a strictly dpa, number crunching, solo 4/8 par. I mean par encompassing performance, making them more fun or flashy to play, fitting with the ideas behind the set itself. Naturally all those things are very subjective (besides performance I guess..if a set does crap damage, it IS crap damage) but since these are my ideas..

One factor, that is rather important to me, is that as the new shiny sets come out, I find combos that I might enjoy more, find better performing, mesh better from a concept viewpoint. This leads to alts that I really enjoyed playing, getting left gathering dust. Obviously this partly comes down to making lots of alts and liking them all...but the difference in say..going from my StJ scrapper to my BS scrapper, from combos and thinking (a bit, sorta, sometimes) about the order I use powers in, to simply bashing attacks...is quite stark.

So..after the rambling..onto the ideas. Gimmicks for everyone is the cry! Shiny things for old sets! Now, naturally some of these things, if not all, would not be balanced, involved a lot of balancing, annoy people who like THEIR set just the way it is, thank you very much. Not to mention the devs saying it takes almost as much work to update a set as make a new one...which I don’t buy at all. 7 (for melee sets, 9-2 for bu/taunt/confront/as etc) new powers, all with new animations, effects, balance issues..compared to a few tweaks here and there...
But anyway! That is a different topic.

Basically, the idea would be to give most sets a Mechanic of some kind, related to the set, its powers, the general background behind it. This might be combos, extra effects, extra damage, things like KMs build up rech, you get the idea. I would be very hesitant about giving too many melee sets simple combos and calling it done, because then we go the other direction and have them all the same in THAT way.

Powerset Mechanics, with a general description of what it is, why it’s there, what it could do. Please note, if you happen to have a toon with a set I talk about and it has 5 purple sets, procs and perma hasten, and does NOT need a gimmick, good for you. For the general population this may not apply.

Ice Blast: Generally seen as quite weak in damage, trading it for slows and holds.
Ice Mechanic – Chill Factor. The more you attack with your icy blasts, the greater your control and mastery becomes. Attacks build up Chill on a target, causing it to take additional cold damage as it slowly freezes. Added cold DoT for each attack over one that hits a target, perhaps with a +hold mag effect to FR/BFR with X stacks.

Broadsword: Has a few inferior DPA attacks compared to kat/other melees, Evil Gecko had a thread detailing this.
BS Mechanic – Batter. A true broadsword relies as much on its weight as the cutting edge, and repeated blows hammer at your foe, eroding their resistance. Hits to the same target add a small (say..5%?) –resist effect, that can stacks X times, representing the battering they are taking. Perhaps a small addition smashing dot too.

Martial Arts: I see this as the nearest ‘copy’ set, with Street Justice. The MA buffs have really made it good, but it good use some flash.
MA Mechanic – Martial Technique. As you combine your attacks against a foe, the blows merge and become a string of connecting moves, giving them no opening to fight back. Attacks would give a small +rech bonus, stacking X times, perhaps increase stun chance/duration on a target.

Stone Melee: A good set, with some nice controls, suffers from a high end cost, some slow animations, and being smashing damage.
Stone Mechanic – Petrify. Your fists are encased in stone, and more than that, you can cause things to petrify with your attacks, turning them to rock and restricting movement. This could give small slow/-rech effects, as the foe slowly petrifies from attacks, perhaps with increase duration to the Mez effects in the set, and minor smashing dots.

Claws: Not much, if anything, is wrong with claws. It is lethal damage, but attacks are so fast it can do some nice damage. Still..
Claws Mechanic – Blood Loss. Slashing a person hurts, slashing them multiple times, opening up veins and arteries, hurts more, not to mention the risk of them bleeding out before you even finish. Attacks would have a chance to inflict Bleeding, small lethal dots, and if the target is already Bleeding, the take more damage from the basic claw attacks.

WarMace: No experience with the set myself (I hear on scrappers Clobber is great, the rest isn’t amazing) but I hardly ever see it..so in the interests of more variety..
WM Mechanic – Crushing Blows. Like the BS, a mace is about pounding your opponent into the ground, but even more so. Every hit after X on a target, can apply a small –res effect, with additional damage to the attacks that follow.

