Crab Spider build challenge - with prize!

This is my take on a build. The combo of web grenade and frag grenade will help make the pets perma. I would suggest working towards the ageless partial core as this helps with the recharge and end recovery. With only a 30 second window when it is not helping you in some way.

Your main attacks are there. Though it will be a combo of your attacks and your pets that will be doing the damage.

I would be happy to run a toon like this myself, as the benefit during a trial would be epic. You could single handedly take care of the north path choke point, if you added on the Aracnos Lore spider.

The only power i dropped was the expensive assault from leadership.

Hope this helps your thought process. Now as much as THB. But there you go...

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1599;717;1434;HEX;|
|78DA65944B4F135114C7EF4CA7AD94625B4A4B79F42915045A5B756F08223180C19|
|4A071D38CED848E9669332D892E5DB857448D1FC18D8982125F0BBF8A3B1F3C5474|
|8B8739FFC2482784DF9DF3FCDF7BEE74EEEE25EFCBE9FB1785149EACAA8D4671C25|
|44B15A3D628166AD5B2AE99EEAB6A73C554AB0E214457412BD58C72627AC558560D|
|3759D2C7C31BD94953BD552CD4F5B266B68CE90553D50DDD582A4EABE525ADF97F5|
|0CB19B862543453339AD9D6C2375FAB55B3B39A4A618D8A5EF758EF85BAA695BD2D|
|579D32BBAC97CBFA52A5496FE1A9BA5ECA2E4E4D2C14E7D49246FF1A4DCDBC1721B|
|939617FF69D42A26D4515A1B8982764D0C1F43899A30AF37527A54956AE2262B418|
|56841C0753CCF104339F84BD9542FD24F43B893E43E8338CFAA3E8370E3D9BD4CFC|
|1FD6447881679D2DAC3ECF633DF528C1331CE730ECBE6EA95AC7C5784A990D70D0D|
|EEE71CE387866E68E881863034443E93F2A022DE51FD0ED4EF80060F3444A0C145D|
|E4EAE2F77AE0BCBE6DD003799CE830BC43152D73C2145E7506006489C8F7B483EF4|
|F0A3C781EE006A0750AB07B5C30F648BEFA97990F34530C9BE0F640B719E08BDE0B|
|88F64EB455C6F86E3D6C9D68799F661A6FD98693F6699C42C8730E30DCA1940CE40|
|92CF7330014699B1381863A6682351EC313AC6BD63E000218EF9C42BAC35A183B7C|
|13BCC64155C66BE212D29E4A6BE71BD53DFC11FE01673689B39BAC3FC44B969E4A6|
|77B8DEE93DF017F89B39FC45E6BBFA555867B047DB1A41EEC8439ED59947E02AF89|
|839BEC6CC3C61BEA28B3086D98CE12EFCA57A59D4CB42CBD95DF027084DF949F00F|
|EE019D6D0E73CDE1FE0C2A87DF39FDD1435FF1714BAECD926FB39C6FB35C68B3CC2|
|887BF0BFBB36DDE79E5F017404896A5C34FDF355BF6B73CE495ECDE1DBB659177B3|
|DD16B57B6491A5677C1E99A7E02AF39AC75261F5B96E5BDFB0AD6FDAD647CF4C900|
|A48C7ADD6B36673FD034CF8206C|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Hey PD make the new summarize with the powers to be needed or its not fair maling new builds

Rough calculations show that Ageless doesn't make me break even during the last 60s of its life, but the question is does the extra recovery for the first 60s help me get back up to 100%, so therefore breaking even over the whole 120 seconds.

This will go into my spreadsheets in the morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

after all these changes from the initial post i am out and wont post a build

Woohoo, I did it. Omega Maneuver is now in the build. I had to drop Leadership, but made up for it with a Kismet tohit IO. All numbers remain in tact.


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1610;731;1462;HEX;|
|78DA65944B4F135114C7EFB4536A5B1E2D85F27E154A814A6 D015D992041240A986|
|2891A149BA19DD02675DA4C4BA24B97EAC607685CA8DFC044 81A046A37E109F3B17|
|8A517467EA69CFBF38DA49D3DFB9FF7B5E7366EECC5D3A5AF D68FACAB8903C93692|
|5978B4DE84A3CA96572B168269D48A9BAF5A4925FD595B4A0 AB26AAC6335AA27B7A|
|55BBA86856527CFFBBE78293BAB21C8B665309552F8BBE055 D4969296D2536AD245|
|6D4FCBF4EE54DD7712DA9EAAA960F968DEA4826930ECEAA4A 96B6EBCA0B8AC92553|
|597B691DCDAA6AC251328FA5532BC9BC672A9B8A074F4F4D2 CC4E694B84A7FB9BCA|
|A5F6EA66683C27815CCE23E212C0BD303F021537E6312C22D 8B270E5A4B255F2146|
|CCEC539644C122C16FDF555A7A89D798F6EBCCF06BDE0FBF6 27A686266CE6732374|
|AA57CF606A6DFC9AC271F0B6A5A7AD00FC18A9AD635EEA3FA 1EB8CEAC452FB57778|
|EDBCCB7C46F760434D1B6A3A51B3BE93F357111C9CDFE4384 C90CDA27E93F71AB69|
|896E2E3671FB9A6DFC47B7EA667001C623607982E6ABA0EB5 EB50BB19B55B51DB4B|
|3E2EF6915C01D65AC16D6ACA8D59B8116F23FF46E46C84D68 E9CEDBF49EE90C50B8|
|A6B425C532FE7DA20AD85354B4B88FD3BC3E01838C2EC1E05 8B4928DF26C5B6215F|
|5B27CFB5A5580AF3E81831218ED933061E040F31DBC8BB0B3 15D4FB9AFDE6D1073E|
|EC5DCFB36985B54DB8B67EFFD602AF5D3F711FCC4EC7F0FBE 03DF325F52AC0FF57C|
|E3DC83FF0888190FFE640E7F26FA65B14BB737807A0337780 E8337C15BCCA1DBE01|
|AB8CE7C4C2F4800B18145CEB7FF1C781E5C620E5F0063CC5F E6F2F92CC8C11DEEF1|
|C077F007B8CB0C4F309FD3FD85F05C42382BEDB2E17C47F81 CCAF3CCAA53609439F|
|4D7977E7489508512AE50462B94B10A6546DEFB7214662B76 23F2DE37444825C5E6|
|A42F032B852F76DA958CBB3B46E584549AD7D70AAF6F46A59 BA7316F2F9E2BCE7BC|
|6609F35D88B067BC64D61B023067DC9602B067BD960FF01E7 FD11BC|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Drop leadership? On a perma-pet build? This is madness!

Keep in mind the spiderlings and reinforcements spawn at -2 and -1 respectively. Without the tohit bonus from leadership (Kismet bonus does not affect them) you might as well just put blindfolds on them.

Sorry this is long, but I need to get my thoughts on paper tonight so I can come back tomorrow and work it out properly!

I still haven't done the maths fully on Ageless, but it is looking like that would give complete endurance sustainability because although for the last minute I would still be losing a few end each second I should be able to keep going for 60s with no breaks, and the other minute of Ageless will fill the bar back up again.

Using Ageless also means that the pets can afford to have a higher downtime, so changes the build dramatically for those who are trying to use Ageless, because twice during each pet's lifetime where will be a period of massive +recharge to account for (And permanent +10%). I need to run the maths on that, but I would bet it knocks 30seconds off the recharge time fairly easily.

Allowing for that and the effect it will have on Hasten (Again something I need to calculate properly) means the whole build can have lower overall recharge, and as long as the main attacks get enough recharge in them it shouldn't have too bad a difference.

So with that in mind I have realised that an Ageless build can be so very different from a Barrier build that it isn't really fair to keep them both side by side because Ageless builds will be limited by going for unnecessary recharge so even if they meet my targets they are likely to be suboptimal because they will have too much recharge (Yes there is such a thing!).

I need to do all the maths before I say more, but I need to make a decision on Ageless vs Barrier because the builds will be so different.

I think for the sake of fairness I won't change the competition rules no matter what I decide, but if I opt for Ageless then I am likely to be able to meet all the goals a lot easier than if I pick Barrier, but I will lose out in pet survivability so am still not sure.