Radiation Blast: I have this on a corr, and while fun, the damage is poor. I feel it trades too much for the –def, which is useless after a point.
Rad Mechanic – Deteriorate. Your radioactive attacks do more than just physical damage a target, they cause decay at a molecular level. Attacks can cause minor energy dots, with repeated hits increasing the damage of attacks.

Energy Blast: The knockback seems to be the problem here, and it is a little boring.
Energy Blast Mechanic – Leech Energy. Your blasts of power actually siphon the power from a target, stealing away their energy and making their attacks weaker, as well as improving your own. Attacks could do small –damage stacks to a target, with small increases to the base /Energy component of your follow up blasts.

Elec Blast: Again, no experience, but from how many I see around, and how bad the rep seems..it is not a great set. It saps..but npcs cheat when sapped anyway, and the damage is sorely lacking.
Elec Mechanic: Current Flow. The longer something is exposed to current, the more dangerous it is (I just made that up, cause it sounds cool, if it isn’t actually true, forgive me). The blasts have a chance to apply Current to a target, representing the charge flowing through it. Charges would build up, causing additional elec attacks to deal more damage, have a high chance to sleep/hold, and perhaps a dot.

Fire Blast: I know what you are thinking..’he is suggesting changing FB, wtf??’ It is a great set, pretty much the most well rounded and consistent blast set we have. My ‘problem’ with it, is that it’s so good..the question becomes..why anything BUT fire.
Fire Mechanic – Ignition. When things get hit with fire, they burn, they char, they..Ignite! The basic attacks would have much reduced fire dot, maybe one tick per attack, but each adds to the Ignition level of a foe. Once the target reaches X, it ignites, and starts to simply burn up, applying great tics of fire dot, at an increased chance. Perhaps Blaze could get a stun tacked on vs Ignited targets.

That is about all the things I could quickly think of. Obviously there is quite a lot of the ‘stack attacks, get effect X’ going on..but that would, I think, just be easier..and make more...sense? I also think that making the attacks in the set itself do added damage, instead of –resist effects (to help with hard, resistant targets when solo) would be better..as it improves Powerset ability, but doesn’t magnify Team ability, as a strict debuff does. Effects could also be copied and adjusted for similar, such as elec melee having a Current mechanic too.

Again, I don’t think many sets actually NEED a gimmick. And I am in no way suggesting they get one, just to make them better, performance wise. I just feel some of our old sets could really use a bit of spit and polish, and slapping a neat little trick on each would not take that long (perhaps).

Thank you for reading

An interesting read for sure.

Although I disagree, I will acknowledge that your ideas are well-thought and show creativity. I do enjoy the gimmicks on the sets but I also enjoy sets that I don't have to constantly track which power I am using when.

Nice effort... I dont necessarily agree with everything you posted but you applied some thought and that was good to see other than a rant about what isnt uber..

Thanks also Air. As I said..Id prefer things that fit with the set itself (well, my idea of what fits) than just make everything equally awesome.

Nice write up Mister D. I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions. I like the sets with no gimmick and would not want to see them changed in any way.

I think we all want new mechanics, FX, new sounds and alternate animations for old powersets but... there is only one way viable to get them.
Pay for those updates.
If the devs make old powersets shiny again would that would be a lot of man work with no benefit, so...
Im up for all updates but this one would come with a price for sure.

"My ADD demands novelty! Combos! Buttons that light up! Twitch gamer mechanics! Stimulation! Constant management! Forget boring powers that just work, I'm buried in FX-spam on raids and I still want MOOOOOORE!"

Truthfully, I don't think the old sets need new mechanics.

I think they just need new animations. New animations brought up to the level of some of the new sets, I think would go a long way to get people playing the sets.

Especially the blast sets, which imo are boring except for Dual Pistols (and there's people who want boring animations for them).

Sure, some sets can use some tweaks, but I know the reason I don't play Axe, Mace, and Broadsword isn't because of their mechanics, but because I find their animations dull and well...I feel more like a D&D Fantasy Character using them, but that's secondary to the animations I've made at least one Axe concept that Id have enjoyed if the sets animations were better.

Interesting.

Once you design a game and introduce these powers and mechanics, let me know and I'll give it a whirl.

As for changing my existing gaming experience, powers and powersets that I currently like, no thanks.

I actually like these mechanics, and I'd enjoy using them.