Either way, I made a build of my own by switching Wolf Spider Armor for Combat Training: Defensive (And I don't know how I didn't spot that before making this thread lol) which meets all my must have's, but not the nice to have's:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Second Gunman: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Single Shot -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg(31), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Crab Spider Armor Upgrade -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), S'fstPrt-ResKB(5)
Level 2: Burst -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Apoc-Dmg(7), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Apoc-Dam%(31)
Level 4: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(34)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Heavy Burst -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), SDoArach-Rchg/DmgFear%(9), SDoArach-Acc/Dmg(9), SDoArach-Dmg/Rchg(11), SDoArach-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SDoArach-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(23)
Level 14: Bayonet -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(15), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), T'Death-Dam%(42)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(23), Posi-Dmg/Rng(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Posi-Dam%(27)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 24: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Fortification -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(34), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Aegis-ResDam(42)
Level 28: Serum -- Panac-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Omega Maneuver -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 35: Summon Spiderlings -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(36), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(36), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Call Reinforcements -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(39), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), EdctM'r-PetDef(40)
Level 41: Web Envelope -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(43), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(45)
Level 44: Shatter Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Summon Blaster -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(48), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(50), SvgnRt-PetResDam(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(5)
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1570;731;1462;HEX;|
|78DA65944B4F13511886CF0C534A0B484BB943B949E552282DA05B2488440183294|
|18397666C2774923A6DA625D1A5FF401102E8D6EBC64405EF2EFC215E772E14A2E8|
|B67ECCFB1547DB459F73DEF3DDE7CCCC5C3956F168F2DAA890EAC6536A361B1B33D|
|578D2486763D1742AA16BA6F3949A5B32D5548910A232AAC5D346A27D72C9B8AC1A|
|4E5202FF9B6743E3A67A2916CDE809CD2C88813953D50DDD588C4DAA89452DF7AF5|
|1E1D07BC2486AA666E4428545C56C3A9D0A4D6B6A868EDDD6269AD1B444554127F7|
|6C52CF545AFBE3FA623247867513193D1E9A9F189B8BCDA8718DFEB239CDBCDA40E|
|5F609FB2FEF10EF64217C8A685DA36D37711D6CDF60DE62DE069F941325CB571643|
|34928822E47A12FC8A501A40B96042F1258E5FDA2F5BB64D03604B8819065B23601|
|DCDB404F1A5925AC9D23A6AC04E3A73F099234888B8442953213839A79373966DA0|
|BEB215D0BD0A56AC31D7C197D4938B7B72714E37E78C7824E4A1D372C457CA87506|
|BF5305833C23CCC3D1C011D7B17866BAA5CC0FC0E9C639E073D17C0EA8B606F0CF4|
|5233555C5315D7E4E19A3AB8A6BD7EBD5C93775320F716D8F08CF91C6C7A01BEA22|
|67C882B7C1D98DD6BD26AA1396AEFA0F6FEBBCC7BE0C07DE603E643F00DF9D673BC|
|FA01E4784A5A2334A531CC3547C0AE21B07B18EC1D0137C9A799E334B7E2B93C27C|
|DCF9A9F67D04CBB36F42CDAB8D72DB2EBE43977BEA7BAFC2E71F003F323F38B6CDD|
|CDAE4FD8777D06DF926F807D03DBE8E9D02EF327F307D87D94F915CF6897CAEC61D|
|F9EEBDCCF0DB06F997993B902F6AF828FE96204B98F609E7EE237450B71B4105732|
|B8C3E44A06B992C828F31726504D5721CC930AF3536D51F6DF72219A60D767D7ACA|
|CE1222552A40C17292345CA94B2FF5DC84FDB4FF94ECC2AFBDF042105A1B93CF4AE|
|43CB7F73D3397720B1CFF65F4D924E4AD6CCE579CCEFBBDDBE07F63B76FB6519DF8|
|5354CEAB47B4F45AE33B6F559DB7AC1B69EF2911BAFFF009401FF57|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

My last post made me realise that somehow I missed Mag 4 KB protection off the must have list, but I guess it is too late to add it now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Life without the -kb is annoyiiiiing as a crab. I ended up ditching it temporarily when I picked up my glad armor and hated it. Even as a hover crab it was bad, I can't even imagine how bad it would be as a non-hoverer.

I got your PM on destinies and will get back to you as soon as I put the kiddo down for a nap. I'll just say that the destinies are not an integral part to my build. They're just an extra perk for my crab. Heck, when I did the all-pylon run the other night I used Incadescence just for the pet teleport.

I have now made my decision on Destiny choice, and am going with Barrier (As above eventually I will have more, but that will be ages away) because this being a pet build I think the benefit of keeping the pets alive longer outweighs any of the benefits I would get from Ageless (Which can pretty much be covered with insps or pauses).

So, where does that leave the builds so far?

Well it puts me in a difficult position, because as it turns out I have been encouraging people to go for the wrong target, but I am not going to change the goalposts now because it isn't fair to those who have spent their time helping me.

As it stands THB has provided a build that doesn't use Barrier, and manages to meet my criteria pretty well, aside from having to drop Omega Maneuver (I would have to +5 a few things but I can live with that). However when I originally mentioned being without Barrier it was so that I could pick Rebirth for the heal, rather than Ageless for the endurance. If I took this build it would leave me either picking Ageless (Which doesn't help the pets and would probably allow me to significantly remodel the build anyway) to cover the recovery hole (Crab attacks aren't particularly end heavy, but they animate so fast it makes the EPA quite poor), and I don't really want to do that.

My own build, using Combat Training: Defensive which I think was a rule change inspired by Dark Energon has met all my must have must haves however.

So overall I am not totally satisfied with THB's build to say 'winner' because a combination of end issues, attack slotting and dropped powers are giving me reservations to the point where I wouldn't really use that build. Each little thing I could see past, but not all at once.

So I am keeping this open for now, but I should say that I do appreciate everyone's help so far, and I will probably give THB his choice of 1 reward unless someone comes along and blows his build out of the water before the deadline I set.

If someone can meet my goals 100% without Barrier then I am still happy to give the big prize still (And will count Barrier as a bonus), but otherwise I would prefer people to concentrate on 40% defence, account for Barrier, and try and fit in the nice to haves which I haven't yet

I am also adding KB protection to the list going forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

here is my final build which fills all criteria and the build up proc is in spiderlings and guaranteed 2,16 end/sec (2,39with + endproc ncounted) after enddiscount

Must have:

• Perma-Hasten check
• Perma-Serum check
• All 3 pets perma check
• 45% defence to all positions (Can include Barrier*) check
• Both pet resist uniques and both pet defence uniques check
• General good slotting for everything aside from Shatter Armor, which is just a filler power so can be swapped if necessary, or used as a mule check
• 95% chance to hit +3's with all powers including Web Envelope (Which will accept minimal slotting as it is just for the -fly) check
• Achilles' Heel procs in Single Shot, Burst and Heavy Burst check
• Catalysed ATIO proc in Heavy Burst (The other parts of the set can be elsewhere but with also needing an Achilles' Heel proc it is most likely best to use 5 parts here) check
• Muscalature Alpha (This is what makes the build really hard) check
• Gapless single target attack chain of Bayonet>Single Shot>Burst>Single Shot check
• 'Decent' endurance, so no neglecting stamina check
• Mag 4 KB protection check

• Soulbound Allegiance proc in Summon Spiderlings check

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1572;737;1474;HEX;|
|78DA65944B4F13511886CFB4534B0B484BB9434BA9542E85DA0174658204912860C|
|012356E9AB19DD02675DA4C4BA24BFF811708A05BAF1B1315C4EBC21F62A2EEBC20|
|46D16DFD98F72B8EB68B3EE7BCE7BB9ECBCC5C3E5EF368F2EAA8909AC6B36AA1901|
|833D4645ACF1512F15C3695D10CE769B5B868A859BB10A236AE25737A2A38B9A85F|
|52752729E1FFCD0BD17143BD9888E73329CD288BE17943CDE8197D2131A9A616B4E|
|2BF46E545EF493DAD199A5E8C960735B3B95C363AADA9795A769B93785ED3527565|
|9DDC0BE94CBED69C9FC82CA48B64D83491CF24A36727C6E613336A52A3BF425133A|
|EB450B9FDC2FA2B39C45B9B103E59D86ED3B447168115E62A185C63DE029F541325|
|D3D72686684B14F26D26C12F0BB905B4954D28BEC4F1F70DD84CDBB641B023CA8C8|
|101056CA23DB523BE646F944CAD2B4053C52542B4E6E0354704DA3EA64C70724E27|
|E7AC5A437D554BA07B19AC5961AE822FA82717E2DA5D9CD3CD39EB1B30573C12F29|
|15C8D3C72F5106AAE1F061B469887B99723A063F7E2C0C75E3B4B08C962FF1CF30C|
|E889835E6AA28EF7B78E6BF1702D5D5CC36E9F5EAEC1BB2E906B036C79C6DC04DB9|
|E832FA9681FE20A5F17E2BD22AD119AA3F10E6A1DB8CBBC070EDE673E603E045F93|
|6F33C76B1E448EA7A4B572EDAD313E3B05EC1E01D7C9A61D36727B00FB1FEC007BF|
|C605F2733086E928F9F73F9794FDA69D6893D109DDCFB06D985F80E84BE403BF099|
|F995B905766F33C7D1CF1BF20DB36F781BDAC11DE64FE60FB0E718F313DEC40E95D|
|9CBBEBDD7505FDF75B0FF06F32673091C58061FD3C588701F91A304D92E7E53BC28|
|C78BBEB3996FEAD07BE607E6475019B59967A9FC423FF5743962BC57313EE70E79E|
|FBD0BD106BB7EAB56A29F8855284A85325CA18C542853F2DE17A2346D5DE55B322B|
|EF7D1D841481E6F2D0AB8756DA72D33A7720B1CFB6553B2599BBFECDAAF5C2EEFB5|
|F4D9282FC6558C169CDB97755E43867199FB78C2F58C6533E72E39AFE00D23DF9B2|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|